Divorce (The facts)

[Valenteenah.]

I agree with Juxa, it's important to be legally married, under any law. What some people do in order to gain some negligible financial benefit is sometimes out of the fold of Islam, in my view. How can you declare your child is fatherless when you are married to his/her father? That's in essence branding your child as born out of wedlock. Waa wax laga acuudu bilaysto.

[Som@li]

Do marriage prenup, problem solved.

[Aaliyyah]

I thought nowadays there was no-fault divorce which basically doesn't require any reason other than the fact that the two don't want to be together ..or am I mistaken?

[rudy-Diiriye]

For divorce, I just use my cell phone. It goes like this....YO babe-gal, its over.. so holla later. its done.

i never marry under no western law. I always get married via cell phone....with some jungle

bunny on the other side say shyte that i dont understand.

 

I throw lil cash..i keep the xalimoo, as long as she good. Thats how it goes. No fuss or crap. keeping it real.

[Juxa]

Aaliyah English law is quite old and based on the ideology marriage is Holly institution. I am afraid it is not as straight forward as sharia law. Of course provided you have been Married for a year and everyone consents it is relatively simple and cost less than £2k

 

Things get nasty as everyone said when money is involved and a spouse wants a cut or there are children and provisions of maintenance have to be made.

 

Somali, pre-nups are very American, English courts don't like to follow them much but we shall see change within next few years

 

Rudy you are special lol

[Som@li]

Keep up the good work Juxa.. Am sure alot will benefit.

 

And true , when it comes to dissolving marriege, Sharia is the best, no wonder some Muslim communities were recently advocating to adopt and introduce parts of Sharia law in Australia..

 

More here

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-17/muslim-group-wants-sharia-law-in-australia/2717096

[NGONGE]

Blessed, Norf, Val & Juxa are all talking hypothetical claptrap.

Lets get real, people. In practice, what Juxa is advocating is never going to work when people have the option of claiming that they are "living together". The point of a "legal" marriage is redundant here.

 

Juxa's ideas would work perfectly in an ideal world. However, if you're already unemployed or have a low paid job, I see no benefits in getting legally married (note that this is different to getting Islamically married). For example, Juxa there tells you that a divorce will cost less than two thousand pounds (and she actually throws the figure with very careless disregard, the loaded so and so ). Now, why would someone who could barely afford their rent go through the root of paying for a Civil Cermoney, face the possibility of paying for a divorce (in addition to whatever else they need to pay Islamically) and have to incur whatever other expenses a legal marraige may entail just so he/she can brandish a certificate that says they are married to so and so? It makes no practical or financial sense (not unless you're already well off).

 

Where is the carrot here?

 

Of course, I can understand the need for such a legal marriage in a society where such a thing is required by law (Muslim countries, etc). But, here in the UK where (for the most part) co-habitation or having a partner has more or less the same rights as someone who is legally married, I really can't see why someone on benefits ro with a low paid job would bother going through the trouble and expense of such a thing. It makes no sense, no sense at all.

 

Juxa, dadka is sheega ku dheh lakin khasaaraha badan ka daa.

[Juxa]

^^ sorry Ngonge, i dont know where you get this but cohabiting people do not have same rights as married people. maybe waxaad ku qaldeysaa, Civil Partners (same sex couples) iyadaa leh similar rights.

 

If it helps you, you can get married Islamically and legally. if you do so, you will still need to get divorce. marka yaa sheikh my message is just to explain the procedure, ama is-sheegta ama iska dhaafa yeelkadiin ( this really is not about BENEFITS at all)

 

Somali@ I agree if we followed Sharia, then we wont have husbands walking away from their responsibilities and we wont have wives meelaha qeylo dhaaminaya or judgemental family and friends.

 

Today let’s talk about Children Public law (that is when the state gets involved). It is hard to believe but family law is very closely inter-related.

 

Say a couple were going through divorce, the Court will consider the welfare of any children born to those couples before allowing the Petition to proceed. If the court identifies any issues, then it will order for Local Authority to investigate.

 

The initial investigate is very informal, a chat with the parents, school and GP. However if it is found there is neglect or abuse or development issues then there will be formal investigation, this is called Section 47 Investigation.

 

The Local Authority will identify the needs of a Child in Need and try to comply with their duties to for example to provide Services (such as child care, parenting classes, and Drug prevention programmes) or Accommodation (the local authority must provide a home for a child, either with parents or with foster parents).

 

There will be child protection conferences. Many people do not know that they are entitled to take a solicitor with them. The purpose is of the conference is to identify areas of concern and meet the needs of the child. The local authority will draw up a plan. This plan is needed in the event they have to apply for an order in a later stage.

 

For example: xaliimo has 5 children and eldest is 12 (it is illegal to leave children younger than 16 alone at home. You will be prosecuted for wilful neglect) and she goes to a wedding and neighbour calls the police because they are crying etc.

 

Another example which is increasingly happening within our community is ladies that chew Khat, they can’t get up in the morning, and a child misses school or worse attends school filthy and hungry.

 

The school will report and investigations will follow. Sometimes the local authority will provide Services and if it does not work or if the child is in danger move to apply to the court for the following:

 

1- Supervision Order:

 

This means the parents retain parental responsibility but the Local Authority will have the right to supervise. If parents don’t comply with the order or the child protection plan or attend services or take the child to say doctors, speech therapist etc then the local authority will have no choice but to apply

 

2- Care Order

 

This does not remove parental responsibility but it gives the Local Authority the right to control how a mother or father exercises their PR. It also gives local authority the right to remove the child, place the child with foster parents or with grand-parents etc

 

There are other orders available, such as Emergency Protection order which is effective for a week and can be applied when a child is in immediate danger etc.

 

I will come back to Children Private law (caruurta reerahooda isku heystaan) and Applications for Residence Orders and Contact Orders (for our community is normally contact orders made by fathers where the mother is vindictive and does not allow the father to see his child).

 

It is worth mentioning sometimes Children Public and Private law can be applied simultaneously. For example Local Authority must facilitate contact between a child and natural parents. The court can regardless of what application is made give any (other S8) order either to local authority, any person with parental responsibility, to a guardian, or to grand-parents (and other people who need leave to apply).

[AYOUB]

Juxa thanks for the info and I will be refer to this thread, should the need arise. :pHaving said that, I agree with nomads who think you should never use divorce to pitch a marriage. Poor saleswomanship on your part. Great thread nevertheless.

[Juxa]

who is pitching for marriage? divorce is part of life.. it is important people know what is waiting for them, should as you said the need arise.

 

No point being doqon and walking thro life seeking eternal love.

[Blessed]

What's your point, NG? It would be more appropriate for a Muslim to be married in the eyes of the law than to claim to 'live together' or worse pretend to be a promiscuous hijaabi. Poverty waa sheeko kale. Plus cayrta is meant to be used as a stepping stone, not a way of life.

And a civil ceremony is cheaper than the tux la kireysto for that Hilton wedding, who are we kidding here..

[NGONGE]

^^ Yes but the civil cermony is not touted here as an alternative to the Hilton wedding, it's an addition ayeeyo.

My point is that Juxa is trying to sell caviar in the dadaab refugee camp dee.

 

Why would it be better for a Muslimt o be married in the eyes of the law, ayeeyo? What difference does it make in this day and age? "We are together and we follow our own Islamic way of marraige" should suffice. Of course, for me and you, Juxa's ideas make perfect sense (since both partners work and are trying to be..err..upwardly mobile). But, we are talking about the vast majority of Somalis. I am being practical here (and maybe, like Juxa, my job is rubbing off on me), I don't think it's financially sound to waste money on something that does not offer any useful returns.

[Juxa]

Ngonge you need to stop saying i am selling something here? civil ceremony is needed if you wish to register your marriage, i have given you an alternative which is marry at licenced mosque if the civil ceremony is what you object to, mind you regardless of which you will still need to get divorced legally.

 

I only mentioned about is-sharciyeynta because it has many benefits. first is preserving the dignity of the somali women, i dont expect you to understand but is heart breaking when you have to attend an interview and explain something that is precious and private.

 

Things should be done correctly by all of us. one final note, my job does not rub on me, in fact i could do something billable now but i thought i will explain a procedure

 

ps: i was going to tell you how to keep things hidden, trust funds, off shore accounts ( altho i have a feeling you already know this). now he will claim inaan ahay sensitive

[Thierry.]

It is a sad case but Ngonge is speaking about the reality on the ground, unless there is some tangible benefit (Financial rewards etc) the majority of our brethrens in the UK will not go out of their way to formalise their matrimony in eyes of the state.

[NGONGE]

^^ Wan is fahmi waynay, Juxaay.

 

There are different groups of poeple that this applies to here:

 

Group one: Kuwa is qariya for financial gains - this group has nothing to win by following your idea of marraige (although it is best for them to come clean).

 

Group two: Kuwa is sheegay but don't earn enough to win all the extra benefits that legally declaring their marriage would entail.

 

Group three is obviously the one that is loaded enough to worry about the name of the person on the deeds of the house, the inheritance, the pensions and the like.

 

Your thread seems to only apply to the third group and not the first two. Worse still, since the divorce proceedings are so complicated and costly (yes, two grand is a lot of money) it is not likely to appeal to group two at all.

 

The dignity of Somali women is only exposed in Group One (kuwa is qariya). Group Two & Three can proudly claim to be married yet produce no "legal" British documents nor does that matter to them much, since they are married in the eyes of god and those of their faith.

 

So, again, where is the carrot for the majority of Somalis today?

 

p.s.

Your job is rubbing off on you was meant that you are looking at it from a legal point of view and I am just trying to cut costs. Wax fahan.