Somalilander or Not a Somalilander?

[Taleexi]

Open your eyes. We neither have union nor secession for now. I'm trying to save lives if at all possible. If not ha is deyso diidee, ha is raamsatee daa.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Saalax;721621 wrote:

1 thing might i add we all know what happened to that ex USC warlord Cusmaan Cato when he was a MP in the TFG he arrived in Hargeysa and though it was part of Somalia mamuu ku sheega TFG and he wouldn't be deported lol. Maxa ka racay he was straight away deported by the Interior minister of Somaliland. Making it clear we mean it business we don't mess about.

i was in hargeysa wagaas it was 2005. during the summer Ismacil adan cismaan Former interior minister ba Airportka ka celiyey the poor cismaan caato wuu naxay marki la mustafiriyey he owns some ganacsi in Somaliland wuxu is yidhi hawlahagi iska wado lolz.

[Saalax]

XX I don't blame the Government for deporting him even though he might had family there. But the rules are rules if you are involved in politics especially with another government that is against Somaliland's existence you deserve deporting and even jail at times( that also happened to the TFG MP that entered Awdal.

[OdaySomali]

Taleexi;721605 wrote:

Nicely put yaa OdaySomali. And I may be a guilt of calling you; yeah! you are a bit too idealistic in here. I could be bias because unlike many here I'm a staunch pragmatist. Putting kaftanka aside, Yaynaan milil dushii dhayin. Sida aynu wada ognahay markay Somaliya bururtay, oo ay sidii wuxuushtii isu cuntay, beel waliba waxay u hayaantay to their homelands. Let me be assertive and to the point here and address the sub conflict of the northern clans. In order to avert all out war in the region it is up to the players of the conflict indeed, it takes two to play tango. As you hinted let us divide the parties at the conflict into two camps. Awdal, SSC, and Maakhir (Unionist block) on one side and Somaliland (the secessionist block) on the other. Hence, these opposing views do exist in the north. For argument's sake, let us halt/ignore what other Somalis think about this, at least for this moment.

 

First, in case you do not know there is an active war ongoing in the enclave perpetuated by SL against some regions in the north namely SSC. In order peace be given a chance and negotiations kick off. This hostility has to cease without condition. SL militia, they ought to go back to their homes. This should be the start point. Secondly, SL’s would-be talking points should be revisited and polished. Meaning, they should come to the discussion table as stakeholders with goodwill not as guardians for others in the territory. Thirdly, the unionist block has to respect the wishes of their brethren in the region. They've to foster trade, confidence building and other traditional familial ties among communities. And tone down the unproductive mantra of tola'ayey. Once the supply chain is strengthened be might economic front, security or other common interests I'm sure people would want to talk and preserve the peace and would want to coexist and cohabit.

 

Finally, the fever of secession and union should be treated as such "don't ask, don't tell" policy at least for now --

I say if it saves lives why not

--. One should keep them into their heart until healthy communities that are sane which can make concessions and compromise emerge. In my personal view, the ball is in SL's court and, they ought to make the first move if peace is their priority otherwise God forbid all I see in the horizon is many people going to hell in flocks.

Nicely put yourself yaa Taleexi,

 

I think you are being reasonable here and if everyone looked at what is practicle, reasonable and in the interest of the people, somali politics would be a lot less of a headache.

 

In response to the part of your comment where you were being "assertive and to the point" (lool):

 

One thing i fear from what is going on up north is the tribalising of the politics and people and the division following on from that. If you push and push and push people away from each other on the basis of clan e.g. "awdal" "sscc" "makhir" and your "somaliland" interpretation", it is simply not going to work in the long term in terms of achieving any progress for anyone. If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not SSC, AWDal and makhir as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if Somalilanders paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti union then they are alienating some of them. IN any case, pro-unionist camps should not use clan to divide people to hope to later unite them as in the process they will create real and lasting hate that will have side-effects and will shape the future. Otherwise in future, when things get hard, people will turn to what they know best and that is clan.

 

I see you are trying to use the clan diversity to your advantage in this case but I must point out that, as far as i'm aware, "Awdal" in pro-Somaliland, that is deviating from your clan categorisation I know, but facts are facts. Also Las anod and now widh-widh have become more warm to Somaliland, without local supporters that would simoply not be possible. Makhir is relatively peaceful/neutral and has found some sort of balance.

 

What needs to be here is common ground. That should be that (i hope) both camps

want peace for the people and it should also be what the elders of all the northern people achieved together in 1991 when they agreed in peace to no longer fight. They should all also realise that until de-jure independence and recognition, as one does not guarentee the other, come, it is really not neccesary to fight. They should know that they, together, are in a better position than the south and capitalise on this. In all honesty the TFG/Al-shabab/warlords/AMISOM/etc will currently not bring anything to SCC, AWdal, makhir or SOmaliland.

 

However, if SSC & other agree with Somaliland, to have a united and independent 'Somaliland' on the condition of eventual long term re-integration with Somalia [once it is at peace and it has a stable political system] so that in the mean time ALL the local people up north can live together in peace and experience development and stability knowing that 'Somali unity', fickle though may it be, is not lost. Puntland and Somaliland and Somalia, in that context, IMO, ay iskaashan karaan.

 

So they should agree to disagree but agree to peace. They should agree to see that there is currently nothing in the south and that they should seek to develop first and long term re-integration later on. If they have peace and development, as Somali people, that would be a guul for all SOmali people. If they are willing to sacrifice in the short run to gsain in the long run and also are willing to be practicle then at least some somali people will find peace. The trend/strategy by unionists of division by clan, is wholly a wrong one; that I must stress.

[Mulugbaadh]

In my opinion, the result of the referendum would be this. Woqooyi Galbeed, Saaxil, Togdheer, Awdal and Sanaag, the result would be a unanimous 'yes'. The only region with the possibility of voting 'no' is Sool.

[Liibaan]

Most regions of Northern Somalia will vote Yes for United Somalia, the results would look like this;

- Awdal 90% Yes for United Somalia,

- Sool Sanaag & Cayn 99.99 % Yes for United Somalia,

- Maakhir 99.99 % Yes for United Somalia,

- Bari, Nugaal, Mudug, and all Puntland 99.99 % Yes for United Somalia,

- Only Hargeisa, Burco, and Barbara Triangle will for the Clan-Secession. (Woqooyi Galbeed and Togdheer)

[Liibaan]

People of Borame and Awdal Showing their support for United Somalia and Awdal State of Somalia " Long Live to Awdal State, Down to Somaliland"

 

Shacabka Borame iyo Awdal oo Muujiyey Taageeradaweyn ee u hayaan Midnimada Somalia iyo Maamul Goboleedka Awdal State, Ayaga oo dhawaaqaya " Awdal State Hanoolado,Guusha Yaaleh Awdalland, Hadhacdo Somaliland, Hadhimato Somaliland"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[G.O.E.T.I.A]

Xaaji Xunjuf;720998 wrote:

a Khadar you are misscalculating the Awdalians will majority vote for an independent Somaliland in an independent Somaliland Politically they will have a good representation in Somaliland , in the days when the Somali republic was the Somali republic they had one Minister in the whole government and in the late years of the Siyad Govt the awdal Gobol was created . Now they have two Gobol awdal and selel and rayaale created selel and it was approved by the parliament they have Equal share in the Govt. In the Former Somali Govt they had only 4 MPS, in Somaliland they have 25 mps both Guurti and Parliament. it's All about interest they can't afford to be insignificant in Somalia.

in Djibouti after the Canfar they are the largest Community there and they only have one Minister Like the The'Bani hashim clans inDjibouti

. So Somaliland is in their interest the majority of their people know that so they will vote for independence over 80%

I need to correct a few things in my awoowe's quote.

 

*In Djibouti, they are the second most populist somalis after the ****. They used to have 2 ministry jobs, but with the new reshuffle, they're only left with 1. (remember that times have changed now, because you will be jugded by your competencies rather than your clanial lineage, so the size of the portion no longer matters)

 

*As a djiboutian, I would say and even warn them that Somaliland's is not in their interests. Being a minority along many other minorities in Somalia is far better solution for them. We know who's trivin for somaliland, and If that tribe ever gets a country of their own, awdalites would be subject to all kinds of humiliations as they would never ever come close to being in anywhere near the trone. They should avoid becoming the afars of Somaliland, being promised welfare and prime ministry jobs, and treated as second class citizen are intolerable and not negotiable.

 

better be insignificant (and preserve your dignity) in the vast Somali pool than forever staying the losers of Somaliland :cool:

[Ibtisam]

So after 11 pages, has anyone moved from their original goal post or is everyone standing at the same spot shouting the same thing???

 

Somalis problem stems from this inability to listen to each other and hear/consider the others option.

 

With the exception of Taleex and Odysomali, the rest are just too busy defending a side to consider other possibilities.

 

The Zack, I meant the places I went of course and, contrary to Khadar confidence that I only went to Isa*q clans towns, Khalshaal Miyi parameters ayan daafey. Alhumdulilah there was already some talks and agreements between local clans when I was there, so alhumdulilah I didnt see any war (although gun trotting men were around). But on the whole most I met were Pro-SL, those I did meet who were Anti-SL had real and tangible grievances that if dealt with would address the core of their protest. Personally I don't think Somaliland has the resources or the patience to deal with such people and their grievances and they will remain as the swinging vote [if ever there was a vote]

[Faafan]

I think Somaliland needs a "NO" party and a "Yes" party, what you have now is parties who dont tolerate any other political viewpoint when it comes to secession and unity.The Unity parties and the secession parties would attempt to sell there political stance to the population instead of having constant bombardment from one opinion for 20 years this may change the opinions of many of the most extreme followers of Somaliland statehood.The platform has to be fair both sides of the political persuasion have to be represented for any refrendum to have merit today Kulmiye,UDUD and UCID have the same stance on secession and any party who brings the Unity card would certainly find themselves in Mandheera prison.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Goetia in Djibouti the awdalite community had only one minister and that minister held also another position the deputy prime minister position neverless.The Awdalian Community in Somaliland are different then those that live in Djibouti or Ethiopia the awdalite community in Somaliland are politically involved and they know that they are very significant in Somalilands political culture .and the never want to jeopardize that.

[Mulugbaadh]

'Liibaan';721786 wrote:

Most regions of Northern Somalia will vote Yes for United Somalia, the results would look like this;

- Awdal 90% Yes for United Somalia,

- Sool Sanaag & Cayn 99.99 % Yes for United Somalia,

- Maakhir 99.99 % Yes for United Somalia,

- Bari, Nugaal, Mudug, and all Puntland 99.99 % Yes for United Somalia,

- Only Hargeisa, Burco, and Barbara Triangle will for the Clan-Secession. (Woqooyi Galbeed and Togdheer)

Could you elaborate as to why you think Sool, Sanaag, and Awdal would vote for united Somalia? Oops, forget the question! I just realised that you used the phrase 'clan secession'. I don't think anyone with such a pathetic mentality can ever be capable of coherent reasoning!

[Taleexi]

OdaySomali;721668 wrote:

Nicely put yourself yaa Taleexi,

 

I think you are being reasonable here and if everyone looked at what is practicle, reasonable and in the interest of the people, somali politics would be a lot less of a headache.

 

In response to the part of your comment where you were being "assertive and to the point" (lool):

 

One thing i fear from what is going on up north is the tribalising of the politics and people and the division following on from that. If you push and push and push people away from each other on the basis of clan e.g. "awdal" "sscc" "makhir" and your "somaliland" interpretation", it is simply not going to work in the long term in terms of achieving any progress for anyone. If one perpetually links political differences to clan differences you are going to make a whole lot of people oppose each other than would otherwise be the case. For example if you represent everyone that is not SSC, AWDal and makhir as anti union though some of them are pro union then you are alienating them. Vice versa if Somalilanders paint everyone that is, for example "SSC", as anti union then they are alienating some of them. IN any case, pro-unionist camps should not use clan to divide people to hope to later unite them as in the process they will create real and lasting hate that will have side-effects and will shape the future. Otherwise in future, when things get hard, people will turn to what they know best and that is clan.

 

I see you are trying to use the clan diversity to your advantage in this case but I must point out that, as far as i'm aware, "Awdal" in pro-Somaliland, that is deviating from your clan categorisation I know, but facts are facts. Also Las anod and now widh-widh have become more warm to Somaliland, without local supporters that would simoply not be possible. Makhir is relatively peaceful/neutral and has found some sort of balance.

 

What needs to be here is common ground. That should be that (i hope) both camps

want peace for the people and it should also be what the elders of all the northern people achieved together in 1991 when they agreed in peace to no longer fight. They should all also realise that until de-jure independence

and

recognition, as one does not guarentee the other, come, it is really not neccesary to fight. They should know that they, together, are in a better position than the south and capitalise on this. In all honesty the TFG/Al-shabab/warlords/AMISOM/etc will currently not bring anything to SCC, AWdal, makhir or SOmaliland.

 

However, if SSC & other agree with Somaliland, to have a united and independent 'Somaliland' on the condition of eventual long term re-integration with Somalia [once it is at peace and it has a stable political system] so that in the mean time ALL the local people up north can live together in peace and experience development and stability knowing that 'Somali unity', fickle though may it be, is not lost. Puntland and Somaliland and Somalia, in that context, IMO, ay iskaashan karaan.

 

So they should agree to disagree but agree to peace. They should agree to see that there is currently nothing in the south and that they should seek to develop first and long term re-integration later on. If they have peace and development, as Somali people, that would be a guul for all SOmali people. If they are willing to sacrifice in the short run to gsain in the long run and also are willing to be

practicle

then at least some somali people will find peace. The trend/strategy by unionists of division by clan, is wholly a wrong one; that I must stress.

Mudane OdaySomali salaan sare baan hawada kuu soo marinayaa ugu horayn!. I wonder though; why is my sixth sense telling me that you are a clown of SOLer?, why am I thinking you are promoting secession more over unity?, why am I thinking you are an underground ambassador for the secessionists' cause. Halkaa markaan kaftanka ku waabiyo, dhambaalkaagii wuxuu i soo gaadhay anoo bed qaba dabadeed si wacan ban u akhristay balse waa aan saluugay . How dared I do such a crime you may ask my friend?

 

First, let us embrace the facts, Somaliland means different thing to different people. In my view and many other northerners' regard SL something that was born and raised in the sphere of one clan's needs and wants thus, SL merely represents the interests of one clan, advocates the rights for one clan while subjugating, oppressing and adapting expansionism policies on pro-union clans' regions. None of us needs to be a rocket scientists to figure out SL intentions. Breaking up the country, promoting animosity and hatred among northern communities, and yet portraying itself the oasis of peace and democracy what a lie that slipped its way out.

 

Secondly, YES, I'm partially aligning my political interpretation with clan make up and, you would be naive or be singing in a vacuum if you don't consider the clan factor in the Somali political calculus. Do I like it? … H-ELL NO I say, but our rationale and psychic say clan is everything - Rag ciil cadaab ka dooray, fiqi tolkii kama janno tago - anigu ma odhan thus, I'm not liable for them. Hyprid system is what I'm calling for in order modern Somali nation surfaces again.

 

Thirdly, I'm not sure if it was an inadvert or intentional on your part when you've pictured SL as a force that is making inroads in the unionist' heartlands. I want to say; this is a very skewed view of the facts if Xaabsade visiting, who deserves an execution none but by SSC community, Widhwidh or Las Anod make happy some secessionists so be it but facts remain SSC & Maakhir are now in the point of no return to secession camp, of course they've never were but the idea could've been entertained in the past but that is like what accountants term a "sunk cost". Yes to Peace, Yes to Coexistent & Co-habitant. In the case of Awdal, they are geographically disadvantaged somewhat but the latest development there attest they want to be ruled from Mogadishu rather from Hargeisa. In this case, time will tell.

 

Finally, SL and for that matter the unionists block had a chance to sort out their differences while SL was at its embryo state. SSC & Maakhir have never taken arms against the secessionist block until lately but the narrow-minded, visionless leaders of SL made the north what it is today. For now, as I said in my earlier post, SL has to make the first move and leave others to their own devices. A short of it is a recipe for disaster in my biased view. Aan ku soo khatimo, hadal uu abwaanka Soomaaliyeed yidhi mar u xidhnaa xukuumadii markaa dirty, oo lag yidhi waa lag sii deynayaa'e cudur daaro oo dheh - waan denbaabay - markaas buu ku jawaabay ereyadan ee bal ila akhriso.

 

Xabsi ama xoriyad sharif leh ama cabal dee I ask no more no less saaxiib. Inta ay waalidu inaga degayso khaasatan SL wareerka iyo khiyaaliga ka baxayso aynu iskaga sii jirno shimbirayahow heesa.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Since when la ogalaaday naming qabiil names? Waaba lagu taraaraxay. Wah. This thread is closed. Don't blame us moderators. Blame yourselves for not resisting magacaabida qabiilada and repeatedly breaking the site's rules.

 

Wax yar lagama maqnaan karo, sidii ciyaal camal waala isku dhexyaacaa and not respecting the simple rules of the site. Had iyo jeer in lagu dhex jiro ayee doonayaan, oo la kala cel celceliyo.

 

To the newbies, please do read this Ogeysiis thread.