Somalilander or Not Somalilander? Part 2

[Bashiir]

*Ibtisam;722114 wrote:

Bashire: No not your or BOB (He is kismayo), I can't remember his name, laakin wa half waadad.

Ninkaasi amuu Abdiladiif, Geenyaale yahay? Haduusan aheyn waxaa ku soo hadhay Faafan, Jabhad, iyo Abtigiis. Intoodaba waa half wadaad, half jabhado iyo half xamaalato. Abtigiis ayaa noogu gal gal badan( reel magaalsan), siyaasada iyo nolol maalmeelkeedka Somalida degta waqooyiga isagaa ka daawada TV-yada, joornaalka Jamhuuriya inuu akhristana waan ku wadaa. Inuu inala joogo way fiicneyd. Paragon, Cheele, Sophist, Baashe, Hunguri, Odweyne, Bilan iyo Lazygirl iyana koley wixii la soo qoro dusha way ka akhristaane inay iska soo galaan, doodan haba loo dhanaadee, ma xuma. Intaan ka hayo emailadooda iyo telefoonadooda waan garaaci ee idinku sii wata hordhaca doodaa.

[Jacaylbaro]

JB until they are ready could be a long time, in the mean time, dont you think you should do some damage control? As a die hard Somalilander who reminds us all the time of 1981, 88 and 91, can you or are your prepared to ever let it go, bygones and history and all.

History is what makes countries and defines communities. Talk about British history and all you will read is the struggle and fighting with so and so. Talk about even Somalia and they will tell you about xaawo taako, sayidka, and so on. If you let your history go, then there is nothing left for you. And that is exactly what they mean when they tell you "let the past go" ............ Can America let 9/11 go ?? ... Can even Muslims let Badr & Uxud wars go ?? ,,,, if we want to let the history go, then that history should not happen in the first place. I told you, it could be easily avoided.

 

 

IF this history holds you hostage, could you ever sit down with the said people and tell me you can have a honest and open good hearten dialog with them? Dont you think it is impossible with the burden of you did this to me?

I told you, I'm up for any dialogue .... It is them that are still fighting. We're just fighting back. The statements like "You do not exist" or "You cannot exist" makes one more radical and would do anything to show them the otherwise.

 

Sit with them ?? ,, Good and excellent idea but with who exactly ??? ,,,,,,,,,,, Alshabaab ?? ,, The Villa ??? ,,, Ahlusunna ??? ,,, Bugland ??? .. Galmudug ?? ,,, Ximan & Xeeb ?? ,,,, Lasagna ??? ,,,, Jubbaland ?? ,,,, They need to be one first to be ready for sitting on a table for talks. That does not seem happening at the moment.

 

 

 

You say SSC wa jabhaad, was SNM not a jabhaad, is Somaliland in fact not making the same mistake as Siyad Barre did by labeling them as such and not dealing with them and their issues, maybe few changes and modification in the government much like the SNM wanted could swing the people?

Yes SNM was Jabhad and no Somaliland is not making the same mistake of Siad Barre. Gov Modifications, talks, negotiations, and other things are underway right now. I don't want to tell you everything I know but there will be lots of changes coming in the near future. But you should know that SSC is not the same it looks on SOL ......

[nuune]

 

May 20, 2011 (AP) MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — Hassan Qasim lies shackled to a wall in a hallway with 25 other patients at a clinic for the mentally ill in Somalia.

 

The country has been mired in civil war for almost as long as he's been alive. Doctors say the 25-year-old's brother and sister both were killed in front of him. Soon after Qasim began wandering the streets naked.

 

The World Health Organization estimates that one in three Somalis have suffered from some kind of mental illness, a rate that is among the highest in the world.

 

Somalia is also among the worst places on earth to have a mental illness.

 

Resources are so limited that many are simply chained up without medication. The country has just three psychiatrists at its main mental health facilities nationwide.

 

The Associated Press

 

 

Ps: We are all crazy, how can we then have a healthy debate, Ilaahay ha na caafiyo si aan bal qumaati wax isku weedaarsano.

[Jacaylbaro]

Waalli + Qabyaalad = Disaster ............... Allah ha inoo sahlo

[Som@li]

Sit with them ?? ,, Good and excellent idea but with who exactly ??? ,,,,,,,,,,, Alshabaab ?? ,, The Villa ??? ,,, Ahlusunna ??? ,,, Bugland ??? .. Galmudug ?? ,,, Ximan & Xeeb ?? ,,,, Lasagna ??? ,,,, Jubbaland ?? ,,,, They need to be one first to be ready for sitting on a table for talks. That does not seem happening at the moment.

JB,

 

You don't have to bring all those to justify the naked aggression by Somaliland militia in SSC, Maakhir why are you not addressing about the real issue which is in their region of Former BRITISH Somaliland, the clans who live are not all into this project, ignoring and oppressing these people will not make the FACTS go away. You have been trying to keep this under the carpet for over 20 years? how long it is before you address the core issue ? YOU can secede , You can join Israel if you wish, We will not force into union but forcing the people in SOOL and Maakhir into secession is wrong, Denying they exist is wrong. Who gave you the right to determine their life? And don't come with what comes from SL politicians, where are brothers and sh!t! I think in 20 years it is obvious these people don't want anything to do with SL. People in Las Anod don't want occupation and humiliation, SL is taking their basic right of self determination away.

 

SL has being causing destruction on these region, it is time you let GO!, withdraw your troops, and magaalooyinkiina ku eekada, respect the wishes of the people of SSC, MAAKHIR etc

 

Trying to outsmart people and force them in secession will not work, ignoring the issue will not work, bribing their clan leaders will not work, dividing them will not work, hijacking and ignoring the core issue and sell and fool the world will not work....

 

Is that hard to understand?

 

Salaams

Somali

[Jacaylbaro]

SSC issue is a Somaliland issue adeer ...... we will deal with it carefully and the most peaceful way possible. We know the risks and we know what we are facing. Things are moving slowly and carefully. Don't rush, peace conference is gona start soon.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

I actually welcome a pro union Political party with in Somaliland constitution and let's experiment and hear their views see if there are people who support the union with Somalia. We Must continually strive to maintain the rights of the citizens of Somaliland. For the ssc Group supporters i would ask them what did they do to make Somalia a better place libaan screams everyday he loves Somalia united what did you and your people do to make Somalia a better place did you Contribute to the peace process in Somalia other then endless clan meatings in the Jungle of eatern sool or fancy hotels in London, are you and your People politically involved in Somalia politcs?

[The Zack]

*Ibtisam;722110 wrote:

 

The Zack; Could Somaliland be seen as a stepping stone to Federalism and in turn would yield the ever sought UNITY of all of Somali speaking lands?

Most definitely, Ibt! If Somaliland changes its stance and admits that the secession idea has failed, it can been a stepping stone to federalism. I think you asked both parties good and fair questions but all have not been answered yet.

Jb, you claimed that SL is doing something right and is talking to the proper parties, well that is good step sir but the most important side that SL needs to negotiate with is ssc and we don't see that going on. We see a war being waged against them and we all see more hatred in the making between the two people/entities. Don't you think that more energy should be focused on to these people? Instead of embracing what few dabaqoodhis like Xaaabsade do?

 

Sscers, if Somaliland drops its secession idea and claims to be part of the big federal somalia, would your region be ok to be part of Somaliland? If not, why not?

[Beer-Gaal]

The Zack;722152 wrote:

Sscers, if Somaliland drops its secession idea and claims to be part of the big federal somalia, would your region be ok to be part of Somaliland? If not, why not?

Hort, if Somaliland drops its secession idea and claims to be part of the big federal somalia. By then there won't be Somaliland as such ,but rather a North West and Togdheer regions of Somalia, which are brotherly neighbors of Sool region. Even though i'm not a big fan of SSC, for one reason their claim of Sanaag as a part of their SSC , but I don't see the reason why they wouldn't welcome back their brothers and sisters in the north.

[AfricaOwn]

*Ibtisam;722082 wrote:

I just read the list again and it looks like I've excluded everyone

I would've liked to see a debate with the following components and opponents.

 

Pro-SL: North, Ngonge

Interesting you picked the new-born Somalilanders. Norf was on "my uncle or no I wont be supporting SL " stuff for a long time. Dude even used to support Al-Shabab (I can bring those threads back Norf) and NG was just a sarcastic dude with a lot of cheap subliminal shots who would sit on the fence for a long time. The only time they showed up is when Burco was involved in talks.

[OdaySomali]

I am impressed by the civility of the ongoing discussion and some really good points are being raised/discussed. Keep it going ladies and gents.

 

[Leezu]

Jacaylbaro;722144 wrote:

SSC issue is a Somaliland issue adeer ...... we will deal with it carefully and the most peaceful way possible. We know the risks and we know what we are facing. Things are moving slowly and carefully. Don't rush, peace conference is gona start soon.

How is SSC a Somaliland issue? They clearly stated they dont want to be part of Somaliland and they have always been part of Somalia until they were forced to join Somaliland through their ambitions of filling the British Somaliland borders inorder to be recognized. You always talk about Somaliland on the Isek point of view where they dont give a shit about if people want to be part of Somaliland or not.

You guys always are emotional about that Somalia shouldnt have the right to tell you to stay or not but you contradict yourself by not letting SSCers and Awdalites go.

How do you claim somebody whos not willing to take part in our project?

[Liibaan]

Ibti,

 

Liibaan, okay you want to be part of Somalia, what does that mean?

The vast majority of SSC people want to be part United Somalia, it means SSC people want to share a country with their fellow Somalis Puntland, Maakhir, Awdal, Galmudug, Hiraan, Northwest/Togdheer, Gedo, Juba , etc

 

where is Somalia haada?

 

 

You need to understand that SSC is one region in Somalia , like Bari, Nugaal, Mudug, Hiiraan, Awdal, Jube, etc All Somali people collectively need to answer, where is Somalia? Not just SSC people .

 

SSC people believe Somalia as their country, they recognize Sheikh Shariif as the president of Somalia, they willing to wait Central Government of Somalia, temporarily SSC people want to have their own SSC State like Puntland, Galmudug, Hiraan, Awdal, Azania.

 

 

You say Somaliland does not exist and it is all Somalia, but haadan you say I dont want to be part of Somaliland?

Secessionists like Siilaanyo, XX, JB are saying SSC People don’t exist, while at the same time they don’t want to be part of Somalia, they are hypocrites. I don’t want SSC Region to be part of SNM/ Somaliland faction, because Warlord Siilaanyo and his fans JB and XX hate and deny the existence of SSC people, and they believe lies like SNM clan militia defeated of SSC people in 1991. When there was no war or battle that took place in North Somalia in 1991.

 

If Somaliland claim all the territories of the former british somali colony, then there is no such thing as Somaliland, because the former colony is dead and irrelevant today. If Hargeisa,Burco, and Barbara want to separate from Somalia, they can do without bringing back the old colonial maps.

 

Somalilanders/ secessionists should understand If Somalia is divisible , So is the territories of former British Somali colony. Forcing SSC people to be part of Somaliland's Colonial map never worked in the past, and it will never work in the future. In 20th century hundred thousands of SSC people lost their lives fighting for their independence and their freedom, and they rejected the British occupation and the unjust British colonial map.

 

Likewise, people of Western Somalia, NFD, Palestine, Kashmiir, South Sudan, Kurdistan, East Timor, all of them don't want to accept colonial maps No want to be occupied and oppressed including Northwest/Togdheer region .

 

If there was a WHOLE Somalia again you do realize that Somaliland will be a player?-

Every Somali region will be a player Awdal, Northwest/ Togdheer [somaliland], Puntland, SSC, Maakhir , Galmudug, Hiiraan, Bay and Bakool. Somaliland is like any other Somali region.

where and how would you transfer your hate to then?

You don’t have to assume or put words in my mouth. I have big problem with Warlord Siilaanyo, his Somaliland clan militia, because they are waging aggressive clan wars on SSC people. But that doesn’t mean I hate Northwest/Togdheer [somaliland] people or region. Secessionists have problem with Somalia and Governments of Somalia, does that mean they hate people of Somalia?

 

There is a war and a military conflict between Northwest/Togdheer and SSC Regions, but I don’t think people hate each other.

 

 

Would you ensure they are marginalized or occupied.

NO, Subhana Allah thats haraam and unjust, because I fear Allah and the day of judgment, I will forgive and I wish for Northwest/Somaliland, what I wish for my home region SSC, and every other Somali region Puntland ,Maakhir Hiiraan ,Awdal, Galmudug. Etc.

 

And I would ensure Northwest/SL region get a fair share, like Puntland, SSC, Galmudug, Awdal, Maakhir, Hiiraan, and Gedo

 

Being marginalized or occupied is terrible like the situation in Iraq, Palestine, Kashmiir, or Western Somali/Onlf and SSC Region to a lesser degree, so I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

After all that happened, could you seriously call them your brothers? or has the hate and wars progressed too far for it ever to coexist within ONE entity (be it Somalia or Somaliland or SSC, or Puntland , or Galmudug)

YES, after all that happened, My neighbours (SL), are still my fellow Somali brothers like my Puntland brothers, my maakhir brothers, my Galmudug brothers, my Gedo brothers, My Awdal brothers, my Western Somalia/Onlf brothers, my hiiraan brothers, my banadir brothers, my Djibouti brothers, my NFD brothers.

 

Even if Hargeisa & Burco separate from Somalia, and SSC Region remain as part of United Somalia, we are all still neighbours, and brothers, both sides need to coexist peacefully within one entity or not.

 

In reality Somali problems can be easily solved if Somalis are willing to respect each other, and ready to compromise. I believe all Somali people can coexist peacefully within ONE entity Somalia/Somaliweyn. If one region like Somaliland/Northwest want to separate from Somalia and leave the union, that is fine, their wish should be respected . But also I expect also my neighbours (Somaliland) to respect the wishes of SSC people to have their own SSC State of Somalia and remain part of United Somalia.

 

Unity is always better than division, United we stand, and divided we fall. But If Somali people cannot share one-entity and country SOMALIA/Somaliweyn, and somalis want to have 20 or 30 mini countries, no problem. Therefore, we should respect if Hergaisa, Burca, and Barbara want to have a country called “Somaliland”. Similarly, we should respect if Las Anod, Buhoodle, Taleex, Yaqoori, Boocame, widhwidh, and Xudun want to have a country called “SSC”. We should respect if Borame and Zeylac want to have a country called “Awdal” , and also we respect if Las Qorey, Badhan, and Dhahar want to have a country called Maakhir.

 

I think I am reasonable and fair person. I believe the Golden Rule “One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself”, and in Islam we have a hadith “None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”—An-Nawawi's Forty Hadith 13 (p. 56)

[G.O.E.T.I.A]

 

woow libaan, there I rest my case. Anyways check your PM : )

[OdaySomali]

'Liibaan';722206 wrote:

In reality Somali problems can be easily solved if Somalis are willing to respect each other, and ready to compromise.

I believe all Somali people can coexist peacefully within ONE entity Somalia/Somaliweyn. If one region like Somaliland/Northwest want to separate from Somalia and leave the union, that is fine, their wish should be respected . But also I expect also my neighbours (Somaliland) to respect the wishes of SSC people to have their own SSC State of Somalia and remain part of United Somalia.

 

.....

 

I think I am reasonable and fair person. I believe the Golden Rule “One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself”, and in Islam we have a hadith

“None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”

—An-Nawawi's Forty Hadith 13

 

Good points and well said.

 

'Liibaan';722206 wrote:

Unity is always better than division, United we stand, divided we fall. But If Somali people cannot share one-entity and country, then we should respect if Hergaisa, Burca, and Barbara want to have a country called “Somaliland”. Similarly, we should respect if Las Anod, Buhoodle, Taleex, Yaqoori, Boocame, widhwidh, and Xudun want to have a country called “SSC”. We should respect if Borame and Zeylac want to have a country called “Awdal” , and also we respect if Las Qorey, Badhan, and Dhahar want to have a country called Maakhir. If Somalis want to have 20 or 30 countries, no problem. (p. 56)

Just to clarify, so you would [only] accept either a united Somalia or clan states? (and nothing else)