Readings from Shia Literature

[Nur]

Nomads

 

 

As I have promised to substantiate the stories from the Shia readings, I want you to lookk deeper in the implications of the Hadeeths of the Shia in this section, we will post readings from the main books of the Shia to see if indeed they make a holy sense or if they don't I will leave the judgemenmt for the reader.

 

 

The Shia Hadeeths and Stories in thier most respected books which are narrated from their infallible imaams:

 

 

It was reported by the Amir ul Mumineen ( Ali) Aleyhi Salaam that Afeer ( Cafiir) the donkey of the prophet SAWS said to the Messenger of Allah SAWS " Oh Messenger of Allah My father had narrated to me that my grand father narrated to him that his great gran father told him that that he was in the arch with Prophet Noah, then Noah petted his back and said to him that " this donkey will have a grandson who will be tghe donkey of the Sayyid of all prophets and the last, so Praise to Allah who made me that Donkey"

Source Usuul Al KAAFI, Volume 1 page 237.

 

 

It was narrated by the Saduuq, from Reza Aleyhi Salaam that the verse that the meaning of the verse in Al Ahzaab means that the prophet went to visit the house of Zeid ibnul Hazritha for a need, and then he saw Zeinab naked taking bath, He said " Subhaana alladii khalaqaki" Praise to the Lord Who Created You" Source; Uyoon Akhbar Reza, Page 113. Does it make sense that a Prophet who taught Muslims not to look at non related women with lust to make lust himself, where is the infallibility they assign for their immams?

 

Al Majlisi reported that Ali Alayhi Salaam said : " I have travelled with the Messneger fof Allah SAWS, he having no servant except me, and he had a single sleeping spread, and Aisha was with him, and the messenger of Allah SAWS used to sleep betwen me and Aisha, and all of us three we had only one spread to share, so when the Messneger of Allah SWT gets up for nightly Qiyaam ulleil prayer, he would place his portion between me an Aisha" Source, Bihaarul Anwaar , Al Majlisi, Volume 40 page 2. Ever wonder why is Ali as pious as we Sunni know he was staying behin and not getting up for prayer, and how would the Prophet SAWS allow such an intimacy leaving behind the two of them together?

 

It is reported that in Iran, at the Al Hawzah Al Qaaimiyyah ( religious institution) the Saadah ( decendents of Ali) allow the lending of the Vagina ( a man who travels allows his friend to have sex with his wife in his absence) one of those scholars is Sayyid Lutfallah Al Saafi, and others, and this practice is contiuing to this day. Source Sheikh Al Husseyn Al Muusawi, Al Najaf, Iraq. sources with hadeeeths from the imaams please read:

Al Tuusi reported that Mohammad ibn Jaffar alayhi salaam said " Does a man allow his friend the vagina of his girl? He said, Yes, there is nothing wrong with that, he has right to make hallal" source , Al Tuusi, Al Istibsaar, volume 3 page 136.

 

 

The Mutah Marriages ( convenience secret no witnesses marriages)

 

They say ( and they Lie) that the prophet SAWS said " whoever makes Muta marriage with a believer woman that he has the reward of visiting the Kaaba (makkah) 70 times. ???? I have never heard a stronger case for having ones cake and eating it too!!!!!

 

 

It was reported by Al Saduuq that he said " That Mutah is my faith and the faith of my forefathers, so whoever applies (enjoyes it), he is in our religion, and who considers it wrong is a kaafir" Source, the book, He who Does Not Have An Access To A Faqeeh, volume 3 page 366.

Note I like the title of this book, it is like one of those " Do It Yourself : manuals. This Hadeeth makes all Sunnah Kuffaar if it is accepted by Shia.

 

The least times one can experience Mutah to be rewarded?

 

Al Kaafi in the Foruus says at least one session will do to get the reward. Source Furuuc Al Kafi volume 5 page 460.

 

Age limit for women to have Muta with?

 

It was reported by Al Tusi that it was asked Abi Abdulah SAWS " young girls, is it OK for a man to have Mutah with? He Said YES, unless she is a girl that can be tricked, they said " What is the age of a girl that cannot be tricked,, He said, ten years old" source Al Tahdeeb, by Al Toosi, Volume 7 page 255 and Furuuc Al Kaafi by Kuleiny volume 5 page 463.

 

Can a man have Mutah with a woman from Alal Beit?

 

The scholars say NO. Sources Al Furuuc Al Kaafi by Kuleiny, volume 3 page 43, and Al wasaael volume 14 page 449.

 

 

The Limit of how many woman one can have for Mutcah , shia scholars differ, but it is around 100 women max if one has the stamina.!!!!!! It looks I am making this up? it is all available in their books for verification, be my guest.

 

 

Mut'cah marriage with minors without penetration is OK by late Imam Khomeini, Shia source available upon request!

 

If you think any of the above readings is not true, please show me , I will recant if proven, otherwise, I will assume it is an accepted Shia religion. Specially if you do not subsribe to the above scholars of the Shia let me know, so we can get closer even furher.

 

 

Nur

[Baashi]

Brothers: Nur, Mutakalim, Al kowneyn, and Viking,

 

Most of us are laymen when it comes to many subjects and this subject is one of them. We the nomads, if I can speak for them, have been inundated with excerpts from books we don’t have access to, with ahadith we never heard of, and with claims and counter claims we have no way of knowing. For the sake of decency (even though we are all screen characters still...), please listen to each other for once and before you jump around here and there address the matter at hand. We have so many topics on the same subjects!

 

I have two questions, and I’m asking all the knowledgeable folks I named this post;

 

1. Are the books Nur referenced in this post authentic book in the Shia world?

2. If they are, do you consider them as a source of our religion that we Muslims should follow?

[Kowneyn]

Baashi:

 

Slander can not be the basis for a debate. Wherever, the wahhabi/salafi gather they slander muslims, with qoutes and mis-qoutes, use one calim vs another, affirm some reject others...all on a whim. This is the nature of the wahhabi beast.

 

Its utter ignorance to believe that a group of muslims worship a human personality, but you can't get this fact through the thick head of wahhabi/salafi, because the wahhabis have vested interest in such ignorance and divisiveness.

 

A better basis for discussion is one of mutual respect, this is the adaab.

 

Kowneyn

[Baashi]

Originally posted by Kowneyn:

Baashi:

A better basis for discussion is one of mutual respect, this is the adaab.

 

Kowneyn

That I agree wallaal. Now could you please answer my two simple questions?

[Kowneyn]

Baashi:

 

I did! I was referring to your questions about Nur's writing.

 

Kowneyn

[Baashi]

Kowneyn,

Where walaal?

Simple...

1. yes/no

2. yes/no

 

will do!

[Kowneyn]

Baashi:

 

I think you missed the point!

 

Kowneyn

[NGONGE]

Kowneyn: If you disagree with everything they write, find it offensive and are shocked by their "ignorance", why are you replying to their threads? Why not just ignore it. You and many others have already stated your view points on many previous threads.

 

With all due respect to all concerned, this topic is tiresome. Topics can be silly ones, gossipy ones, educational ones or childish and idiotic ones; This one is beyond childish. Nur, do you actually do this to antagonise people? YOU KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LISTEN OR AGREE WITH YOU, GIVE IT A BREAK PLEASE.

 

I always enjoy your topics Nur but in this instance I think you're trying to flog a dead horse. Nobody is going to benefit from this topic and many people are going to get offended. Why be responsible for such trouble? Saaxib, you're not going to be judged on other people's beliefs. If you felt you needed to preach and show people the "true way", I think you've done more than that in the past few days, now it would be wise to let them make up their own minds. Having read the news about your business partner (raximaho allah), I actually think you need to take time out from SOL for a while, saaxib.

 

Come on, people, agree to disagree and move on, don't drag us all down the dreadful swamp of insults and counter insults.

 

Baashi, good luck with your peacemaking efforts, saaxib.

 

** Thinks about faking a tantrum and pretending to exit SOL **

[Viking]

Baashi,

I bailed out on this discussion a long time ago because of lack of basic knowledge required to drive forth such a discussion. If I am not mistaken, I think Mutakalim had asked Nur to discuss issues of 'Aqidah only to begin with but I see issues of mut'a, donkeys speaking, (alleged) Al Tusi quotes etc flying around on every other post. Like you and many others, I do not possess Al-Kulayni's works and the other sources Nur is claiming to quote from. So I am too a by-stander who isn't gaining much from this topic.

[Jaabir]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Brothers: Nur, Mutakalim, Al kowneyn, and Viking,

 

1. Are the books Nur referenced in this post authentic book in the Shia world?

2. If they are, do you consider them as a source of our religion that we Muslims should follow?

I would really love to read a YES or NO answer to those tow questions.

[Mutakalim]

We the nomads, if I can speak for them, have been inundated with excerpts from books we don’t have access to, with ahadith we never heard of, and with claims and counter claims we have no way of knowing.[/qoute]

 

Baashi

 

I had an inkling that most members of the Somalia fora would become infinitely obfuscated and frustrated with the method of discussion. Whilst I am still in the process of reading the "damning" arabic references that have been cited hitherto, I am percieving a most repugnant misinformation. Some of the "references" are distorted out of porportion; I shall post something pertaining to this matter when I wrap up my review of the islamic literature.

 

Nur has espoused a decidedly antagonistic principle on this matter. The sentiments often expressed are biased and one-sided, it is as though the sentiments and opinions are an outward manifestation of the storm that is raging inside of the poster. From the "proofs" provided it is clear that they serve one purpose, if only; the purpose is to paint Shia as a deviantly aberrant sect whose doctrines is, as Sir Thomas Moore would have said, "directly repugnant to the Law of God".

 

This is the reason for my invitation of Nur to discuss the caqaaid. In a "utopian" discussion, I would have discussed the most cherished beliefs of Islam, the 'aqaid, from the shia perspective, whilst Nur would expound the islamic doctrine in accordance with the understanding of ahul as-sunnah. Should the discussion run in the manner which was so described, then many a confusion and frustration will be thwarted.

 

Answers to your question

1)Some of the books, especially Al-Kafi is a widely used shia literature.

2)Yes. However, if one finds something in these books that is contrary to rudimentary islamic teaching, then that "riwaayah" is to be rejected indiscriminately. See the thread "Is the Quran complete"; there are shia and sunni narrations that ostensibly prove otherwise. How dare they!

 

With Salaams

PK