Somalilander or Not Somalilander? Part 2

[AfricaOwn]

Abokor Omar;722512 wrote:

If bribing is not working today and they are choosing unity to a country on it's knees, it's a waste of money and time. Simply when Somalia is able they will bolt for the door and laugh all the way to Mogdisho..

It's a short sighted policy.

Economic persuasion is supposed to always work in my opinions. The money is not right if this isn't working. SL is very poor to begin with. They have to find a way to win the people over.

[Malika]

Ha Ha Ha @ Taleexi, Libaan and Khadar idhika igu daraan baa - what a waste of time - arguing with the blind and deaf.

[AfricaOwn]

Malika;722518 wrote:

Ha Ha Ha @ Taleexi, Libaan and Khadar idhika igu daraan baa - what a waste of time - arguing with the blind and deaf.

That's some ironic stuff Malika. Have you seen some of their posts? Awdal is 90% for unity? the emotional outbursts is comical.

[Saalax]

Abokor Omar of course bribes & persuasion works especially with a group that is known for having alot of ehem ehem (Xaabsades, Keyse Yusuf's that will do the job smoothly).

 

 

Xukuumadda Somaliland Oo Degmadda Widh-Widh Ka Bilowday Mashaariic Horumarineed Iyo Nuxurka Shir-jaraa’id Oo Wasiirka Xanaanada Xooluhu Ku Qabtay Magaalada Burco.

 

http://www.ramaasnews.com/news.php?readmore=6595

 

Today

 

Beelo Ka Tirsan Deegaannada Gobolka Sool Oo Soo Saaray Gogosha Nabadda Ee Madaxweynaha Silanyo U Fidiyey.

 

 

http://oodweynenews.com/news/75076-beelo-ka-tirsan-deegaannada-gobolka-sool-oo-soo-saaray-qodobo-ay-kaga-hadlayaan-gogosha-nabadda-ee-madaxweyne-silaanyo-u-fidiyey.html

[A_Khadar]

Xaaji Xunjuf;722506 wrote:

Killing Somali Muslim people is not the way we should find a peaceful solution at any cost

You replied to yourself..

[AfricaOwn]

If worst comes to worst, SL will claim to those lands for bargaining chip purposes. Independence for parts of Sool and Sanaag, and we can call it a day.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

A_Khadar;722522 wrote:

You replied to yourself..

how so

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Abokor Omar i am all for defending the territorial integrity of Somaliland but the situation is different the ssc Problems can be solved very easy its all about how we approach the current situation. The Garaad clan is divided into two sections reer hawd and reer nugaleed. The reer hawd have felt territorial expansionism from the burco and Qurilugud clans the past 100 years so they will line them selves up in a more hostile way towards Somaliland and their neighbouring clans as they feel opressed.

 

Somalilands government must take away that Hostile feeling of fear.Compare them to the reer nugaleed Garaad clan.They are more open for suggestions and are more open minded since they only border A small section from the Big beard clan in northern sool and in sool only up to oog, which is 90km west of Laascanood.

 

If you can change the Psychologicial Environment of the Garaad clan More things can be done in the mean time widhwidh should get schools Basic infrastructure. And we will continue Gogashi nabada, Aynu wada hadalno wa aynu wada heshino.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

AfricaOwn;722523 wrote:

If worst comes to worst, SL will claim to those lands for bargaining chip purposes. Independence for parts of Sool and Sanaag, and we can call it a day.

A khadar wants to continue to let his animals graze as far as beyond garowe as he told me i suggest in the long term we should annex parts of Nugaal region the garaad clan will be happy as part of the longer term solution.

[Liibaan]

Ibti,

The Prophet said: 'a good/pretty word is charity.' (Sahîh Bukhârî).

 

Thank you for your long response as well,

 

 

Assume Somaliland divides along clan lines (that is what you are advocating for remember)

I am advocating for United Somalia, a union between all Somali clans and regions. Somaliland/SNM, Puntland, Galmudug, SSC, Awdal, and Hiiraan are all clan-states/factions. Somaliland/snm clan wants to have its own clan-state, and not be part of United Somalia. SSC People they don’t want to be part of snm/Somaliland. I don’t think we should force will work in any party.

 

 

Your clans of SSC (particularly the main clan) share miyi territory with the clans of the three city; in fact my home town Burco has about 20% SSC population with houses, business and land. My home village/ tuulo, use to be about 80% that clan,

Because Somali people are all neighbors, we all share some grazing/miyi territory. SSC people share miyi with Puntland, Maakhir, Western Somalia/onlf, not just with Northwest/Togdheer.

 

 

Garowe, Galkacyo, Bosaso, Dhagaxbuur, Wardheer, Qabri-Dahar, Mogadishu, Kismayo, all have large SSC population with houses, business, and land. There is SSC Community in Djibouti.

 

Presently, SSC and Somali communities live all over the world in Nairobi, Dubai, Cairo, London, Karachi, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Atlanto, New York, Minneapolis, Toronto, Los Angles. If there is some SSC individuals and families in Burca, Hargeisa, Djibouti, and some SNM/SL individuals and families live Las Anod, Las qorey, Bosaso, Galkacyo, and Mogadishu. No problem.

 

Hargeisa as a current commercial and business hub hosts this clan.

 

Boosaso, Garowe and Galkacyo as adminstrative, commercial and business hubs host thriving and large SSC population, remember Boosaso is 50% Maakhiri city, and there is huge SSC population as well in Boosaso.

 

Should the SSC be forced to clear off (displaced) to honor these clan alignments?.

 

If Somaliland secedes from Somalia, Should individuals and families from Somaliland/snm in SSC, Puntland, and Somalia be forced to clear off and displaced to honor these clan alignments? NO . Even if Somaliland separates from Somalia and SSC Region separate from Somaliland/snm , I believe Individuals and families should be free to live wherever they want, Somali people live in all cities and countries of the world.

 

Do you really think that the SSC clan can shift from the shared miyi lands forever?

Do you really think that SL/snm clan can shift from shared miyi lands forever???

 

Shared miye means it is co-owned, it will be shared forever or the land will be divided fairly forever. The issue of shared miyi lands/grazing areas is minor, when compared the issue of survival, there is individuals like JB who deny the existence of SSC people, their rights of freedom and self-determination. In this thread, JB said his sl/snm militia will not with SSC people, because he believe lies and fabrication like the defeat of SSC people by SL/snm militia in 1991, when there was no battle/fight that took place in northern Somalia between SSC and snm or between snm and Somali government in 1991

 

As an individual who don’t live there (SSC) you probably think if the village of LA and the other three city are cleared, then everything will be dandy right?

Most people from the 3 villages of Burco, Hargeisa, and Barbara thought if Somali Army leave their 3 villages, then everything will be OK????

 

Majority of SSC people in Las Anod, Buhoodle, Yaqoori believe Somaliland clan militia should leave their region and towns. The war is taking place between SSC people inside SSC Somalia VS. SL/snm clan militia.

 

I don’t live in City of Las Anod curently, but I have visited my hometown Las Anod 3 three times over the last 10 years. In 2007, the situation became much worse in SSC Region, after snm/SL militia invaded Las Anod, more than 50,000 people and families were forced to leave, and seek safe refuge in other Cities of Puntland and Somalia like Galkacyo, Garowe, Bosaso, Kenya , and Ethiopia. In 2011 SL/snm militia tried to invade Buuhoodle, Thanks to SSC Forces, SL failed to capture more Buhoodle Town from SSC.

 

It is my opinion therefore that your idea does not in reality work or can even be called a constructive proposal which preserves of the interest of your clan, let alone fair to anyone else.

Somaliland Clan-State and the secessionist project not realistic, not constructive and not practical as well, the idea of secession has tribalistic undertones. It will not serve the interest of SL Clan or any other clan/region.

 

It is as absurd as some Somalilanders saying; Those who do not want to be part of Somaliland are free to pack their belongs, grab their geel and huts and shift over to the lands that extend beyond the SL boarder to join the clan brothers they want.

True, we cannot expect SSC/Maakhir people to leave their ancestral land Las Anod, Buhoodle, Yogoori,Dhahar, Las Qorey, Bdhan, etc they lived there for thousands of years. Similarly, we cannot expect Somaliland/snm people to leave Hargeisa, Burco, and Barbara.

 

Those who telling SSC people to vacate their SSC homeland and move to other Puntland/Somalia Brothers , are like Israeli Authorities who telling Palestinian people to vacate their Palestine home land, and move other Arab countries/brothers.

 

Others say, those who do not want to be part of Somalia are free to pack their belongs, grab their geel, and huts, and move outside Somalia, to somewhere beyond Somalia borders.

 

 

- Somaliland and SSC future is intertwined because the people who LIVE (not you or khaddar, or AfricaOwn or XX) in those areas needs and survival are socially, culturally and historically intertwined, it has been for so long before politics got involved

.

 

Not just Somaliland people and SSC people , the future of all people of Somalia are intertwined, ( not you ibti, not jb, not XX, not GD, not NN,not MMA, not moonlight).

 

Somali people who live back home, their needs, survival, cultural, history, future, religion, language, trade, kinship, ethnicity, interest are intertwined, long before politics and fake colonial maps.

 

The SSC nomads will not leave the lands that sustains their livestock,

There is thousands of SSC/Maakhir nomads in other region of Somalia like Puntland, and Western Somalia/onlf region. What is your point??

 

There is SL/snm clan nomads in Western Somalia Region occupied by Ethiopia, beyond Somaliland Northwest/Togdheer [sL].

 

There is many people from SL, from Puntland , from Mogadishu/South , and from Western Somalia/Onlf who living with SSC/Maakhir clans in Dblock territories for hundreds of years.

 

Not just SSC people live with other Somalis, also other Somalis from regions Somalia live with SSC people . What is your point??

 

nor will they give up the lands and houses in the SL cities, nor will they shift over to the lands of D block to be a refugee.

Most SSC people live in D block areas of SSC Region, some live with SL/snm , but also some SL/Isaa..q live in Dblock area as well. it is 2-way street.

 

I don’t believe SL people who live in SSC, Puntland, and Somalia, should give up their houses and move to SL/Isaa..q areas.

 

 

Nor could they say we don’t want to be with you (SL),

Well Isa..q/SL cannot say we don’t want to be with Somalia, same thing can be said.

 

 

Nor can they say ISq clan should only live in 3 cities and give up their miyi territory.

SSC people never said SL, Awdal, Galmudug, or Puntland people should live only in their cities/urban center , and not their in miyi/ rurals ares. So you are wrong here.

 

There is thousands of SSC people live both in miyi/rural and cities of Puntland, South and rest of Somalia, Western Somalia/Onlf. Bosaso, Garowe, Galkacyo, and Kismayo all have huge huge SSC population.

 

Can you appreciate that your idea is not viable?

The SL idea and the clan secession is not viable as well.

 

 

 

I find it ridiculous when I hear you and the SSC nomads here saying SL should do what it wants and leave our cities alone.

 

Me too, I find it ridiculous when I hear you and the SL/snm nomads here say Somalia should do what it wants and leave our towns alone.

 

 

 

- IF you agree that the division needed to preserve both interest is NOT possible then we can progress, however if you still think the SSC clan can survive on its tuulos and cities while giving up their interest in the SL territory and shared lands, then please explain, I am all ears;?

If we Somali people cannot unite and share one-entity, the only option left will be we go our separate ways, which means division. SSC region is like any other Somali region, Puntland, Galmudug,Somaliland, Juba, Hiiraan, etc. SSC people can survive on their own Cities, and tuulos. Shared lands will be shared or the territory will be divided fairly.

 

Can SL clan give up their interest in SSC Region, Somalia, and Somali Region occupied by Ethiopia and shared lands?????

 

Most secessionists /Isa..q clan believe they cannot share one government with other clans of Somalia. Similarly the unionist SSC people believe they cannot share one-entity with a separatist clan faction SL/snm.

[OdaySomali]

Subxaan. I simply cannot understand how anyone can be that tribalistic, how many times did he refer to 'clan' or a particular clan. I don't see why some see clan as a solution when we all know "Dugsi ma leh Qabyaalad waxay dumiso mooyaanee". It is the problem, not the solution.

[Liibaan]

OdaySomali;722546 wrote:

Subxaan. I simply cannot understand how anyone can be that tribalistic, how many times did he refer to 'clan' or a particular clan. I don't see why some see clan as a solution when we all know

"Dugsi ma leh Qabyaalad waxay dumiso mooyaanee". It is the problem, not the solution.

Acudubilaah stop the hypocrisy, O. somali, you are a clan-secessionist, you advocating for Somaliland/snm clan-state, you support qabyaalad, and at the same you saying "Dugsi ma leh Qabyaalad waxay dumiso mooyaanee" waa xaqiiq. snm/Somaliland, Hiraanland, Puntland, SSC, Maakhir, Awdal, and Glamudug are all part of the problem, The solution is United Somalia, the World rejected to recognize snm-clan state, because clan-recognition will open " Pandora's box in all Somalia and all Africa".

[AfricaOwn]

'Liibaan';722549 wrote:

snm/Somaliland, Hiraanland, Puntland, SSC, Maakhir, Awdal, and Glamudug are all part of the problem, The solution is United Somalia, .

Why is SSC part of the problem? I thought they were already for the united Somalia?

[OdaySomali]

'Liibaan';722549 wrote:

Acudubilaah stop the hypocrisy, O. somali, you are a clan-secessionist, you advocating for Somaliland/snm clan-state, you support qabyaalad, and at the same you saying "Dugsi ma leh Qabyaalad waxay dumiso mooyaanee" waa xaqiiq. snm/Somaliland, Hiraanland, Puntland, SSC, Maakhir, Awdal, and Glamudug are all part of the problem, The solution is United Somalia, the World rejected to recognize snm-clan state, because clan-recognition will open " Pandora's box in all Somalia and all Africa".

In your moment of attempted defence mode, you have inadvertedly confirmed that you're a tribalist, which was clear for everyone to see anyway. You didn't deny being a qabilist but accused me of hypocracy - that I shouldn't call you out on your qabiilist tendencies.

 

If you want to know my opinion, click here .

 

I will remind you: "Dugsi ma leh Qabyaalad waxay dumiso mooyaanee". Cheers.

[AfricaOwn]

OdaySomali;722551 wrote:

In your moment of attempted defence mode, you have inadvertedly confirmed that you're a tribalist, which was clear for everyone to see anyway.

LOL hence my question to him. I'll be interesting to see how he responds to it.