Somalilander or Not Somalilander? Part 2

[Jacpher]

The publicity Somaliland gets around the cyber world, a good chunk of it comes from right here SOL.

 

Thanks to LST, Somaliland is a possibility in actuality, not imagery.

[Jacaylbaro]

Zack, Somaliland is here to create its own version. If referendum is held in Sudan, and Eritrea agreed with Addis ..... then our version will also come in a different type that will be written in the history. Hadhow uun yaan ku arkin adigoo leh Somaliland ba sidaas bay yeeshay .....

 

As of SSC, I told you 200 Million times reer Sool warkoodu waa mid Somaliland u yaalla wax fogna maaha. Waxaad yeeli lahayd haddaba sii diyaarso

[Jacpher]

The Zack;722617 wrote:

Video-gu wuxuu leeyahay: Ururka dhaqdhaqaaqa Somaliyeed, nothing about Somaliland. The speaker is talking about Somalia .

This is because some old hardcore clanist crooks have hijacked the good intentions of those defending themselves from the brutalities of the regime. They never fought to secede from the union or intent on harboring hostility towards their fellowmen who were equally victims of the regime. You can say they successfully hijacked the old movement and brainwashed the masses into thinking duriyadda does deserve a country of their own.

[The Zack]

^Good points, Jacphar. The SNM struggle has indeed been hijacked. SNM = Somali (no land here) National Movement.

[Jacpher]

^Right but you can't get a hardcore separatist to understand that.

 

Jacaylbaro;722627 wrote:

As of SSC, I told you 200 Million times

reer Sool warkoodu waa mid Somaliland u yaalla

wax fogna maaha. Waxaad yeeli lahayd haddaba sii diyaarso

Please elaborate more? Do you mean you attacked their land and held them hostage, thus you drive your agenda to their skull in a gun barrel or do you mean they make up a minority therefore, they can vote all they wish but the majority rules? Spell it my friend.

 

How is this argument of yours that Sool being SL internal issue any different than someone saying Somaliland waa arrin internal ah Somalia u taal?

[The Zack]

^You pwned him right there! JB, explain that point in details. "Wax fog ma aha" maxaad ka waddaa? The hatred between the two communities has spiked in the last two years, and it is not going to get better, I am afraid, before it gets worse.

 

 

Again, this is very simple point. Somaliland says: We don't want to be part of Somalia.

SSC says: We don't want to be part of Somaliland.

How does one who supports one of those statements oppose the other?

[Ibtisam]

Wooow this thread moved fast.

 

Libaan I dont have the time haad to answer your long post, I will inshallah read it and come back to it later.

 

The Zack; Can I correct you please; It is not SSC that is holding Somaliland hostage, it is Somalia. I believe that regardless of what development Somaliland reaches, even IF SSC and everyone was on board, Somaliland will still be a hostage of Somalia for the near future. With the same token I think if Somalia continues to be troubled to this capacity for longer than 10-15years, everyone including Puntiland will be moving in different direction. One of the reason I think SSC issue is neither here nor there (so long as there is no fighting) is that waa irrelevant at this moment, Somaliland cant go any where until there is a Somalia to talk with, nor can SSC have any support or go anywhere without a viable Somalia. Therefore they are both waiting for the same thing [in the short term], wait in peace and when the time comes you are both better place to make a decision together or apart. All this noise, fighting and bodbod is a waste of life, energy and resources.

 

The Zack dont shoot yourself in the foot; IF Somaliland is expected to come back from the hatred of pre 1991 and its impact, it is hardly a tall order to ask SSC to come back from clan clashes. There is no comparison surely?.

 

EDIT: Also, SNM Puntiland iyo SSC supporters drag their name around, the irony is that as a Movement they were not fighting for an independent state, and some of their key leaders bitterly objected to the new agenda afterward. But I guess when clan is all you can see, and your historical knowledge is Zero you make up all sorts of things to re-write history.

[The Zack]

Ibti,

 

While I respect your position, I happen to slightly disagree with you on some of the points you have made. SSC is a major problem for Somaliland. It is something that will be looked at if the AU wants to consider recognizing Somaliland. I am not saying getting SSC on board will get y'all a straight forward recognition but it will take you one step closer. On another note, recognition iyo recognition la'aan, the issue of SSC can't be ignored. I am afraid, there will be more bloodshed in the coming months for this cause, a bloodshed that can be avoided.

 

Dhinace kale, what is your take on the overall Somaliland thing? It has been 20 years, the recognition is not here, there is no sign it will be coming in ages. Don't you think that it is time Somaliland reconsiders its positions and maybe offer to be an autonomous region in Somalia? I mean the status quo is not helping them at all. I know they can't control what is going in the south but they can contribute positive things to it.

[Jacaylbaro]

For the SNM issue, only one person knew and that was not other than Siad Barre ..... He repeated "dalka waa la kala goynayaa" and no one listened simply coz no one said so until his fall came. It is politics and it is dynamic sxb if you know what i mean.

 

As for SSC .... ma rabo inaan ka hor dhaco laakiin wax fog maaha. Xalkeeduna waa mid socda.

[The Zack]

*Ibtisam;722644 wrote:

Wooow this thread moved fast.

 

 

 

The Zack dont shoot yourself in the foot; IF Somaliland is expected to come back from the hatred of pre 1991 and its impact, it is hardly a tall order to ask SSC to come back from clan clashes. There is no comparison surely?.

 

.

Somaliland clan have been subjugated and harassed by a regime that contained all kinds of clans ( Some of them actually were from Somaliland) and not by a specific clan, do you disagree with that fact? Even if you believe it was Siyad Barre's clan that did that to the Somaliland clan, Somalia is a multi-clan country. Just because specific clan did bad things to them doesn't mean they should secede from all Somalia. The issue of SSC, however, is different. It is one clan vs one clan thus the hatred is more serious.

 

JB, so SNM was for secession in the 80s? oh please!

[Jacaylbaro]

Somaliland Clan ,, eh ??

 

Try again adeer ...... taa waa lagugu fahmaye

[Ibtisam]

The Zack;

 

1) AU is not looking at recognizing Somaliland- regardless of what steps are taken or how much/less attention is given to SL or SSC. Personally I think that prolonged conflict in that region is not possible because neither one can effectively move nor is the land going anywhere. I think occupying SSC is useless and a waste of time, life and money, at the same time I think resisting and losing your life for something so pointless and which may or may not happen is pointless. The SSC region clearly has some anti SL people, but it also has pro SL people who are being employed by the government, being forced to fight your sub clan for a cause neither of you are sure will take you anywhere seems like a brainless activity to me personally. When and if ever SSC have a united front, they will be better positioned to fight or as a token, for as long as they remain as they are i.e. divided and fighting for few months and then making peace and then fighting again and the cycle, their issue will come and go but will largely remain irrelevant.

 

2) There is no Somalia, as an entity there is nothing Somaliland can do to help Somalia, the clan balance which Somalis love so much will ensure of that. I am all most 90% sure that IF Somaliland got involved it will just become another fraction in the conflict. Look at how Puntiland messed itself up getting involved and even leading Somalia two different times. How is burning everything better than some areas being better off? How can any object to what Somaliland HAS achieved for its people. You say as if it is a negative thing, I think the fact that Somaliland has not been recognized is a blessing, for being here now, I can see that they have been sheltered by that very reason, and it has allowed them to build the root that will sustain them as people and allow them to develop. I personally don't see recognition coming forth in the next 10years, laakin if they did receive independence then, they would be better equip and read for it then they are now.

 

3) Somaliland problems is not just war, but sustained abuse ii ka tirsanaya the whole of Somalia since joining, the majority of the soldiers that were deployed to the Norther regions were specific clans, the Northern soldiers were sent to Xamar where I am sure they too carried out some crimes. Nevertheless Somalia is still fighting in clan lines- can we expect them to recover? if we look at the Islamic courts the answer is yes. IF we talking about union EVERYONE including SSC will have to recover, if you are saying they can't recover, then there is no union and the whole project is a lie. FYI: SSC has a long standing history of fighting with the HJ, ask anyone from either clan and they will tell you so, they have and can recover, history tells us so.

 

Libaan I read your response, I would've picked on every line but in the interest of time;

 

1) The point you missed is, should SSC and SL part on bloody terms, and Somaliland is recognized it will be SSC nomads that have to shift- or do you then plan a campaign to free your people who want to live all the way to Burco but dont want Somaliland? Muush macquul.

 

2) What about people within the SSC who support and want Somaliland?

 

3) Somaliland is not fighting OG and they have boarder as different countries for so long, therefore you cannot compare it to a new board situation

 

4) You keep telling me about Hirran and Somalia and this and the other, focus your argument and narrow it down; the choice seems simple:

a) The SSCs who want to go CAN go, those who want to stay can stay [free choice for all], so between SSC decide who wants what and where and then move/ live accordingly. That way the SSC clan harmony/area is maintained, the SSC/SL issue is resolved and no life is lost. It also means people can continue moving freely in the event Somaliland continues on its path and proceeds.

 

OR

b) Unit all of SSC, including your sell outs, mini sub clans and all and persuade each other to go one way or another, once you have decide amongst yourself, don't CHANGE your mind and pursue that goal. Dabaqdabaqadan iis kasa ayaa daanta this sporadic loss of life and flares in fighting. Iis fiican baa la iisu dila one time and then you progress beyond it, you cannot stay in a cycle your whole life.

 

I shall agree to disagree with you both respectfully. We too are now going in circles, so I am out. Enjoy. :cool:

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

The Zack;722632 wrote:

^Good points, Jacphar. The SNM struggle has indeed been hijacked. SNM = Somali (no land here) National Movement.

SNM was not Somalia national Moverment it was Somali and we are Somalis.

[Saalax]

The Zack;722647 wrote:

 

It has been 20 years, the recognition is not here, there is no sign it will be coming in ages. Don't you think that it is time Somaliland reconsiders its positions and maybe offer to be an autonomous region in Somalia?.

 

With all due respect that is like saying the ONLF should give up and consider their position and become a state of Ethiopia because it seems there is no freedom on sight for years to come.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

The Zack;722651 wrote:

Somaliland clan have been subjugated and harassed by a regime that contained all kinds of clans ( Some of them actually were from Somaliland) and not by a specific clan, do you disagree with that fact? Even if you believe it was Siyad Barre's clan that did that to the Somaliland clan, Somalia is a multi-clan country. Just because specific clan did bad things to them doesn't mean they should secede from all Somalia. The issue of SSC, however, is different. It is one clan vs one clan thus the hatred is more serious.

 

JB, so SNM was for secession in the 80s? oh please!

Do you know the founder of SNM and the First Chairman of SNM Axmed jimcaale always disagreed with the union with Somalia even during the 60s he was a member of the NUF party