France bids to 'shape' Islam

[- Femme -]

It should be a priority for all the Imams to learn the language of the country they reside in (by their choice). How else are they supposed to help new converts or people who want to learn about Islam? Its very important.

 

How else will they be able to understand the culture around them in order to preach about it? Or against it? Or know their rights in the system?

 

They cant be depending on a translator. :rolleyes:

 

Its freakin' crazy to think otherwise.

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^ So, you are suggesting that without learning the country language, the chances of the dacwah is very slim. Guess what, maandheey, you are totaly wrong. Understanding the country and its norms doesn't take to learn the language first. Tell me, do young kids/babies learn language before learning their parents? I am not saying here language is not an important thing for the process to convey the message, but its not the single first importance as well. Many Islamic Sheikhs have accomplished many things in the west without even knowing anything about the host country's culture, language and so forth. Think about the early Muslims who went to China or Indonesia for business purposes and then became a reason for an entire Islamization of nations! Many countries become Muslims because of the beauty of Islamic religion.

 

What is the good thing of the dirty French/English languages?

[- Femme -]

So, you are suggesting that without learning the country language, the chances of the dacwah is very slim.

YES.

 

Many Islamic Sheikhs have accomplished many things in the west without even knowing anything about the host country's culture, language and so forth

Care to tell me how? Oh wait let me see. They had psychic abliities and transported the message via the mind?

 

Think about the early Muslims who went to China or Indonesia for business purposes and then became a reason for an entire Islamization of nations!

Many of these people were converted by merchants who went to these regions for trade. Those merchants...of course know one or two things about the language in order to communicate with their customers!

 

For the others...they decided to live there...learned the language and converted the people.

 

Many countries become Muslims because of the beauty of Islamic religion.

And how did they come to know about it, pray tell?

 

What is the good thing of the dirty French/English languages

You tell me...arent you the one speaking the dirty english language right now? :rolleyes:

 

Alle-Ubahne:

I cant tell if you serious or just kidding around about your hate for "gaalos" and the "west".

 

For someone who has a thorn in their side about the west and its people...why the hell do you live there?

 

Its like saying saying..."Oh god..I hate choclate...it gives me cavities..makes me fat...I get pimples...Makes me sick"...while reaching your fat hands in the box and shoving the entire contents in your mouth. Its just doesnt make sense.

 

And another thing...this hate you have for christians is crazy...muslims should be tolerant of other people's religons and customs.

 

If christians and jews are so bad...why did Allah allow men to marry christian and jewish women?

 

Why did the Prophet (SCW) visit his sick jewish neighbour and pray for him?

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by Xu:

I always thought it was a good idea for Imams to speak the language of the country they're living in. Or to preach in that language. Personally I prefer it, because I don't speak Arabic, not very many people do, so it would be more beneficial for

muslims

if they spoke in a language they could understand.

 

However, (as some people are attempting) to

prohibit

preaching in a language other than the national one, is just wrong. In mosques in certain communities, people will get a better understanding of what is being preached in a language they understand. To deprive them of that, means that the government sees religion as nothing more than a political tool.

Well said. I don't speak Arabic as well. What the Imams here (in America) tend to usually do is deliver the first half of Friday qutbah in Arabic (language of the Heavens) and the second half in English - for all of us who are deaf and dumb in Arabic. It works superbly because the Imam can be assured that all the people in the masjid understood his message.

 

Alle-ubaahne aka Seef-la-Bood Crew -

 

I didn't know the Hijab rule extended to avatars as well - nonetheless, thanks for the info!

[Alle-ubaahne]

FF, and Wind-talker,

 

War bal suga, oo iga daaya laba dhinac ee aad iga soo galeysaan. ehehehehe . Miss Female Fatale, you sound very smart girl, but don't let your smartness hijack you to an ungained experience, cause that will depict your fallacies and fabrications. Now that you objected everything I said, I've few to share with you. First of all, you need to learn the difference between Islam and Gaalo. Because I can detect from your writings some positive inclinations towards the Gaalo mentality and civilazations. Secondly, my position is clear, I object anything but Islam, period. Does that make a sense? ehehehe, Ok, let's find out a common platform where you can agree and at the same time develop my hostile attitude against anything but Islam. Sounds scary to you, right?

 

Nevermind, I think abaayo in a fair statement I can say the Gaalo hatred for us is reciprocal. For one reason to equip with that statement, I think you're opposing my views because I happen to dismiss your pro-western views, right? , yeah, otherwise you'll be saying (sax aboowe, waa runtaa ee ii wad sheekada).

 

Wind-talker,

 

Waryaa maad iga deysid magacyada aad iigu yeereysid sida seef la boodka iyo wixii la midka ah! If I talk about the truth, I am a seef la bood. But when Gaalo adopt their vicious propoganda against Islam in general, you suddenly jump around and clap for their lies and deciets. Ok, for your seef labood description on me, I can be Seeyfulaah for my Muslim community, and that is realy fair enough.

[Abu Yusuf]

As-Salaamu Alaykum...

 

Subhan Allaah, "Alle-ubaahne", harshness does not get you anything, nor get you anywhere. If you disagree with something, then give Advice in private, and if done in public, then is should be done in a gentle manner.

 

Muhammad (Sallallahu Alayhee Was Salaam) said: "Kindess is not taken out of anything except that it makes it ugly, and Kindness is not put in anything except that it beautifies it"

 

Subhan Allaah, so comments like the one quoted below is not something that is likely to earn the pleasure of Allaah, rather it could earn punishment in this life and in the hereafter, and Allaah, the Most High knoes best.

 

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

xu,

You agree with the Gaalo, right? Yeah, I could see that from your unveiled hair. Please, go and take your hijaab first, then express your views politely, ok.

I used to be like this, Wallaahi, just straight out bashing, and deep down we all want to do that. We see someone smoking/drinking/flirting with the opposite sex, and then we want to slam them with Hadeeth and Qur'aan. Sadly it backfires more often then not. It might work with close friends, but someone you only know off a Message Board, then I doubt it.

 

But I learnt, that when I was harsh, they hated me, and in turn, they turned thier back to the truth. So when I was gentle afterwards, they still had a grudge, and hated me, and would not listen to even an atoms weight of what I would have to say.

 

Secondly, when can we be harsh, the only time I know is when communicating with Ahlul-Bid'aah or the people of Bid'aah, Dalaalah and Hawaa. Thats the only time you can be harsh, and correct me if I am wrong, cause there are many stories of the Sahaba being very harsh to the Innovaters, but to normal muslims, who makes mistakes or sins, and what about if they are ignorant of what they are doing wrong. If you bash them, even while they don't know what they are doing is wrong does it get you anywhere..???

 

Our job as muslims, and if you are a Religious one, is to help other people, other muslims come back to Allaah, the Most High.

 

Anyways, I hope I have not said anything wrong...

 

As-Salaamu Alaykum

[Alle-ubaahne]

Abu yusuf,

 

You said one can only be harsh and that is when dealing with the people of innovations. I don't know frankly where that is related in our religion! Did you forget the verse of Allah which says "the prophet of Allah and his companions were hard on disbelievers (as well as their likes) but merciful to each other...". By the way, what we see here are not innovators, but more like deviant intentful people with some hidden agenda, to spread the word of the west in our people. I can be wrong, but tell me any of them siding with the clear truth of Islam, except their constant intenuation/underestimation of Islam.

[Abu Yusuf]

As-Salaamu Alaykum..

 

Saaxib, did you understand what I said, please don't get me wrong. I hate the Kuffaar, I hate those whom Allaah, the Most High hates...Walaa wal Baraa

 

Having a girl that is not covered as a Avatar, does that reach the level of Innovation, cause as far as I know, it doesn't.

 

Did you forget the verse of Allah which says "the prophet of Allah and his companions were hard on disbelievers (as well as their likes) but merciful to each other..."

Does it say in this verse to be harsh on the Muslims, when thier sin does not reach the level of Innovation, and by the way we are not harsh on all Innovaters, cause some of the Innovaters are ignorant of there Innovation.

 

I am not watering down Islaam, I know that Arabic is the Language to know, and ect..

 

Many Islamic Sheikhs have accomplished many things in the west without even knowing anything about the host country's culture, language and so forth

You said that, and Femmale Fatale replied with:

 

Care to tell me how? Oh wait let me see. They had psychic abliities and transported the message via the mind?

See, Sister Female Fatale, there are many, many Shayukh that have affected the Muslims in the west, without even knowing English, or French

 

To name a few: Shaykh Muhammad Nassir-us-Deen al-Albaanee, Shaykh Abdul'Aziz bin Baz, Shaykh Uthaymeen, Shaykh Fowzaan, Shaykh Muqbil, May Allaah,the Most High have Mercy on all of them, and I could go on and on with names of Ulaama that benefited the non-Arabic speaking Ummaah

 

Shaykh Abdul'Aziz bin Baz used to give lectures in Arabic and they used to be translated via telephone.

 

Till this days many books from al-Albaanee, Uthaymeen, and Bin Baz, have been translated and provide a great amount of benefit to the English/French speaking Muslim, and All praise is to Allaah the Most High.

 

Even now as we speak/type, their students are giving Daw'aah, their Arabic Speaking students are giving tele-links, and on-and-on. So knowledge of the land in which you are giving Daw'aah is not that important, but would be nice.

 

Anyways, I hope you understand Alle-ubaahne that we should be gentle with the Muslims..

 

As-Salaamu Alaykum

[Reality Check]

lol@Gaalo language. I have yet to see an ayaat that says english is Gaalo language..maybe someone can clue the rest of us in.

 

 

Xu, you have a point. The Imams should realize that not everyone speaks arabic.

 

UD, that article is disturbing. But not surprising that it is France implementing this.

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^ look my little sister, there is a hadeeth that says, "whoever pretends people in their manners (language, culture, behaviour and so forth) is one of them". Or something in the very essence of this statement, I believe. However, I think, there is a Muslim language, and Gaalo language. The best distinction for both is to look at the majority users of that language so as to decide. This is my understanding of what Gaalo langauge is, and isn't. Also, there is another narration which says, everyone of us will emerge on the day of judgment among the people you dearly loved, or as said by the prophet, (scw).

 

But Allah knows best, and that is all I can say here.

[Taqwa]

If you side with the french Govt. then welcome and face my wrath, but don't accuse me of my personal assessments on

Saxiib it's one thing to speak behind a screen and another to do it live. What wrath are you talking about? Walk the talk then maybe you'll get my attention, until then get lost man.

 

there is a hadeeth that says, "whoever pretends people in their manners (language, culture, behaviour and so forth) is one of them".

Get the hadith correct rather then putting it in your own words. I forgot what Madarasah did you go to akhii? I want to know what sheikh taught you the diin, cause harshness isn't part of Dacwah, take it from someone who gets irritiated easily.

[- Femme -]

See, Sister Female Fatale, there are many, many Shayukh that have affected the Muslims in the west, without even knowing English, or French

Yes of course...I dont deny that. Butt they had translators. Isnt it easier for them to learn the language and communicate personally with the people...instead of going back and forth through a translator?

 

Knowledge is so important---you have to learn the language of the region you reside.

[Blessed]

Allahs says about languages:

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge. (Rum: 30)

 

Languages are a blessing of Allah and are not man made - so there is no such thing as gaalo language. A language may be spoken by a majority of gaalo - that doesn't mean it lacks in value.

 

So, I agree with the thoughts put forward by Xu. Well said sister.

 

As for France and Co -am not suprised. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by -Femme Fatale-:

quote:See, Sister Female Fatale, there are many, many Shayukh that have affected the Muslims in the west, without even knowing English, or French

Yes of course...I dont deny that. Butt they had translators. Isnt it easier for them to learn the language and communicate personally with the people...instead of going back and forth through a translator?

 

Knowledge is so important---you have to learn the language of the region you reside.

What is wrong with translation, by the way? I don't understand why you make everything westernized! I think you are one of the people who believe that language is knowledge. That is completely wrong. Language is never knowledge. Get that streight in your mind. OK

[- Femme -]

^^^Waryaa Alle-Ubahne , ii sheeg bal, goormaa ananaansiga ka soo fakatey?

 

Ma la socotaa in si aad ah laguu radiinayo? Meeshaadi ku noqo yaa ku yirahdah...waayo halkaan waa ku wareersantahey.

 

Geel markii loo heeso baa adi goronyo iyo dameer u heestaa. Marka hori...hestaa saxda ah soo baro...markaas wax meesha la imoo oo la dhageensankaro. Ma fahantey yaroow?

 

Mise hanada inaa ku soo celiyo baa waajib ah? :rolleyes: