The Fallacy of Foriegn Benevolence

[Che -Guevara]

As another neighbor invaded our beloved country, Somalis have again choose to define themselves along narrow interests which if history is any indication will come to nothing.

 

It has been two decades since the first foriegn intervention when the whole world led by the Yanks came to Somalia in response to famine-stricken people of Somalia. If there was ever any benevolent foriegn intervention in Somalia, Operation Restore Hope was the closest thing. The Bush Administration was high on its victory over Saddam and declared itself the sole remaining power of the world. Somalia was to be test tube for America's new world order. Had the Somali rebel leaders exercised some common sense, the country and the state could have been saved and the world's goodwill could have been put to good use by the Somalis but as faith would have it, Somali leaders who were and still are not accountable to anyone including own individual their tribes faltered the opportunity the world has given. It all came to ahead with the killing of the Pakistani peacekeepers and the botched American operation resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Somalia and 19 US Servicemen. Without going any farther into the history, it is safe to say it was this day the world decided to wash its hands off Somalia. A policy of containment was instituted and that policy holds to this day.

 

Any subsequent foriegn intervention was and is simply response to the policy of the containment. It is not to aid Somalis in re-establishing their State or eliminate any special menace facing the Somali population.With no real government, credible leaders and empowered civil society, the Somali conflict became complex and the will of foriegn stakeholders became the final word.

 

The Ethiopian invasion, AMISOM and Kenyan invasion represents complex mix of foriegn stakeholders with competing interests but with one goal, and that's Somalia's problems should stay in Somalia.There is no evidence to suggest any of the interventions was conceived to benefit Somalia and Somalis.

 

With no real Somali leadership that can stand toe to toe with foriegn stakeholders and no sovereignty over our own country, what arguments can Somalis make to justify anymore foriegn intervention?

[Abtigiis]

But surely Somalis have shown they are not capable of solving their own problems. Foriegn intervention is not good, but then that means a whole rethink of the TFG. And I believe Hiil-qaran is the closet that comes to mind of a genuine somali initiative. Why not support this?

[N.O.R.F]

What is the difference between Al Shabab bombing Xamar killing many innocent civilians and the Kenyan invasion trying to root out the aforesaid?

 

One is home grown (with foreigners in their midst) and the other is an foreign military.

[Jacpher]

^Exactly. I see no difference. At least Somalia have come to learn the ways AS operate. Kenya bombing is a whole new beginning. Ironic the same folks here making all the noises in the arrival of Ethiopians and Amison are clapping for the Kenyan air bombardments. Clan must be thicker than blood.

[N.O.R.F]

Saxib, I don't think anyone is clapping the invasion. Far from it. Those that are at worst indifferent see it as a chance to rid Somalia of AS or at least incapacitate them. The Ethiopians invaded a peaceful UIC who didn't bomb their own people (they weren’t perfect either).

[Jacaylbaro]

Who said Alshabab is not a foreign group ??? .......

[Che -Guevara]

Abtigiis....Somalis are plenty capable. I don't for even minute buy that they are not able to solve their own problems, what's missing is accountability.

 

To equate AS with invaders is pure silliness and to expect another man to do your job is even sillier.

 

Though AS is part of the Somalia's problems now, they are not the cause and unlike what many would say they are not Somalia's biggest problem. AS exists because those that supposedly despise it can not or would not agree to sit down together to find a common solution.It's ironic majority in this site oppose AS yet no one eill forego their narrow interests to defeat a common enemy and put Somalia first, hence why many are reduced to many mini-lands hoping foriegners will solve their problems at the expense of other Somalis.

 

Anyone serious about defeating AS knows the answer is not in foriegn intervention.

[N.O.R.F]

To equate AS with invaders is pure silliness and to expect another man to do your job is even sillier

Whats the difference?

[Johnny B]

As much as i share the sentiment of disliking foreigners calling the shots in our Somalia, i am tied by the hinders of sound reasons to agree with You , senior Che´ , that is .

 

Your argument could only be correct and valid given that Somalia was an isolated island whose policies never effected it's neighours and the terror group that you used to support was pure Somalis who had the intrest of Somalia at heart , but we both know that , that is but the case.

 

As it stands today , one might argue to the bones ( and i and sheihk Sharif agree with you ) that Azania and Kenya's intrest are questionable endevours that raise any Somali with healthy mind's eye-borroows , but comparing AMISOM whose mandate we know to Kenya's incursion and the terror group's foriegn fighters gave it away.

 

The status quo on the other hand is only in the intrest of theose who see a prolonged Somali problem to be their benefit, case in point Somaliland, AL_SHABAB and in the long run the neighbouring countries , namely Kenya and Ethiopia.

 

Lastly this incursion will as it's precedent be followed by a save-face bullout, and for Somalis either to embaress its consequences or root for another and deeper sinking in it's ruins.

[Hunguri]

What amaze me most is that, the kind of people who pretend to have virtues, moral and principles. Nevertheless, ignore the facts on the ground. In short, I would say blatant hypocrite. Alshabaab devoid the basic values of humanity. Not long ago, they slaughtered and butchered kids in ques testing their potentials to have higher education and win bread their families.

 

On the other-side, they are all bunch of foreign occupiers. So, if your wick so called TFG government can't wipe them out these barbarians, then some one else which their existence pose a real threat would take the gun and shoot them in the head. That's what Kenyans doing, and you pay the price. Beat drums and shout like Zakariya and Samatars with no alternatives or a clear exit strategy on the table.

 

Intaas hadaan ka gudbo, hadda ninkii Abtigiis ahaa fursad ayaa meesha ugasoo baxday. Oo Puntland iyo Somali land wuu ka xoroobi doonaa . Abtigiis, aad ayaan ugu faraxsanahay siyaasadan is qoraysa ee aad moodid ineey Juba-land kusoo laabanayso gacanta dadka deegaanka u badan ee xaqqa uleh ineey maamulaan . Laakiin, suaasho waxa weeye ma leedihiin kartidii iyo aragtidii aad meeshaa kala danbayn iyo maamul wax ku ool ah kaga samaysaan. Si kasta ha ahaatee waxba qaylada dhagaha haw dhigina

 

NB:

 

Dadka wixii iisoo jawaaba, waxaan meesha kusoo laaban doonaa laba bilood ka dib. Waayo, anigu waxaan ku dawakhaa dadka inta daacada iyo wax is daba mariska isku wada.

 

Regards,

 

Nin-Alle ( From the upper hills of Calmadow)

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

I agree with Che Guevara the Somalis who believe Foreign intervention is the solution to all their problems either they are lying to them selves or are just being short sighted unable to think beyond their Clanish objectives.If one believes Kenyan Boots are in Somalia to better the lives of the Somalis in the southern territories in Somalia.The Kenyan Kikuyo Government would not threaten to relocate the Somali refugees Back to war-torn famine effected Somalia. Alshabaab is a product of the Civil war as extreme inhumane they might be they can be dismantled very easy with the right mechanism and political sacrifices and with Genuine Compromises that could have created a whole new Platform but no one really put in the effort gradual progress could have taken place but it always get's undermined by either an invasion or political disagreement from the TFG ranks.Somalis now are looking for a Kikuyo solution to solve their problems allow noo sahal.

[GoldCoast]

Most clear thought analysis I've read this week. For all the hoop-la about new found administrations and the TFG's supposed gains these are admins that exist only because their benefactors allow for them to do so. They are accountable to their benefactors, not the Somali people, so it would only make sense to consider their benefactors policy goals when evaluating them. For all intents and purposes, the IC and the U.S. specifically are fed up with the TFG, and have even passed the point Che described in washing their hands of the country. They operate solely with security interests in mind, which are quite clear. To contain Somalia's problems and groups they consider as a possible threat. This is not to suggest ia sinister plot, but these interests do not coincide with building a functioning state and government. If the TFG had the credibility and basis to fill the vacuum with credible governance perhaps it could be argued otherwise, but all you need to see is the confusion over this incursion to underline that their hosts have lost confidence in them as well. Decisions are made over their head, without consideration to their position or interest, and I do not say how they have proven the ability to reverse this pattern.

 

The Kenyan incursion whether in response to genuine Kenyan security or economic interests, was not made in partnership with Somali objectives whatsoever. Until you realize that the trajectory of these foreign interventions is not in line with the creation of any functioning Somali state/region, I do not see how the argument can be made to support them. In fact, as history has consistently proven, such developments often compound the issues at hand and multiply the actors involved. It'll take a lot more than empty declarations to prove this time will be different.

[Abtigiis]

Che -Guevara;754118 wrote:

Abtigiis....Somalis are plenty capable..

The truth is they haven't shown anything that makes us take that statement seriously. Yet, it is a so true. Support HIIL-QARAN. It is led by intellectuals and is a grassroot movement.

[Johnny B]

Xaaji Xunjuf;754138 wrote:

I agree with Che Guevara the Somalis who believe

Foreign intervention

is the solution to all their problems either they are lying to them selves or are just being short sighted unable to think beyond their Clanish objectives.

......

Not to be rude, but some of us regard the "Somaliland" project is calling for foreign intervention to the affairs of Somalia, and is a project accuseable of being driven by a Clanish objectives.

[xiinfaniin]

^^ :D

 

Great post. But it confuses the issues as Johnny B called it out. AMISOM is a security arrangement that reflects the lack of genuine Somali institutions. It did not invade Somalia. It came through UN sanctioned mandate, narrow mandate at that. It is an issue nevertheless that needs to be addressed. And I am sure once Somali capacity is improved through whatever means, AMISOM will not be a difficult issue to solve. But equating AMISOM to the full Kenyan invasion is simply ignoring the facts.

 

Other than that I share Che's sentiment, Somalis will have ultimately take ownership of their lands and politics.