Somalilander or Not Somalilander? Part 2

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Saalax;722668 wrote:

With all due respect that is like saying the ONLF should give up and consider their position and become a state of Ethiopia because it seems there is no freedom on sight for years to come.

Good point, Somaliland is allready independent and that's what matters to the people of Somaliland that there is no outside force ruling them they control their land and their future. see that's the mentality that i really dislike about the koonfurians why should Somaliland be an autonomous region of Somalia Why can't Somalia be an autonomous region of Somaliland. Zack The People of Somaliland will even turn down the offer if you give them Somalias president for for eternity. the capital the prime minister and 60% seats of the parliament i believe they still will turn down that offer. the only option is two nations side by side.

[SayidSomal]

Norf: My respectful friend, please accept my sincere apologies for my lack reply to your response. Although i have penned a reply i don't want to post it here.

 

All of you: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

 

for ibti alone: yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada

[Saalax]

Xaaji Xunjuf;722670 wrote:

Good point, Somaliland is allready independent and that's what matters to the people of Somaliland that there is no outside force ruling them they control their land and their future. see that's the mentality that i really dislike about the koonfurians why should Somaliland be an autonomous region of Somalia Why can't Somalia be an autonomous region of Somaliland. Zack The People of Somaliland will even turn down the offer if you give them Somalias president for for eternity. the capital the prime minister and 60% seats of the parliament i believe they still will turn down that offer. the only option is two nations side by side.

Xaaji Xunjuf don't be surprised most non Somalilander's do not know about the fact Prominent Somaliland men such as Col.Xasan Kayd Walanwal attempted a coup in 1961 to return the lost sovereignty of Somaliland. Later on in 1991 the SNM fulfilled Col.Xasan Kayd Walanwal's vision with the people's decision.

[SayidSomal]

Leader:

Ray "Captain Sensible" Burns

Slogan:

The Only Sensible Vote is the Protest Vote!

Founded :

24 September 2006

Headquarters:

9 Newtown, Honley, Holmfirth, HD9 6PG

Ideology:

Direct democracy & Protest vote

Political position:

Left, right, centre and everywhere inbetween

Official colours:

Red and Black

Website:

www.theblahparty.co.uk

"I always wanted to put a brick through the TV when I saw Blair pop his head up. It's quite easy to write lyrics when politicians are so corrupt. I had to start my own political party I was so angry. I called it the Blah Party. It was 50 per cent joke, 50 per cent serious but was my way of dealing with it."

[Saalax]

Xaaji Xunjuf;722669 wrote:

Do you know the founder of SNM and the First Chairman of SNM Axmed jimcaale always disagreed with the union with Somalia even during the 60s he was a member of the NUF party

 

Plus Col.Xasan Kayd Walanwal the man who assembled a team of Somalilander officers, military men in 1961 to return the sovereignty of Somaliland. Thus we can say the aspiration to seperate from the dark reunion actually started in 1961.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Indeed the struggle started in 1961 the people of somaliland rejected the union from the beginning even the so called referendum in the early 60s the people of Somaliland said no to the Union.

[OdaySomali]

The Zack;722597 wrote:

Folks, when the discussion reaches to the point where you start name-calling each other, it is better off if you just drop it.

 

Overall, Aside from being a bit emotional, I think the folks from SSC are winning this debate. This win is based on this one main point:

 

If Somaliland is seceding from Somalia because of their choice, SSC is seceding from Somaliland because of their choice. In my point of view, that is a strong point. The secession sympathizers should address that point to move this debate to the next level.

 

NGONGE stated that there is no point to discuss this now because the rest of Somalia is in chaos and there is no place for Somaliland to return to. Well, what he forgot is that there won't be a recognition until the issue of SSC is settled. Maybe good NGONGE doesn't care much about the recognition as Rush Limbaugh (oops, Africa Own) accuses him of.

Maybe I don't understand something that everyone else here takes for granted. Are Somaliland and SSC synonyms that, in this context, ya'll are using because qabiil names are censored out and we are actually discussing clan and not politics? Because from what I can tell from these threads, that seems to be the case. Nevertheless, even if is this the case, will someone explain to me why some people think/ are talking as though clans are political parties and that someone thus has a particular view because of his or her clan.

 

Take for example Zack's comment above. Where he refers to "Somaliland" and "SSC", what does he actually mean? If he is referring to clans, how can an entire clan have one political viewpoint as though it is part of their DNA:confused:

 

Zack, on the point of choice, is there personal choice or only clan choice [determined by a few]?

 

In any case, though it seems not many have paid attention to what I said before, here it is again:

 

If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not "SSC", "AWDal" and "makhir" as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if "Somalilanders" paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti "somaliland" then they are alienating some of them.

[Malika]

How difficult is to understand this simple statement- No PEOPLE and no PART of a people Shall be held against its WILL in a political association it does not want- all these noises and yet no one seem to comprehend this simple fact that it matters not if SSC people are divided or in unity all it matters is there is a majority that are against secession. But ofcourse, as Somalis we see not beyond the clan - and assume if one is for or against a political association it is that they are against or pro a clan, hence all this talk of grazing land, social and economical association - iyo sidhee loo kalaa marmii, this is beyond the point.

 

SL has all the rights to its agenda of secession but it has no right to force others to do so - and if the claim is the so called borders, that were drawn by some dead men, some years ago -then its nor here nor there- fortunately, the earth is for the living, not some dead men whom lived years ago, they died with their agreement - hence new aggrements can be drawn..Just as SL presented it case of withdrawing from its agreement to build a nation of Somali Lands..marka, SL can readjust its borders and go forth, no need for the tag of war. Although saying that, all this will be possible if Somalia agrees to it, secession will only happen when Somalia is ready and in agreement. Meanwhile I urge SL to stop its aggression and impossing nature toward the folks in SSC regions. This is a dangerous move, I believe destablising the region for a mere ambition is silly and worthless in the long run.

 

I am disappointed that SL supporters are for this aggression, no matter how much one believes its their in their right but one must always remember the other ones rights too ,if not this becames an issue of human rights - just to remind the supporters [ well those with sense ofcourse]

 

Allah kuli xal - May the lands of Somalis be lands of Peace ..Ya Rabi!..

 

As you were folks, am out.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Yeah oday zack thinks the people of sool sanaag cayn are like sheeps and have one political desires he thinks it's black and white but on the contrary what he is referring to is the garaad clan to be precisely the maakhir clan have no intenion to join the ssc Rebel group. There is division among the Garaad clan , Majority of the reer nugaaleed thinks it's fine to ally themselves with the rest of Somaliland. While there are elements in the Buhoodle district who are hostile towards Somaliland and the neighbouring clans as i explained earlier. Even the diaspora do not agree wether to join the rebel group puntland or Somaliland.

[OdaySomali]

^^ Let's not forget, like I said, some in the "SL" camp are for the union. It was a general rather than a specific point that I was making; Zack's comment was just an illustration.

[The Zack]

I will come back to address all other points as time permits but please answer this one question that I have asked repeatedly in this forum: you folks are telling us Somaliland has the right to secede, right? Do sscers have the right to refuse to secede with Somaliland? This is a closed question that requires a yes or no answer. Please don't dance on it, do not spin it either. Answer the question. Anyone? Xaaji? saalax? Oday?

[Jacaylbaro]

If you're talking about reer Sool ........ Yes they have all the rights but the simple point you need to understand is that ssc is not more than a jabhad and do not represent the whole reer Sool.

[OdaySomali]

The Zack;722761 wrote:

I will come back to address all other points as time permits but please answer this one question that I have asked repeatedly in this forum: you folks are telling us Somaliland has the right to secede, right? Do sscers have the right to refuse to secede with Somaliland? This is a closed question that requires a yes or no answer. Please don't dance on it, do not spin it either. Answer the question. Anyone? Xaaji? saalax? Oday?

For me to answer that question, you'd have to answer my previous question to give me a better understanding of what you actually mean. btw interesting choice of people to address the question to.

 

In the meantime, I will re-post, again, something that I have previously said many, many times.

 

On the question of SSC. Of course, Somaliland is not going to be peaceful or successful if it tries to force people that are against it to be part of it

(imo)

.

On the other hand, Somalia is not going to be peaceful if it tries to force Somalilanders who are against a 'union'. This should be resolved by way of a referendum.

Like liibaan said, respect is a two way street. I wouldn't want Somalis to die and fight wars over anything, whether independence or something else.

[i think that would be a priliminary YES to your question]

.

 

But, Zack, on the point of choice, is there personal choice or only clan choice [determined by a few]?

 

If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not "SSC", "AWDal" and "makhir" as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if "Somalilanders" paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti "somaliland" then they are alienating some of them

.

[Saalax]

The Zack here is my views regarding Eastern/Southern Sool breaking away from Somaliland in favour of Somalia.

 

Saalax;722668 wrote:

'Liibaan' first of all you don't speak for Awdal. Secondly i welcome a referendrum in the near future where you can have the opportunity to vote for your areas to stay with Somalia or Somaliland. If you perfer being ruled from Mogadishu which is 714 km away from your ancestral lands rather than Hargeisa which is 334 km away.

[Aaliyyah]

How difficult is to understand this simple statement- No PEOPLE and no PART of a people Shall be held against its WILL in a political association it does not want- all these noises and yet no one seem to comprehend this simple fact that it matters not if SSC people are divided or in unity all it matters is there is a majority that are against secession. But ofcourse, as Somalis we see not beyond the clan - and assume if one is for or against a political association it is that they are against or pro a clan, hence all this talk of grazing land, social and economical association - iyo sidhee loo kalaa marmii, this is beyond the point.

 

SL has all the rights to its agenda of secession but it has no right to force others to do so - and if the claim is the so called borders, that were drawn by some dead men, some years ago -then its nor here nor there- fortunately, the earth is for the living, not some dead men whom lived years ago, they died with their agreement - hence new aggrements can be drawn..Just as SL presented it case of withdrawing from its agreement to build a nation of Somali Lands..marka, SL can readjust its borders and go forth, no need for the tag of war. Although saying that, all this will be possible if Somalia agrees to it, secession will only happen when Somalia is ready and in agreement. Meanwhile I urge SL to stop its aggression and impossing nature toward the folks in SSC regions. This is a dangerous move, I believe destablising the region for a mere ambition is silly and worthless in the long run.

 

I am disappointed that SL supporters are for this aggression, no matter how much one believes its their in their right but one must always remember the other ones rights too ,if not this becames an issue of human rights - just to remind the supporters [ well those with sense ofcourse]

 

Allah kuli xal - May the lands of Somalis be lands of Peace ..Ya Rabi!..

 

As you were folks, am out.

Malika, I agree with you hun. You nailed it! But. I must add I am no longer disappointed in the Somalilander's HYPOCRISY. I was at first laakin hada waanba fahmay in ay xaqdaro iyo edabdaro wada tageersanyihiin. Laakin meel dheer ma geenaso...

 

salaam