An Invitation For Dialogue For Prof Axmed Ismail Samatar

[Nur]

A Rare Offer From e- Nuri Organization To Dr. Prof Axmed Ismail Samatar Of Minnesota.

 

Dear Dr. Samatar

 

 

According to Waa Cusub Circulation by Abdullahi Nur Osman, you have stated that you do not believe in the exsistence of life after death , which means that you do not believe in the Messenger of Allah Muhammad SAWS as an honest conveyor of Allah's message to Mankind, and finally in Allah's Justice since in this life, many corrupt people get away with mischief, it would be unfair for them to just melt away without accountability to their earthily actions, which in turn casts doubt on Allah's person and perfection.

 

 

If That statemenmt is true, I personally invite you to particpate in this discussion to clarify your position on these issues.

 

My qusestion to you is:

 

1. How can we Somalis build a Nation if we do not agree on the fundementals of good and evil?

 

2. If you do not believe in organized faith, what moral standard should the nation adhere to since morals are based on faith?

 

3. What do you see as the biggest problems that faces Somalis today?

 

 

Nur

[Abdulladiif Al-Fiqih]

MSSU website

 

Nur, if you mean it, maybe you should post your request on this site^^^ or better yet, let me be your mediator and bring the two of you face-to-face at ilaaliye's studio in Minneapolis, dont worry kharashka anaa qaba. Just a suggestion abti.

[Shirwac]

Ilaa uu ka imanayo ninkaan aan waxaan ku weydiiyo

 

 

Is there a connection between your questions and aaqiro?

 

I could be wrong but I always find it hard to proof what exists in the hereafter -- but that is just me!

[Emperor]

Shirwac no offence but are we here to believe the reincarnation of persons sxb.

 

I could be wrong but I always find it hard to proof what exists in the hereafter -- but that is just me!

Logically sxb u won't be staying here forever, it means one day you leave this live, well this you have proof for it i think no need to argue, But the very moment day you leave you step into another situation unlike the one before, whether is called asxabul qabur(grave people) or Dead persons by the living humans or anything else you would like to call it, it is simply the beginning of another situation(Life hereafter) that you will be in after you left theprevoius situation(Life here now).

 

Again sxb in English Life does not only mean the period between birth and death.

 

Cambridge Englilsh dictionary:

Life: 1. the period between birth and death

2. way of living

 

The second definition shows it is a situation or conditions exist at a particular time, so there are real conditions exist hereafter as some real one's do exist here now, however you can argue about the similarity, Because the two are completely different in everyway or aspects that your brain will want think here now. BTW, there is no death in Aakhiro(life hereafter) as far as my knowledge of the Diin is concerned, it is Abadi(forever one) no change in there, this means the first explanation of the English dictionary is of no use.

 

He hasn't heard news from Aakhiro, said the dull prof. Subhannallah. He won't, I won't and no one will because there is only one way road policy created by god i.e, all are going there and noway back, old young male female and infants have already gone into that way of life into another conditions different to this one, surely this is something you should ask yourself? What is the purpose of going only that way?, why no one is returning? what is in there? horta there miyay jirtaa meel ah oo lawada aadayo?, maxaanse kasoo qabanaynaa? Do your homework and think again and again.

 

And the strongest proof of all is your creation, the creations of the sky and earth, and the word of god when he says to everything just be it and it is. Allahu Akbar

 

This inkirad of Aakhiro occured before and is no suprise.

 

Just read this Aayado.

-----------------------------------------------

"Does not man see that We have created him from the small seed? Then lo! he is an open disputant. 36.77

 

And he hath coined for Us a similitude, and hath forgotten the fact of his creation, saying: Who will revive these bones when they have rotted away? 36.78

 

Say: He will give life to them Who brought them into existence at first, and He is cognizant of all creation. 36.79

 

The same Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold! ye kindle therewith (your own fires)! 36.80

 

Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth able to create the like of them? Yea! and He is the Creator (of all), the Knower. 36.81

 

Verily, when He intends a thing, His Command is, "be", and it is! 36.82

 

Therefore glory be to Him in Whose hand is the kingdom of all things, and to Him you shall be brought back". 36.83

 

------------------------------------------------

 

 

Allow nahanuuni

[Nur]

Ilaaaliye Abti

 

The Professor represented the new "enlightened" intellectuals emerging after a long dormant period in the west. On a level playing ground, truth will surface.

 

To doubt that we will be resurrected is to doubt that there is a purpose in life, I wonder what the professor is trying to do if life has no purpose beyound filling our bellies?

 

 

Shirwac

 

 

The connection between my questions and the exsistence of life after death is:

 

1. Nationhood is defined as a group of people who share a common race, belief and culture, the Professor is knocking out belief in Islam as a nationhhod Pillar, a unique attribute of all Somalis.

 

2. Moral standards keep a nation together, what is considered right or wrong is embedded on the belief that no one gets away with evil, they either pay it here as punishment, or they are doomed in next life, if one does not believe in life after death, what basis of trust beyound technical verification can we have?

 

3. The Professor may be solving one side of a complex equation, he seems oblivious of the other side, denials do not solve problems, acceptance and risk assesment does, the last question is a trick question, you figure out the connection, I dont want to give more hints to the Prof.

 

 

Nur

[Shirwac]

Reincarnation...what you takling about?

 

 

Nur

 

Let us just wait for the guy!!!

[Xoogsade]

It would be interesting to see the debate between Nur and Samatar. I hope he doesn't mind coming here for a debate. One of the website Owners should invite him by looking up his e-mail at the College he teaches and politely ask him to come here and accept a challenge.

 

 

Shirwac Did you mean to say you lack knowledge rather than conviction, and that is why you aren't able to proof Aakhiro exists? Or you meant to say you don't believe in the existence of GOD to start with for you to believe in Aakhiro?

 

PS: My apologies to Nur. I don't have the knowledge. Just interested in this fella, Shirwac's comment. Very interesting Guy lol.

[Shirwac]

XOOGSADE

 

1. There is no way in Hell that someone can proof aakhiro exists.

 

2. Don't confuse the Professors's comments and mine.

 

 

WTF does this "Did you mean to say you lack knowledge rather than conviction, and that is why you aren't able to proof Aakhiro exists?" mean?

 

I typed what I meant, if I can be any clearer please let me know

[Xoogsade]

Shirwac, You typed what you "meant" without elaboration. Typing what you "meant" doesn't "mean" others will get your point as you wanted them to in some cases. Misinterpretation is possible.

 

"1. There is no way in Hell that someone can proof aakhiro exists. "

 

 

If that be true, How do you explain your firm belief in its plausible occurence as a muslim? Samatar and like-minded people would love such replies because it proves/supports their point of view or conclusions. You gotta have some explanations for your beliefs according to them or you are guilty of blind faith. So, Shirwac, do you have any explanation for why you believe in Akhiro? I am guessing you have good reasons, so elabroate them. You can even try explianing the "No way in Hell", or better, try "There is a way" from your point of view as a believer and extrapolate. What do you say Shirwac?

[Mutakalim]

I do not think it is prudent to say that there are no "proofs" for any doctrine of eschatology, because that assertion is fundementally ambigous. What kind of proof are you demanding (epistemic proof, metaphysical proof, deductive proof).

 

Needless to say, there are well-known rational arguments for and against the tenability of the conception Al-Macaad (المعاد) or Eschatology. Be it so, it is logically inconsistent, if not morally self-defeating, for a theist, to affirm the existence of a Diety whilst negating the continuation of existence in the afterlife.

 

The denial of "Aakhiro" is a cardinal belief of agnostics and atheists.

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^ Are you for it or against it? It seems to me that you are justfying the dismissal of Aakhiro according to your little observed western theories towards the Resurection Day.

[Xoogsade]

Alla-U-Baahne, I am thinking the word "rational" doesn't apply to the arguments against "Aakhiro" in Mutakallim's post although there is no way around the conclusion you made considering how the sentence is structured. LOL.

 

Mutakallim will clear the confusion or insist on what he said and show the "rational" arguments against Aakhiro. I doubt if he meant anything like that.

[NGONGE]

^^^

I don’t think there is any confusion to be cleared here, saaxib. The brother’s words were CLEAR. Read them again and don’t get sidetracked by the trolls in our midst. Let me quote him again:

 

Be it so, it is logically inconsistent, if not morally self-defeating, for a theist, to affirm the existence of a Diety whilst negating the continuation of existence in the afterlife.

 

The denial of "Aakhiro" is a cardinal belief of agnostics and atheists.

One more thing:

 

It is possible to present rational arguments for or against Akhiro, saaxib. The arguments being rational would not necessarily mean they’re right.

[Xoogsade]

NGONGE, Thanks saxib. Ignore the comment I wrote but deleted if you have read it and were planning to reply

 

Thanks.

[Yoonka]

lol, the troll in our midst could be Alle-ubaahne, but I wonder why NGONGe is always after the great man called Alle-ubaahne! Intellectual rivarly could be the problem, I surmise... but who knows for sure!