Emotions Behind Secession Suggestions

[burahadeer]

Abtigiis;746215 wrote:

Firstly, I am sorry if you feel outsmarted. Let us not be personal.

 

Secondly, the rest of your points are your opinions about my motivations and certain issues you think are happening in Somaligalbeed. You see, the same way you resist to be called a Somalian, I don't want to be called Ethiopian. What you said might be true or false, but there is no point in getting upset about my political philosophy about Somalia. I could in fact have an opinion on Peru. You can dispute it, or disregard it, but you shouldn't talk unrelated nonesense just because you are angry. An anger of a secessionist makes me happy, as you would probably know. Plus, your anger really amounts to the fart a dog breaks out to put out a furnace. It is powerless, it is meanigless. So calm down, and debate the issues if you can. If you can't, then you can't.

No, you really not smart enough!!! ,if you couldn't understand when I say you have to deal carefully with SL.Let me give you some insight since you getting to people's under skin.you once said that all somalis suffered & SL should stop exaggerating .You'r wrong here buddy!

The vicious war imposed on thm by Barre was a cold,calculated extermination.First there were refugees (mostly ur clan) that settled around Hargeisa,Burao & Berbera;the people saw thm as their kin & welcomed with open hands,but as it turned out they were armed & given a mission in conjunction with the army forces to clean these cities for thmslvs & throw the inhabitants out so they be like palestanians.I'm not gona go into massacres & all the otha ugly stuff....You have to read the official document of Morgan which I'm sure you familiar with.There was nothing like that in Mogadishu or otha parts which get inflamed at a later time by the excesses of Barre.Mogadishu only get worse for around 27 days in 91 when gov't started shelling,and most of the carnage occured after he left.

Now what you expect, when you(known esp. for certain clan) start running ur mouth on how there was no genocide intended or carried out & talk deceptive somalinimo toward the same people ur refugees massacred & on top of that hurl insults at them!What their reaction will be?BEWILDERMENT!!!!

You know what? I give you more chest hardware to add to your medals for being soo obnoxious!

I love my somali people,but you pull me into dirt.....let us see if all ur polarisation works for you.

[Som@li]

Great thread,

[Abtigiis]

Burahadheer,

 

I don't carry a guilt of a clan on my shouders nor I am speaking on behlaf of my clan. As unseemly as it may be to you,I am expressing my personal opinions, obnoxious nor not. And I disagree with your characterisation of the conflict in the North. sure, your version is not new to me. I heard it million times. I have also heard the other extreme version. Butmy own analysis is thatwhile the scale of destruction is higher in the North, the intent of the regime was similar with what it did in Putland prior to this conflict. Barre was using clan against clan to preserve power. Those you think were armed because of kinship were mere stones used in this conflcit because of their vulnerable position. The storyline is a regime bent on remaining in power against rebels who fought against oppression. Extermination, i don't think. was a deliberate policy. The regime could not do the same in Mogadishu because it was quickly defeated. If that wasn't the scale, I am of the opinion the same would have happened to the USC supporters. Whatever moral legitimacy the SNM struggle had, I did not question. I am questioning why secession has to be an answer. And also please open a thread and say all you want about ONLF and the motivations you think it has and why there is no genocide in Somaligalbeed. I will give my opinion there without mixing your clan lineage into the discussion. It is a typical northern disposition to indulge in your-clan vs my clan sort of argument.

 

For your information, I have never crossed the border of Somalia before the fall of Siyad Barre. So, you are wrong to think I am one of those who were cleansing your clan. I have also in the past spoke ill of the refugees you talk about here and the negative role they played. Can you ever look at SNM and tell us anything wrong they did? No. Speaking against your clan is crime in Somali mindset.

[burahadeer]

What SNM did?

I tell you what started snm was oppression...if they did some,mostly it was revenge & neva the scale of the gov't.If you wana talk about it,fine,but I give few crimes committed by gov't.

1- 39 army officers shot at the border near wajale as they came back from the front in Ethiopia in 1977( 1 star to colonel & all where northeners),it shook the population on how the guys fighting the enemy met such fate.

2- 50 people shot in firing squad at one time in Burao(teachers,business people,chiefs etc)

3-40 people picked from their homes one night

in Mogadishu & slaughtered in Gazira.That brought the suspension of aid by the U.S.

just a few.....you can't equate the enormity & scale of horrific acts by the gov't to may be few revenges by snm which is no where near that scale.

what about whole cities bombed; millions went to refugee camps;100,000s dead.Come on be real.

[Abtigiis]

Burahadeer,

 

You are taking the discussion to entirely different angle. I have never disputed there was intolerable oppression. In fact I have said this many times before. I have never equated government response with what SNM did. But my question is not about the war. It is about the aftermath. Also, you agree those who were killed in the North did not belong to entire geographical area, but to a clan. It is sad,but true. Why would you therefore deny the fact that secession is a one clan agenda? be real there. Once we dispense with this, the next issue will be why secession has to be an answer to the death and destruction suffered? Again, this is not for me to decide and I said if the aggrevied party wants to leave, no one should fight them. But why do you deny me the right to claim those who I think are unionists as a pan-Somaliweyn supporter? Why do you see fault in me saying SSC, Makhiir, Awdal are pro-unionist. If at all we play a hide and seek game of obvious facts, I can well tell you the eastern part of the clan that wants secession are not so-strongly for secession, accoring to the stories I hear.

 

Also, your hurt should not interfere into this discussion. You talk of how I am Ethiopian and how Ethiopia is nice and comfortable and how we are petualant to want to leave, yet you have no idea if there are personal tragedies on my part. Indeed, I should have been the one who should be upset, because I am in the state you were in 1988s. It is far easier to reflect back on an ordeal after it passes than live it. And if you could not accept oppression from fellow somalis, what makes you think we should accept it from an altogather different people?

[burahadeer]

I neva said Ethiopia is nice & comfortable for you & I feel for those somalis( I have lot relatives there).First how you started ur threads were provocative to say the least but let me go into the gist.I know truth hurts & there is gona be a lot trash talk behind me,but in reality all those regions you mentioned r no more than 20% of the population;if a referendum were to be taken tomorrow it will easily pass if majority wish so.One thing you have to know is the majority believes those otha unionists are so only to hurt them & they were the ones aligned with siyad barre & were not taken any reprisals againest them - hence ungrateful.That's why I always preach dealing SL with the utmost care.You have to build bridges of trust & keep talking.One example ,SL will neva accept the 33 parlimentarians if it eva come back to the fold...everyone agrees it was a ripoff.

[Abtigiis]

d/p

[Abtigiis]

burahadeer;746317 wrote:

I know truth hurts & there is gona be a lot trash talk behind me,but in reality all those regions you mentioned r no more than 20% of the population;if a referendum were to be taken tomorrow it will easily pass if majority wish so.One thing you have to know is the majority believes those otha unionists are so only to hurt them & they were the ones aligned with siyad barre & were not taken any reprisals againest them - hence ungrateful.That's why I always preach dealing SL with the utmost care.You have to build bridges of trust & keep talking.One example ,SL will neva accept the 33 parlimentarians if it eva come back to the fold...everyone agrees it was a ripoff.

I can't speak on this. I don't have figures to dispute this. I tend to agree the recognition-seekers are the majority, but as by what margin, I don't know. However, you would agree geographically, Awdal,Salal, Makhiir and SSC (at least the parts that want union with Somalia) are not small. Also, if referendum comes it will only take place where there is an issue. If there is no issue about secession in Las Anod, there is no need for one. Clearly, you don't want to treat the 20% as angry minorities if the other "80%" decides to go its way. Apart from being undemocratic, it is not excutable. No clan sleeps for the other as you know and the result will be the return of endless clan warfare. So, just don't say what you wish for, be realistic. Your argument also reminds me of the one I hear from ultra ONLF supporters when I say if they don't drop the name, they should at least developed a new map of where it will include. It is clear Harshin, Geladi, Ararso and Jigjiga will not be part of it. The same 'we are the majority' is what I get an answer and other irrelevant historical references. But some do say we are ready to do that but let the others also fight Ethiopian aggression. The other Somalis are not fighting Ethiopia because they are no equally oppressed (in a typical devide and rule policy), and because of the legacy of the clan polarisation in Somalia.

 

On the issue of Somaliland's secession, no one is dying because Djibouti is standing alone. No one will die because SL (the part that wants secession) goes. The reason we cry for union is more from brotherly love towards the people whom we share a lot. And if as you said, you have relatives in Ethiopa and assuming I have similar ones in SL, can you in any way imagine why unity might be appealing to someone, other than seeing it as a relic of Fa.qa.sh policies or the cries of the disgruntled clanmen who wants to use somalia against Ethiopia? What if I just don't see the point of my son asking for a visa to visit his uncles in Hargeisa or the reverse?

[Alpha Blondy]

when all is said and done, somaliland still remains independent. the facts are on the ground. to all those somalilandiid, lets at the very least accept some facts and work on our common interests.

[Jacaylbaro]

Somalia should mind their business ,,,, there are a lot on their plate at the moment.

 

Somaliland should also be left to mind its business ........ for the moment.

 

 

After that ..... talks, agreements, unification and separation will be issues to be addressed once it is the right time.

[Carafaat]

Abtigiis;746323 wrote:

I can't speak on this. I don't have figures to dispute this. I tend to agree the recognition-seekers are the majority, but as by what margin, I don't know. However, you would agree geographically, Awdal,Salal, Makhiir and SSC (at least the parts that want union with Somalia) are not small. Also, if referendum comes it will only take place where there is an issue. If there is no issue about secession in Las Anod, there is no need for one. Clearly, you don't want to treat the 20% as angry minorities if the other "80%" decides to go its way. Apart from being undemocratic, it is not excutable. No clan sleeps for the other as you know and the result will be the return of endless clan warfare. So, just don't say what you wish for, be realistic. Your argument also reminds me of the one I hear from ultra ONLF supporters when I say if they don't drop the name, they should at least developed a new map of where it will include. It is clear Harshin, Geladi, Ararso and Jigjiga will not be part of it. The same 'we are the majority' is what I get an answer and other irrelevant historical references. But some do say we are ready to do that but let the others also fight Ethiopian aggression. The other Somalis are not fighting Ethiopia because they are no equally oppressed (in a typical devide and rule policy), and because of the legacy of the clan polarisation in Somalia.

 

On the issue of Somaliland's secession, no one is dying because Djibouti is standing alone. No one will die because SL (the part that wants secession) goes.

The reason we cry for union is more from brotherly love towards the people whom we share a lot.

And if as you said, you have relatives in Ethiopa and assuming I have similar ones in SL, can you in any way imagine why unity might be appealing to someone, other than seeing it as a relic of Fa.qa.sh policies or the cries of the disgruntled clanmen who wants to use somalia against Ethiopia? What if I just don't see the point of my son asking for a visa to visit his uncles in Hargeisa or the reverse?

We do feel the love.

[Abtigiis]

Carafaat;746346 wrote:

We do feel the love.

:D Waa run waryaa. Dadkaa cid aan ka jeclahay ma jirto. Soo xogso.

 

Aabahay waxaa gacan looga jebiyey SNM baad wax siisaa.

 

By the way, if the secessionsts do not stop this we go thing, another strategy will be to mobilize all Somalis elsewhere to marry two or three from the enclave so that few men remain with this malady and the rest naturally see the futility of secesion.

[Carafaat]

Are you threating to marry all our girls? war they are the biggest diehard Somalilanders. waxa arki doonta calankii oo Somalia xaafad walba laga taagay. front kale ha isku furin.

[Jacaylbaro]

The reason we cry for union is more from brotherly love towards the people whom we share a lot.

Ohhhh ,,, Indeeeed ,,, the brotherly love

 

[Abtigiis]

Jacayl, dadkan ma anigaa laayeey? I have no single regret or guilt as a person. Qawl iyo qalbi toona kama taageerin in dadkaas la xansuuqo. Markaa, waabsiga jooji. Also, dadkaa dhintay cadaadis iyo dulaysi ayey ka dagaalamayeene Somalia hala kala jaro umay dhiman.