What exactly are Farmajo’s achievements?

[Ducaysane]

Soo dhacyeey

[Gabbal]

I tried to placate the existing reality of the topic as a result of the protestations from the very same culprits in the heart of the naysaying, but there can be denying that good Oodweyne's participation now completes the circle jerk sort of bolstering that is coming from one group and only one group; the Somaliland supporters. Is it an irony that they just so happen to be the only negative contributors in this topic? Well I say go figure. Personally, I find it exceedingly refreshing that those who willingly call themselves reer Somalia citizenry, be they tribe X or tribe Z or otherwise, clearly seem to be on the same page for once in the annals of our 20 year discord and are giving an admirable cyber representation of the sort of shared nationhood and unity displayed by worldwide Somalis in the last couple weeks; which we are all in agreement was brought upon by the government recently brought down immaturely.

 

As for good Oodweyne accusing anyone of passing chunk to gold; well let us just say it rather happens to be one of the more "rich" statements produced yet considering the man's spanning contributory exercise delivered in this forum. It is beneath me to rehash some of your rather colorful periods of existence in this forum but I shall say the hope in the unseen, others may perhaps label it grandiose delusions, continues to be with us through your presence.

 

May I also give a final attempt to explain just why both you and Ngonge are showing Western-bred ignorance (you would be apt not to consider it the lesser of two accusations) or typical and despondent tribal politicking in dual-motivated defense of your tribal bantustan (good Ngonge even saw fit to compare Siilaanyo to Farmaajo and his cabinet!).

 

As simple as this comparison may be, when a child is learning to ride a bike, you do not justify the success of the child's achievements by how able the individual can be able to succeed in the Tour de France but rather the progressive steps the child takes to learn how to sit on the bike, how to wean them self off of training wheels, and how to ride the bike without any sort of hand or accommodation. We are discussing Somalia here gentlemen, which I believe will equate to redundancy if I were to reiterate just what that very statement entails. The situation is clear I assume on your parts as well. Yet here comes a team (I wouldn't just single out Farmaajo as his team is part and parcel of his dynamism) who, for the first time, have taken steps completely bi-polar to steps taken in the complete sum of Somalia's civil war annals and have achieved the respect of the common man, irrespective of tribal belonging, walking Somalia's streets. Yet Ngonge and Oodweyne sit here as spoiled pessimists opining from the comforts of Europe and declare the response of the populace as misguided and totally unwarranted as the child is not yet participating in the Tour de France! What a simple minded and totally ignorant perspective truly. Again, I bring to you the words of Yam-yam in the second page of this topic, spoken 18 years ago at the first Somali reconciliation conference announcing to the stakeholders gathered at that venue "the country has entered a new period, basks in trying times, the situation is difficult, where oath taking requires bringing your own chairs and working from sunrise to sunset, without pay".

 

Any steps taken to unite the public and instill in them shared nationhood, to fight against corruption, to see that civil society is empowered, that soldiers and workers get their salary continuously and on time (even if those finances are donated at this juncture in Somali state history) instead of being pocketed by corrupt bureaucrats, etc etc etc are steps with which Somalis will judge admirably and instil respect, endorsement, and support; response which are at the very heart of the critique attempted by this topic. Somalia's situation and its civil war history has set the bar so low that the rather humble steps taken by the previous government are impressive and awe-inspiring in their own regard. This is what escapes your narrow-minded and Western bred ignorance in labeling the public response as undeserved "valediction...of political accomplishment".

 

As for what I labeled despondent tribal politicking on your parts, call it an attempt to explain the response of one camp vs. the many camps. It may not necessarily be a causation, but it definitely seems to be a correlation. It could just be that you, as Somaliland secessionist supporters, are not as emotionally invested and are unable to see the small signs of hope and socio-politico evolution that we, invested in Somalia's situation, have seen. I will leave that as some sort of consolation to you if the tribal hypothesis is too much to stomach on your part.

 

Lastly, Ngonge you would be apt to cease comparing euphoria based on expectation to euphoria based on achievement. This is the third time you have remarked on the celebrations concerning Sheikh Sharif's naming as president and even went as far as to say "Norf too was euphoric during that time" in your attempt to compare it to the response to the recent resignation of the Premier. One euphoria was based on what Sheikh Sharif could have represented whereas the latter euphoria was based on what was actually representative. The deeds could be achieved vs. the deeds have been achieved and we want to see its continuation. I trust you will not make that mistake again.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Gabbal;730023 wrote:

It could just be that you, as Somaliland secessionist supporters, are not as emotionally invested and are unable to see the small signs of hope and socio-politico evolution that we, invested in Somalia's situation, have seen. I will leave that as some sort of consolation to you if the tribal hypothesis is too much to stomach on your part.

So we should be emotionally invested and only then we are able to understand the achievements of Faarmaajos what kind of Koonfurian Logic is that , Mr cheese let the average Muqudishawi down when he resigned and he couldn't grow some balls.He couldn't confront the problems in Mogadisho and the two sharifs and faroole and he choose to pack his bags and leave for Buffalo.

[Ace of Spadez]

It is a legitimate question to ponder what has Farmaajo achieved in order to garner such support from the Diaspora and those inside Somalia. What was so special about this man? What does he represent? Is it hero worship run amok? Is it an imitation of the “Arab Spring”?

 

I believe NGONGE is genuine when he opened this thread to find answers for this man’s sudden popularity. You have to know NGONGE to understand where he is coming from. He is a very logical, pragmatic and totally against reactions based on emotions. From day one his motto was “show me the money”. The fact that he waves the Somaliland flag is based more on Somaliland’s ability to succeed than Gabbal’s attempt to make this about clan. It is usually big achievements that sway NGONE one way or the other. For instance, it was only when Somaliland secured the capital of Sool that he raised the flag. In his view, Somaliland’s ability to control all the capitals of its six provinces/states/regions meant that it had for the first time tangible, real and credible claims to sovereignty. The years of toiling to work out a bicameral parliament, the constitution, the efforts put into nation building where of naught, unless it exercised real authority over the territory this new Republic claimed. Understanding this clearly, would be of use to those who are supporters of Farmaajo in order to explain their emotionally charged reactions to his departure.

 

So far, we’ve only gotten that Farmaajo in the first six months has done two things; he picked a competent cabinet and paid government employees on time. If he was the President of Somaliland, and he had made such decisions, he would be applauded just as Silanyo has been for picking a qualified cabinet and bringing back accountability. The problem is Farmaajo is not the President of Somaliland. He is the Prime Minister of Somalia. This means, he needs to accomplish more and at the very least have a plan spelling out how to reconstitute Somalia. Unlike Somaliland where Silanyo took over a functioning government, Farmaajo took over a government that controlled very little of Somalia, let alone all of Mogadishu. The litmus test, for any hero of Somalia is his/her ability to bring peace to Somalia. This is what the ICU appeared to have brought, before they prematurely disintegrated. Unlike Farmaajo, the ICU actually controlled a large territory of Somalia, with a plan, albeit not a successful one in bringing peace to Somalia. There was euphoria and it wasn’t the kind that was expectant as Gabbal stresses, but it was based on their ability to govern an ever expanding area. It even had the ability to sway a few people as far as Hargeisa to come join its ranks. What NGONGE, NORF, Odweyne and I included fail to see is what makes Farmaajo different than what we have witnessed in the past?

 

We’ve seen a lot of ululating in Somalia, but very little substance behind it. We’ve seen the Arta powwow in Djibouti, the Imbigathi rodeo in Kenya, and the countless conferences each one described as the last great hope. It appears that Somalis from Somalia either do not care to do some calculus to take stock of events, or as NGONGE put it have a very short memory. Let’s be honest, and understand that although Farmaajo & his cabinet may have been marginally better than the last, in the grand scheme of things, very little has changed. Somalia is still divided; it still has foreign troops protecting its government, and there is no real attempt at reconciliation.

 

Maybe it’s time, Somalis hedge their bets like NGONGE and only give tacit support initially and never give their full support unless they see some results. For instance, for all that praise Farmaajo received and his promise to not resign, he folded under pressure, delivering yet another disappointment for the masses in Somalia. In fact, if there ever was a reason for one to “candhuutiisa dib u liqo”, it was when he cut and ran to save his hide. Real heroes put their life on the line for what they believe in. This unfortunately was not what Farmaajo did. That in short I’m afraid is the measure of the man.

[Gabbal]

Oodweyne, not clannish bigotry against Farmaajo per se but regional bias. Seeing as that your region cannot be separated from tribal sauteing, I felt an explanation of tribal politicking was warranted in your camp's perspective (single tribe-Hargeisa) vs. the other camp's perspective (total sum of tribes-Somalia). Why is that only your Hargeisa folk have a position while all others have a different position? Therein lies the conundrum, but I digress; I have made my point.

 

Your inability to understand the populist movement in Somalia (as the secessionists see it) merely highlights the limitations of your own assumptions concerning the existing realities. It does not point to a weakness in the majority's expressed opinion in this topic. That you think so is attributable to your usual misplaced arrogance derived from pair of glasses that are a wee bit too tinted for society's liking.

[xiinfaniin]

Some folks here are using all of their intellectual might to destroy an argument that does not exist in the firs place. Somalia is sort of that epic rock of problem that could not be easily moved, and one would be extremely naive to propose a six month premiership has just done that. Arguments that explain why Farmaajo got the support he got are just that, explanations of people's perceptions of success.

 

Perhaps when one lives a life of hell in Mogadishu for twenty years seeing his sons get paid on time could as well be (in relative terms) a great victory that warrants all that protestations that got the likes of NGONGE quite astonished and bewildered to openly ask why. It was ironic turn for NGONGE to previously mocked the notion of one having a hope in Somalia's sad situation while petting his worth on the false hope that his tribal homeland will one day be recognized on the basis of Somalia's past colonial borders. He is doubling down in this thread, it appears, to mock the authentic feelings of those who come out to support the man whom they sensed some degree of humbleness and honesty to contribute to the well being of the country, however hard the task may be. And on another level the intellectual dishonesty of our friends is quite palpable really for there is nothing new, or to be surprised, about a politician to have a base that supports him in his hour of need or celebrates his success and achievements.

 

I could not find a fitting reply for the logic of the man above who in his flipped reasoning depicted the fall of Lasanod with all of the civil war tragedies that resulted from it including Kalshaale as the trophy that got good NGONGE excited and drew him ever closer to the dirty goings of Somalia's civil war, including that of his tribal homeland.

[Gabbal]

Xiin, that is a most excellent encapsulation if I may say so myself. The argument put forward by Ngonge and Oodweyne does not exist. One would be apt to call it a red herring which is why if Ngonge truly wants to understand what got those "islaamo" into the streets, he should go back and look at my bicycle analogy and realize the fallacious nature of the critique he put forward.

 

Oodweyne, you are merely after a spar of words, not an honest deliberation of substantive exchange.

[Ace of Spadez]

Oodweyne,

 

I was sure our friends Gabbal & Co. would not disappoint and would attempt to inform us what is behind this cult like behaviour. Unfortunately, as you predicted they retreated. The hype about the phantom achievement of Farmaajo has been dialled down. The euphoria gone as quickly as it came. I’m truly dismayed at the eerie feeling that this is fast becoming grounds hog day over and over again. Part of the problem that has made Somalia’s political turmoil intractable is the constant prescription of cosmetic makeovers. No one bothers to take the long road of reconciling villages, towns, cities, & regions. It is always a short cut crowning whoever the flavour of the month is of the times. Paying the salaries of government employees who control no territory, the only tool for reconciliation being AMISOM shelling, and a government structure that is not sustainable [read 550 mp] and you have to ask what is really going on here? In his short tenure, Farmaajo managed to piss of Puntland, had no in roads on Al-Shabab other than a few pockets of Mogadishu and no mechanism for fostering peace in Somalia.

 

Until a time, yes Xiinfaniin, that Somalia is able to stand on its two feet, one should keep their feet firmly on the ground. It is not out to be monk to behave as such, but to avoid the unnecessary heart ache the constant disappointments invite. Time and time again, Somalis say they’re through with Somalia, until another “glimmer” of false hope and frenzy rushes in. Our very own Gabbal has done this many times over. The consolidation of Somaliland to have sovereignty over all its regional capitals is real, and it is also profound. Until such a time, that is looses ground, NGONGE will support whatever that is working. Somaliland has only expanded since inception, be it in terms of the territory it controls, to its political sophistication, to its holding of elections, to how peaceful it is, to focusing on good governance, to making the leap to provide free schooling for its primary grade students etc.

 

I think it is high time we start using a bench mark before we get carried away. The vicious cycle must be ended and fast. Somalia cannot go on being ruled by UN Representatives. I say this not only because I wish Somalia well, but that it is also in Somaliland’s interest that Somalia gets it act together. We will forever be neighbours, forever have familial ties, and will undoubtedly be affected by each other’s misfortunes. It is high time the leadership in Somalia decide to do the hard labour necessary and be prepared to make the sacrifices it takes to make a difference. There is no free lunch. The glory will come after. To highlight this point, please listen to the BBC Falanqeynta Jimcaha program interviewing Axmed Mire & Ibrahim Dhagawayne on May 20th. They were able to bask in the sacrifices they’ve made decades ago, and that although they are not in the helm of power, their cause had born fruit. One remark was extremely poignant in a reply by Axmed Mire to Yusuf Garad’s probing of his feelings knowing he has sacrificed so much and has little to show for and is in fact unemployed? And Axmed replied it wasn’t about me, it was about justice for the nation and instilling democratic values that we fought for, that I am unemployed is irrelevant. History is indeed kind to those who mean what they say and fulfill their promises.

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

Dhallinyaro, Farmaajo hala daayo, oo yaan la caayin. Waa nin wanaagsan oo aan ceeb lahayn.

 

Waryaa Oodwayne, Mujaahid, good to see you swinging strong again. In lagu xiniinyo siibay oo Mujaahidkii weynaa is dhiibay ayaan aniguna moodayey oo NGONGE iyo kuwo baas ayaa been ii sheegay. Illeeyn weli waad noolayd? Waar bal warka soo daa Mujaahid. :D

[N.O.R.F]

What has been striking on this thread are the protestations on the mere fact that some are questioning the man’s achievements. Granted one hasn’t been keeping abreast of developments of late however the, as Oodweyne aptly put it, ‘scraping at the barrel’ comments are little surprising from seemingly intelligent folk.

 

This is a forum for discussion ladies and gents. Do take part (without the innuendos).

 

I suppose achievement is relative and depends on one’s perception of what Somalia needed during Famaajo’s tenure. I personally believe his time was too short for him to make any real tangible in roads into the quagmire that is South Somalia/TFG/AMISOM/UN. Helping to accelerate the securing of greater parts of the capital, getting AS on the back foot and getting support from the populace in the 6 months or so he was there should be enough to give the man the of the doubt at least. Whether he wasn’t astute enough in his dealings is another argument.

[NGONGE]

Gabbal;730066 wrote:

Xiin, that is a most excellent encapsulation if I may say so myself. The argument put forward by Ngonge and Oodweyne does not exist. One would be apt to call it a red herring which is why if Ngonge truly wants to understand what got those "islaamo" into the streets, he should go back and look at my bicycle analogy and realize the fallacious nature of the critique he put forward.

 

Oodweyne, you are merely after a spar of words, not an honest deliberation of substantive exchange.

Aah! Keep pulling at those emotional strings, won't you saaxib!

 

 

War the Islaamo in Xamar or even Hargeisa do not bother me one bit. It is quite shameful of Xiin to hide behind the garbasaars of these women when he presents his feeble defence there and even more inexcusable that you would follow suit.

 

You keep banging on about me being in England and I keep reminding you that you yourself are not living in Somalia. Yet, it seems that I have made use of my time in England while you have not progressed beyond the arguments put forward by the illiterate women in the street! Theirs is kneejerk, emotional and uninformed. But I extend them the benefit of the doubt because of these reasons and the conditions they live under. You and Xiin on the other hand, do not deserve nor qualify for such an indulgence. You both have the advantage of distance, learning and time to view things rationally, dispassionately and without prejudice. Still, in spite of all of that, you still peddle the same argument that the wailers of the capital city use! I do not need to be in their shoes to understand what they are going through, adeer. I am cultured enough, learned enough and intelligent enough to appreciate their predicament, imagine their suffering and recognise their limitations. After all (and here is another trip down memory lane), these are the same people that came out with their green tree leafs when the Courts were there and also came with their leafs again when Yusuf entered the city atop an Ethiopian tank! I fully acknowledge their suffering yet would view any argument or position they take with total disdain. If, however, a minor miracle occurs and I find that my conclusions are the same as theirs, I will comfort myself with the thought that my route to reaching these conclusions did involve some analysis, intellectual application and independent thought. Could you say the same?

 

On Somaliland and the clear road block that I and my fellow citizens seem to have created in this topic, well what of it? What actual difference does it make? Now remember, Farmajo resigned! My argument, that of the Guru, Spadez or Norf did not cause his resignation and played no part in the resulting protest. The US & THEM scenario you are trying to create here must have an end result, my friend. What is the end result that SL participants on this thread hope to achieve? The only thing I could think of is simple schadenfreude! But, surely, if that was our only aim we would have done it in a more spectacular way (and the material for ridicule here are infinite).

 

So, the question remains unanswered. In light of the recent protests regarding the sacking/resignation of Farmajo, an alert, logical and rational mind would analyse the reasons, causes and circumstances and wonder again; what are the achievements of Farmajo?

[genius pauper.]

this link answers. http://www.somaliareport.com/index.php/post/932

 

p.s. after all, what's the point on arguing over issues somalis will never agree on??? take it for real, ''non-partisan tribal politics, somali lagama sugaayo''

we have to accept ourselves as we are, let sl people in sol share the victory of their election, let the ones from awdal and ssc share their will to secede from sl, let the rest(somaliweyn) share their will to stop sl seceding from somalia, and finally irrespective of what happens, life will kick-on.

[ElPunto]

Ngonge - I'm not sure there is any answer that would satisfy you. My sense is that the support for Farmajo stems more from his character and hopes for future accomplishments rather than what he acheived in his short tenure. Most people saw a level of competency, personal integrity and a geniune desire to move the ball forward in Somalia that had not been exhibited by any former high official of the TFG. Two other factors have also helped his 'popularity'. The fact he was pressured by outside powers(nothing unites Somalis faster than foreign meddling) and the fact that expectations of the TFG are at rock bottom - S/P Land admins look like veritable giants in comparison.

[Baashi]

Xiin,

 

Awoowe Ngonge's question is a valid one and the answer is simply very little has been acheived. Spade hit the nail on the head when he reminded the gallery and I am paraphrasing him that the conflict is still raging on. I share that view with Spade. Farmajo went in and left Benadir as divided city in a stalemate. If TFI's primary task was to facilitate the reconciliation effort and if we use that as a metric to assess Farmajo's achievement then the score is clear. He has not achieved much.

 

Is he a good guy? Perhaps. Has he earned a good reputation among Somalis? Yes. Has he managed aid money more efficiently? Definitely. Still, he come up short where it counts the most. Not a fault of his own though. I expected him to give Kampala Accord air time and dismiss it in toto. Perhaps he did. I am not in knee deep in this saga.

 

There is a genuine feeling within Somalis in Qurbo that the guy is better than his peredessors. He's well liked fella. Why? I don't know. If GOP pollesters and kingmakers got this type of guy on their hands they could make him an star but alas the drama is in Benadir not in Potomac River.

[NASSIR]

Ngonge, What could Farmajo have done better that he didn't? Indeed it's easy to field questions but hard to forward complete and honest answers.