Somalilander or Not Somalilander? Part 2

[Freedom]

The are several factors i have learned reading this posts. One that you unionst do expect Somalialnd right to be apart from Somalia only if regions within it that supporty unionst view are left alone. I for one dont want no group that does not want to be part of Somaliland to be forced, the only reason i feel we waste money are resources is becuase of the "British Somaliland borders" which we need to be independent. The sad fact is even if we let Parts of Sool and Sang go i doubt the TFG would say (Ok Somaliland is Independent). Do you lots who are suppoters of SSC really think if Somaliland let these parts go that individuals and leadership in the TFG or Puntland will say ok you are your own nation. How many times have i heard the shouts of (territorial integrity) be shouted out by people of the south, people of Puntland, people of SSC. If it was that simple a long time ago we would have said "Ok you dont want to be with us goodbye" by Unionst use the line of PROTECTING SOMALIA TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY in stopping Somaliland from being free. So i say to you DIE HARD UNIONST, DROP THE SOMALI TERRITORAL INTEGRITY TALK, GO OUT AND VOICE TO THE TFG, PUNTLAND AND THE WORLD THAT AREAS WITH FULL SUPPORT OF INDPENDENCE IN SOMALILAND SHOULD BE LET GO. But for some odd reason i doubt that will happen from you guys.

[The Zack]

^You understand that if SSC is not on board, there is 0 chance for recognition, right? Who will recognize three cities for a country? Unless of course you are Djibouti and you have historic official border line for those three towns.

[Som@li]

The Zack;722306 wrote:

Som@li and Liibaan,

 

If we put the clan argument aside for a minute, can you guys picture the people of SSC and Somaliland living together peacefully?

Excellent question bro, Of course, they can and they used to live together peacefully before, but the main issue is there is aggressors who wants to hijack whole regions and force them into secession, when wise people come together and forget the long gone colonials of Britain has no say in this land, when secessionists, give respect the desire of these people, when they come to senses they can not use the people who oppose the secessions as means to an end? Markaas baa xal fiican la heli karaa, They have spent a lot resources and money to down play the legitimacy of those who are against the secessions, they misinformed their people that SSC are terrorists ,their die hard supporters have worked for this project tirelessly, but they forget those who are against them, are not idi0ts, they can not be easily fooled,and have also being working hard to debunk the project.

 

Markaa what would you think should be the solution? work with who? someone occupying your cities? Have you ever heard SSC going to Secessionists region and claiming it? Cida khaldan waa muqataa brother.

[Som@li]

Freedom;722313 wrote:

The are several factors i have learned reading this posts. One that you unionst do expect Somalialnd right to be apart from Somalia only if regions within it that supporty unionst view are left alone. I for one dont want no group that does not want to be part of Somaliland to be forced, the only reason i feel we waste money are resources is becuase of the "British Somaliland borders" which we need to be independent. The sad fact is even if we let Parts of Sool and Sang go i doubt the TFG would say (Ok Somaliland is Independent). Do you lots who are suppoters of SSC really think if Somaliland let these parts go that individuals and leadership in the TFG or Puntland will say ok you are your own nation. How many times have i heard the shouts of (territorial integrity) be shouted out by people of the south, people of Puntland, people of SSC. If it was that simple a long time ago we would have said "Ok you dont want to be with us goodbye" by Unionst use the line of PROTECTING SOMALIA TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY in stopping Somaliland from being free. So i say to you DIE HARD UNIONST, DROP THE SOMALI TERRITORAL INTEGRITY TALK, GO OUT AND VOICE TO THE TFG, PUNTLAND AND THE WORLD THAT AREAS WITH FULL SUPPORT OF INDPENDENCE IN SOMALILAND SHOULD BE LET GO. But for some odd reason i doubt that will happen from you guys.

So you sayig TFG is denying my rights, and then I will deny the rights of those who are against secessions? If TFG is not letting you go, that is not the problem of SSC/Maakhir.

[Liibaan]

The Zack;722306 wrote:

Som@li and Liibaan,

 

If we put the clan argument aside for a minute, can you guys picture the people of SSC and Somaliland living together peacefully?

Zack walaal Yes, SSC people and Somaliland people can have peace, it is very possible if both parties are willing to coexist peacefully and compromise. If our brothers from Northwest [somaliland] want to join United Somalia, they are more than welcome, and if they want to leave the Somalia, we wish them good luck. There is no need for wars and force.

 

Every Somali region want freedom, self-determination, justice, etc We all want same thing, we just need to respect each other, peacefully coexist, and if we cannot unite and share one-entity, we can go our separate ways and each region will have their own mini-state. All Somalis regions should work together for the common good, whether we share one-entity or not, we are still neighbors and brothers.

[Freedom]

^^^ You lots just proved my points lool, i give strong point and you guys come back with (Who will recognize three cities for a country) or (If TFG is not letting you go, that is not the problem of SSC/Maakhir). And you guys wonder why somalilander want nothing to do with you lots. Let me break it down to Zack first and i come to you Som@li.

 

Zack those three cities are in three large areas within Somaliland. One city as port, the other city is the live stock center of the region and last city is the political and bussiness hub. Somaliland is bigger then Djibouti, economically more viable then Eritrea and politically more viberant the Somalia lol. I know this, UN knows this, EU knows this and U.S. government IE dual track approach for Somaliland. You also proved my point that underlies of self determination you say for SSC regions its reality about keeping this weak Somalia territorial integrity nonsense. Somaliland can give you the moon and the stars and still voice claims that somalliland cant be independent because of this or that. Get this Territorial integrity nonsense out and somaliland and Somalia can peacefully resolve and live in peace with each other.

 

Som@li your not my problem view only shows you dont care about having peace between somalis. For types like you its only about getting what you want and damn the hell with the rest, you fit your username nicely because you do have a somali mentality, of me only. I am not surprised with thinking like that why somalia is in flames now

[Jacaylbaro]

The Zack;722152 wrote:

Jb, you claimed that SL is doing something right and is talking to the proper parties, well that is good step sir but the most important side that SL needs to negotiate with is ssc and we don't see that going on. We see a war being waged against them and we all see more hatred in the making between the two people/entities. Don't you think that more energy should be focused on to these people? Instead of embracing what few dabaqoodhis like Xaaabsade do?

It is going on sxb .... it is not just out of the air yet but there is a massive diplomatic talks going on. Why else do u think there is no war happening ??

 

The Gogosha Nabadda is still open and it is expected to start anytime this year Insha Allah.

[Ibtisam]

Salamah,

 

1. AfricaOwn; as an ambassador and an advocate for Somaliland you make a poor job of making it appealing. You are always angry, resulting to name calling etc. There is an art to persuasion which you lack (Ngonge, Ododwyne, Suldaan, Ayoub and North have) and you are just angry 24/7 and easy to provoke (while JB comes across as happy go lucky). You, XX, axmed, saleex and Abokor are far too militant, rude and disrespectful (yes yes I get it people are the same to you, but you have to learn to rise above it).

 

2. Liiban; thank you for your length post, some I believe you are sincere, some are just pretty words; without me picking it all apart (don’t have time and you are hardly going to admit to it) here is the main problem I see with your argument;

 

- Assume Somaliland divides along clan lines (that is what you are advocating for remember) forget Awdal for the moment, Your clans of SSC (particularly the main clan) share miyi territory with the clans of the three city; in fact my home town Burco has about 20% SSC population with houses, business and land. My home village/ tuulo, use to be about 80% that clan, Hargeisa as a current commercial and business hub hosts this clan. Should the SSC be forced to clear off (displaced) to honor these clan alignments?. Do you really think that the SSC clan can shift from the shared miyi lands forever? As an individual who don’t live there (SSC) you probably think if the village of LA and the other three city are cleared, then everything will be dandy right? I am sorry to tell you that the area which your clan lives and sustain their livestock reaches far beyond those cities you know and right into the heart of the current "disliked" clan. It is my opinion therefore that your idea does not in reality work or can even be called a constructive proposal which preserves of the interest of your clan, let alone fair to anyone else.

 

It is as absurd as some Somalilanders saying; Those who do not want to be part of Somaliland are free to pack their belongs, grab their geel and huts and shift over to the lands that extend beyond the SL boarder to join the clan brothers they want.

 

- Somaliland and SSC future is intertwined because the people who LIVE (not you or khaddar, or AfricaOwn or XX) in those areas needs and survival are socially, culturally and historically intertwined, it has been for so long before politics got involved. The SSC nomads will not leave the lands that sustains their livestock, nor will they give up the lands and houses in the SL cities, nor will they shift over to the lands of D block to be a refugee. Nor could they say we don’t want to be with you (SL), but we will stay in the heart of your clan and operate with our interest intertwined. Nor can you say SL people stay out of our village while WE roam your cities and our livestock graze right in the middle of yours in safety and good heart. Nor can they say ISq clan should only live in 3 cities and give up their miyi territory. Now do you see the dilemma of such situation? Can you appreciate that your idea is not viable? This is why I find it ridiculous when I hear you and the SSC nomads here saying SL should do what it wants and leave our cities alone. It is a none argument, because in saying that you give up your clans claim to sharing grazing lands that form the backbone of their survival. How do you think they live? Do you think the majority live in brick houses with running taps and supermarkets? Could your clan really just live in your cities and survive, for how long? A day, a week?

 

- IF you agree that the division needed to preserve both interest is NOT possible then we can progress, however if you still think the SSC clan can survive on its tuulos and cities while giving up their interest in the SL territory and shared lands, then please explain, I am all ears;?

 

General point: All those saying get out of their land, it just shows you have no idea how people live in those areas. Qurbo joog.com :D

[Taleexi]

Jacaylbaro;722325 wrote:

It is going on sxb .... it is not just out of the air yet but there is a massive diplomatic talks going on. Why else do u think there is no war happening ??

 

The Gogosha Nabadda is still open and it is expected to start anytime this year Insha Allah.

Would you please ditch your Gogol and leave people's affairs to them. Get out of their land and then share whatever you see a solution to the concerned communities.

[Ibtisam]

Jacaylbaro;722127 wrote:

History is what makes countries and defines communities. Talk about British history and all you will read is the struggle and fighting with so and so. Talk about even Somalia and they will tell you about xaawo taako, sayidka, and so on. If you let your history go, then there is nothing left for you. And that is exactly what they mean when they tell you "let the past go" ............ Can America let 9/11 go ?? ... Can even Muslims let Badr & Uxud wars go ?? ,,,, if we want to let the history go, then that history should not happen in the first place. I told you, it could be easily avoided.

Okay you cannot let the past go, then creating a past for these people distinct from yours will haunt you later, agreed?

 

 

 

I told you, I'm up for any dialogue .... It is them that are still fighting. We're just fighting back. The statements like "You do not exist" or "You cannot exist" makes one more radical and would do anything to show them the otherwise.

 

Sit with them ?? ,, Good and excellent idea but with who exactly ??? ,,,,,,,,,,, Alshabaab ?? ,, The Villa ??? ,,, Ahlusunna ??? ,,, Bugland ??? .. Galmudug ?? ,,, Ximan & Xeeb ?? ,,,, Lasagna ??? ,,,, Jubbaland ?? ,,,, They need to be one first to be ready for sitting on a table for talks. That does not seem happening at the moment.

Forget Somalia as whole now; the SSC, I mean sit with the people not the oldies or the sell outs, sit with the people, all their representatives and hear them out, hearing out the few that come with you is not enough, hearing out the ones who oppose you is difficult but needs to be done. YOu are just chasing them around haada.

 

Yes SNM was Jabhad and no Somaliland is not making the same mistake of Siad Barre. Gov Modifications, talks, negotiations, and other things are underway right now. I don't want to tell you everything I know but there will be lots of changes coming in the near future. But you should know that SSC is not the same it looks on SOL ......

Okay progress of things are in the pipe line hence why the fighting stopped I get that, but can a long term solution be found rather then cease fires that randomly pick off where they left off after a while. Can something other than appealing to their hungry /bribe with money/ positions be done?? Otherwise tomorrow when the position shifts or the money is increased by someone else, they will buy from else where. Can you marginalized the money motivated ones and deal with peace/ progress motivated ones?

 

THE ZACK

Somaliland in its current capacity without giving up their claim- as an alternative; if Somalia fails to rise then they would've done themselves a great injustice giving up their claims prematurely. However IF Somalia rises, then they can give up their claim for the better alternative.

 

Lastly I am still waiting for someone to tell me what being part of Somalia looks like right one for someone who lives in SSC? Do you have a say? power or influence in the current power struggle going on?

[Taleexi]

*Ibtisam;722330 wrote:

Salamah,

 

1.

AfricaOwn;

as an ambassador and an advocate for Somaliland you make a poor job of making it appealing. You are always angry, resulting to name calling etc. There is an art to persuasion which you lack (Ngonge, Ododwyne, Suldaan, Ayoub and North have) and you are just angry 24/7 and easy to provoke (while JB comes across as happy go lucky). You, XX, axmed, saleex and Abokor are far too militant, rude and disrespectful (yes yes I get it people are the same to you, but you have to learn to rise above it).

 

2.

Liiban;

thank you for your length post, some I believe you are sincere, some are just pretty words; without me picking it all apart (don’t have time and you are hardly going to admit to it) here is the main problem I see with your argument;

 

- Assume Somaliland divides along clan lines (that is what you are advocating for remember) forget Awdal for the moment, Your clans of SSC (particularly the main clan) share miyi territory with the clans of the three city; in fact my home town Burco has about 20% SSC population with houses, business and land. My home village/ tuulo, use to be about 80% that clan, Hargeisa as a current commercial and business hub hosts this clan. Should the SSC be forced to clear off (displaced) to honor these clan alignments?. Do you really think that the SSC clan can shift from the shared miyi lands forever? As an individual who don’t live there (SSC) you probably think if the village of LA and the other three city are cleared, then everything will be dandy right? I am sorry to tell you that the area which your clan lives and sustain their livestock reaches far beyond those cities you know and right into the heart of the current "disliked" clan. It is my opinion therefore that your idea does not in reality work or can even be called a constructive proposal which preserves of the interest of your clan, let alone fair to anyone else.

 

It is as absurd as some Somalilanders saying; Those who do not want to be part of Somaliland are free to pack their belongs, grab their geel and huts and shift over to the lands that extend beyond the SL boarder to join the clan brothers they want.

 

-

Somaliland and SSC future is intertwined because the people who LIVE (not you or khaddar, or AfricaOwn or XX) in those areas needs and survival are socially, culturally and historically intertwined, it has been for so long before politics got involved.

The SSC nomads will not leave the lands that sustains their livestock, nor will they give up the lands and houses in the SL cities, nor will they shift over to the lands of D block to be a refugee. Nor could they say we don’t want to be with you (SL), but we will stay in the heart of your clan and operate with our interest intertwined. Nor can you say SL people stay out of our village while WE roam your cities and our livestock graze right in the middle of yours in safety and good heart. Nor can they say ISq clan should only live in 3 cities and give up their miyi territory. Now do you see the dilemma of such situation? Can you appreciate that your idea is not viable? This is why I find it ridiculous when I hear you and the SSC nomads here saying SL should do what it wants and leave our cities alone. It is a none argument, because in saying that you give up your clans claim to sharing grazing lands that form the backbone of their survival. How do you think they live? Do you think the majority live in brick houses with running taps and supermarkets? Could your clan really just live in your cities and survive, for how long? A day, a week?

 

- IF you agree that the division needed to preserve both interest is NOT possible then we can progress, however if you still think the SSC clan can survive on its tuulos and cities while giving up their interest in the SL territory and shared lands, then please explain, I am all ears;?

 

Dear sister: Unfortunatly, you are advocating what I may term a holistic gumaysi perpetuated your clan admin towards other clans. In reality, we all know all Somalis' interests are intertwined but that is not the point here. If your clan or admin whatever you like to call it thinks/believes/wants to have its actioned unquestioned then the semantics of this discussion is heading south. Let your admin bites what it can swallow -- and leave other clans to their own devices. I know that is too much to ask, but anything else is a non-starter.

[Taleexi]

The Zack;722306 wrote:

Som@li and Liibaan,

 

If we put the clan argument aside for a minute, can you guys picture the people of SSC and Somaliland living together peacefully?

It would have been lovely, wouldn't it? Of course there is a way of which not only the said communities can live together in peace but there is a way that all humanity can live together in peace --- Horaa loo yidhi Xamiido was-mona waa rabtaa farsamadeediina ma hayso ... If SL wants peace the ball is in her court. Maakhir, SSC, Awdal people the only choice open to them FOR NOW is that they realize their inalieable self-determination by any means necessary.

[Ibtisam]

Taleexi: It is holistic gumaysi in either direction, isn't that WHY Somaliland claims independence? So since either one cannot submit to that, an alternative needs to be agreed. That is my point; It cannot be as simple as do what you want and leave us alone, only ignorant people or those who can safely sit behind a computer without being impacted can say that with a straight face.

 

FOR NOW is that they realize their inalieable self-determination by any means necessary.

whose self determination is more important? mine, yours or the majority?

 

If that is the case, then in the foreseeable SOMEONE/clan will be oppressed somewhere in the Somali Lands.

[Taleexi]

OdaySomali;722252 wrote:

I have no 'Mawqif', just my opinions. If you're referring to my ab ove comment then that was more of a question than a statement. Anyway, my other username is ......

 

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are you ready?..

 

 

 

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"Taleexi"!

 

But seriously, what makes you think I have another account, I thought everyone was only allowed one (I don't see what the point in have multiple woul be anyway). Iminka waan Shakiyay, i'm wodering how many of you poeple have multiple accounts.

Never mind saaxiib, It is highly probable that you are a duplicate! but that has doesn't influence the direction of the discussion.

[Taleexi]

*Ibtisam;722338 wrote:

Taleexi: It is

holistic gumaysi

in either direction, isn't that WHY Somaliland claims independence? So since either one cannot submit to that, an alternative needs to be agreed. That is my point; It cannot be as simple as do what you want and leave us alone, only ignorant people or those who can safely sit behind a computer without being impacted can say that with a straight face.

Ibti: my dear, I know I'm an ignorant figure but I believe that I deserve to shape my destiny like anybody else of course we don't see eye-to-eye on this. In the case of "an alternative be agreed", waad iga qoslisay and I needed one after a long day. Admit or not admit your clan needs other Somali clans as much as my clan needs them. No more, no less. Don't portray that your people are encapsulated and are self-sufficient when it comes to the interdependence of the said communities. Finally, I've invested a lot of effort promoting peace in Somalia and I shall continue to do so but sorry I cannot accept the gross injustices that you are promoting here. Oh, Somaliland claiming its independence from WHO? last time I checked they are the aggressors but you are picturing them as if they are the victims ... cajaa'ib -- Allow sahal umuuraha.

 

Your self-determination is important to you. My self-determination is important to me and who is the majority we are talking about here. Last time I checked Somalis didn't have social security numbers.

 

So, you are suggesting the oppression of your clan towards my clan is justified therefore I've to leave it. Thanks for this, at least we are drawing clear lines in the sand --- now let me say no injustice can last forever -- SSC, Maakhir and Co are in the point of no return and are determined to remove the shackles of colonizers from themselves.