The Premier League 2011/12

[NGONGE]

^^ Yes, very good. But it's early days.

 

Norf,

 

Lets continue our talk about Carroll badow yaho.

 

Before I begin though, I have to give you (and all readers) a bit of advice about watching the game. When you can (for you're hardly watching it LIVE) try to view the entire image on your screen and do not follow only the ball (which has always been your downfall, saaxib).

 

Now, is it a coincidance that a player costing 35 million and another costing 50 million are both labelled flops by know-nothing football fans? Why would Torres suddenly turn into rubbish and why is Carroll not scoring similar goals to those he scored in his Newcastle day?

 

Norf and those that follow British media will argue that one lost his touch and the other did not have it to begin with. But I beg to differ. Torres is still the same lethal goalscorer he's always been but the poor man has swapped the brilliance of Gerrard & Alonso with the plodding play of Lampard & Malouda. Carroll replaced the direct play of Newcastle with the mechanical play of Adam's Liverpool. But have both players been playing badly? I don't think so.

 

A number nine's job is to occupy the defenders, win headers and link up play. Granted that Torres (being Spanish) does not play in the classic style of a British number nine (e.g. Shearer), however, the main requirements still apply. Now, a number nine alone can not create and score his own goals. He requires a NUMBER TEN to create the play and present him with the opportunities. Failing that, he requires the rest of his team to make the space for him or even benefit from the space HE MAKES.

 

Carroll for Liverpool, has been occupying oppostion defenders and keeping them busy by simply appearing in the box. However, none of his team mates (apart from Suarez) ever burst into the box or run into spaces to confuse the opposition defences. Liverpool's style of play is mechanical and predictable (though very good at times). It is why we create all those endless chances, but are these chances clear cut ones? Actually, for the most part, they are not. They are hurried shots or lucky bounces due to defenders mistakes.

 

So why does Carroll look bad, you ask? Well, I personally don't think he does. I believe him to be a very good player who has been playing well but not scoring. Those that follow the ball would beg to differ and I understand where they're coming from. But I also would like them to understand how football works.

 

Riena passes the ball to Agger. Agger passes it to Adam. Adam passes it to Enrique. Enrique gives it back to Adam. Adam passes it to Downing. Downing takes his time before crossing the ball into the box where only Suarez & Carroll are trying to compete with four defendrs and the keeper. The ball gets kicked away! Notice a problem? See why Carroll can't do it?

 

Again, those that follow the ball argue that Carroll does not move! How does he not move when more often than not Suarez is the furthest player forward when an attack starts yet Carroll is found in the box when an attack is repelled? How does he not move when he is almost always in the box when crosses come in? I mean have you not heard of OFFSIDE? The man does not sit in that box waiting for the ball to return, you know (this is not park football)

 

In his Newcastle days, Carroll scored plenty of goals because Barton was quick in making the crosses that allowed Carroll that couple of seconds head start over the defenders. Nolan was instantly in the box to benefit from the knockdowns that Carroll made and the rest of the midfield players would attempt to burst into the box at every given opportunity thus occupying an opposition defender and allowing Carroll the space to do his thing.

 

Today, becuase there are no runners from midfield and becuase the playmakers are not quick enough or subtle enough with their passing, Carroll finds himself surrounded by the entire backline of the opposition and is accused by the likes of Norf of lacking in skill, intelligence or ability. But that's not how football works, saaxib. It is a team sport and the team, for now, has not yet worked out how to quicken the pace in the final third. Adam, Downing, Henderson & Enrique need to give the opposition the run around and keep them guessing as to the next pass. That's when Carroll is going to start scoring for fun (which he will).

 

p.s.

Chelsea's AVB seems to have worked that one out and has been dropping Lampard & Mikel as much as he could. The team's attack play (with and without Torres) has improved as a result. In addition, with Mata, Meriles and Ramierz willing to run into the box, opposition defenders have been given plenty to think about thus allowing Torres/Drogba and that young kid the time and space to create (like the goal this weekend) or score goals.

 

Bahasha barta.

[N.O.R.F]

What a load of tosh.

 

The chances are there. They are being created. The problem is no one is scoring them.

 

http://www.eplindex.com/measuring-liverpool-chance-conversion-concerns/

 

http://www.eplindex.com/microcosm-liverpool-11-blackburn/

 

Carroll is useless doing most things. Torres just needs games.

[NGONGE]

^^ That's it?

[N.O.R.F]

^Dee ha. You're sounding more like the English journeys

 

I added a bit and posted a couple of links.

[NGONGE]

^^ The English pundits who (like you) say Carroll is a rubbish player?

Anyway, your stats don't contradict what I am saying here. I can not see how you could dispute any of my argument. Bal wax sheeg.

[N.O.R.F]

I will and those stats do contradict your post.

 

Carroll for Liverpool, has been occupying oppostion defenders and keeping them busy by simply appearing in the box. However, none of his team mates (apart from Suarez) ever burst into the box or run into spaces to confuse the opposition defences. Liverpool's style of play is mechanical and predictable (though very good at times). It is why we create all those endless chances, but are these chances clear cut ones? Actually, for the most part, they are not. They are hurried shots or lucky bounces due to defenders mistakes.

 

So why does Carroll look bad, you ask? Well, I personally don't think he does. I believe him to be a very good player who has been playing well but not scoring. Those that follow the ball would beg to differ and I understand where they're coming from. But I also would like them to understand how football works.

 

Riena passes the ball to Agger. Agger passes it to Adam. Adam passes it to Enrique. Enrique gives it back to Adam. Adam passes it to Downing. Downing takes his time before crossing the ball into the box where only Suarez & Carroll are trying to compete with four defendrs and the keeper. The ball gets kicked away! Notice a problem? See why Carroll can't do it?

 

Again, those that follow the ball argue that Carroll does not move! How does he not move when more often than not Suarez is the furthest player forward when an attack starts yet Carroll is found in the box when an attack is repelled? How does he not move when he is almost always in the box when crosses come in? I mean have you not heard of OFFSIDE? The man does not sit in that box waiting for the ball to return, you know (this is not park football)

What you're saying here that he or the other strikers have not been presented with goal scoring chances. The stats and analysis say different. Our build up play has been generally good (see how easy we got through City?). Its the finishing. With Carrol its also the movement, passing and anticipating.

 

Wax la kaalay ninyow bahasha maa ciyaari jirin'e. Heard you was good keeper though

[NGONGE]

^^ "bahasha ma ciyaari jirin'e" is a tired old excuse, saaxib. I played it as much as you did, once upon a time. But I wasn't obsessed with playing as much as you were. Regardless, AVB bahasha mo ciyaari jirin and here he is managing one of the biggest clubs in the world, not to mention Madrid's old 'translator'. Wax fahan.

 

As for the stats. They do not contridict what I am saying (for I have not denied that we are creating chances). The problem, which I've already explained above, is that our chances are PREDICTABLE and hurried (why else would we hit the woodwork over eighteen times?).

 

Adigu you boast about having "played" the game but you display an alarming lack of understanding of how football actually works and the importance of space. You argue that Carroll "does not move" but ignore the fact that the actual style of play is not 'fluid' enough to require the type of movement that an old style BRITISH number nine to actually move in the way you want.

 

Watch our games, saaxib. We play in a very structured way with hardly any through balls slipped through, any dribbling and very little shooting from outside the box. When you play against teams that "park the bus" you need a little more invention and magic that we greatly lack. Our game is based upon the defenders passing it to the guys in the middle who in turn pass it to the winger/full back who goes on and crosses. It is training ground stuff that any well drilled team should be able to cope with (which is what happened with Norwich, Swansea, Fulham, Stoke & even City/United).

 

The only time I can remember something out of the ordinary is when Adam made that pass for Johnson against Chelsea. It was all about time and space; the pass was made quick enough to give Johnson the space to run at the Chelsea defence BEFORE they could organise themselves and block his shot or put him off (as most other teams do). Against Blackburn, Gerrard came on and was making different passes to those that Adam was making. Which is why we had all those chances right at the end (i.e. the Blackburn defence didn't know what was going to happen next).

 

Still, even Kenny tells you that Carroll played well and is counting all the things he did in the game (same stuff I told you right after the game). Waar English pundits-ka ka hadh, waxba ma garanayaan.

[N.O.R.F]

Not only do the stats contradicts what you're saying you're contradicting yourself

 

We have created plenty of clear cut chances but have not scored enough of them. It doesn't matter how methodical or not the chances came about, they were clear cut chances you badow!

[NGONGE]

^^ The stats say that the chances we create and the conversion rate are not the same (with and without Carroll). Why are we hitting the post all the time? Why do opposition keepers save our shots all the time? Surely it is not becuase of Carroll, the man does not play in every game. But in your eyes, when others miss it's bad luck and god knows what but when Carroll misses it's lack of intelligence or movement (how can he lack both when he was there to miss those chances in the first place?).

 

I am telling you that our game is far too structured and that's why our chances are too hurried and forced (i.e. saved, hit the bar or shot over the bar). If Adam was more subtle in his passing Carroll, Suarez and the others would have scored a ton by now. Football is about being a split second faster than your opponents and managing to confuse them and make space for your attackers. Wax fahan.

[The Zack]

With Suarez being out for 9 games, Liverpool might find themselves in the bottom half of the table.

[N.O.R.F]

^He is out for 1 game. The remaining 8 games will be appealed.

 

NGONGE;768669 wrote:

^^ The stats say that the chances we create and the conversion rate are not the same (with and without Carroll). Why are we hitting the post all the time? Why do opposition keepers save our shots all the time? Surely it is not becuase of Carroll, the man does not play in every game. But in your eyes, when others miss it's bad luck and god knows what but when Carroll misses it's lack of intelligence or movement (how can he lack both when he was there to miss those chances in the first place?).

 

I am telling you that our game is far too structured and that's why our chances are too hurried and forced (i.e. saved, hit the bar or shot over the bar). If Adam was more subtle in his passing Carroll, Suarez and the others would have scored a ton by now. Football is about being a split second faster than your opponents and managing to confuse them and make space for your attackers. Wax fahan.

Are your serious? Our chances have been hurried half chances because the way we play is too structured? Where do you get that from saxib? We have been created chances. Many chances. Clear cut chances. The problem isn't with how we play or that the chances have been half chances leaving hurried shots and headers. The problem is down to finishing and finishing alone. Carroll is as guilty as Suarez, Maxi, Downing, Hendo and Adam. They're all equally to blame.

 

Andy Carroll has another problem the other strikers don't have. That is the problem of fundamentals. His passing has been off. His hold up play has been weak (goes down easily). His movement off the ball is terrible. He is always hanging at the back post rather than getting infront of the defender to win the header (meaning the defender gets to it first most of the time). Anticipating and taking a gamble with where the ball will be is as important as the cross itself. Yes the service to him hasn't been great but neither has his movement when the service has been good he has more often than not failed to get on the end of it. He falls asleep too often.

 

Naga daa dee xaaris

[NGONGE]

^^ Like I told you, when Carroll starts scoring you'll suddenly decide that he's doing all the right things even though he'll be doing exactly what he's done since we've bought him. Go watch the Blackburn match, adeer.

 

Anyway..

 

[N.O.R.F]

 

He still has it.

[NGONGE]

^^ No shin pads though. Wonder what the insurance companies think!

[N.O.R.F]

Just realised thats that hyped kid Neymar. Have you seen the size of Ronaldo's calves?