Sunnis vs. Shi'ites vs. Other?

[Hibo]

I don't know much about the deen, but i can't resist making an imput into this thread.

 

 

The Prophet gave the answer to your question i n that same hadeeth. His companions asked who the saved ones were, and He (saw) those who are on that which I and my companions are on.

 

I'd say follow the authentic sunnah and the quran as it was followed by the Messengers companions and their immediate followers, the first 3 generations, whome some call Salaf Salaxiin.

 

 

MMWA,

You know i was a lil uneasy about the word salaf my self, but do U know that it was used by the Prophet .... he said to fatima in a hadeeth reported by Muslim (saheeh)

 

'Oh fatima, i am to you a blessed salaf'

 

Salaf just means predecesor - those who came b4... the Prophet (saw) and his companions.

 

I don't agree with the argument of calling yourself salafi or forming groups, which is what some salafees do. Cos that would be contradicting the salaf ..... if the messenger (saw) chose Muslim and Abu Bakar, Ali, etc... all chose 'Muslim' as their title ....shouldn't we ?

 

 

We should take the truth from everyone ... anf always ask for evidence from the quran and sunnah.

 

and , Allah knows best

[Boss]

LadyFatima

 

As far as i know this topic or hadith has been misunderstood by muslims. i would very briefly tell you what a scholar said about this. first these are not division as you are implying here, it is merely a group of muslims trying to fullfil or attend to some specific needs of the ummah. for example the Tableeq group have done much to get many muslims [and even non muslims] off the streets. Al itihad is concerened with the unity of the muslim ummah, and so are other groups. so this is not divisions among the muslims, it is just a fulfillment of a need within a particular area and time.

 

The hadith you quoted about 73 divisions is also misunderstood. this hadith does not mean that the above groups, which in the real sense are all doing good service for the deen, are divisions. what one scholar [whose name i cant recall now] actually says is that the division would not necessarily occur in the same period. it means that the divisoin would occur over several period of time from the time of the death of the prophem [scw] untill the end hour.

 

my advice to you all is that plse be careful about this topic, the enemy of islam want to take advantage of you by showing you division among the muslims.

 

 

[Boss]

LadyFatima

 

As far as i know this topic or hadith has been misunderstood by muslims. i would very briefly tell you what a scholar said about this. first these are not division as you are implying here, it is merely a group of muslims trying to fullfil or attend to some specific needs of the ummah. for example the Tableeq group have done much to get many muslims [and even non muslims] off the streets. Al itihad is concerened with the unity of the muslim ummah, and so are other groups. so this is not divisions among the muslims, it is just a fulfillment of a need within a particular area and time.

 

The hadith you quoted about 73 divisions is also misunderstood. this hadith does not mean that the above groups, which in the real sense are all doing good service for the deen, are divisions. what one scholar [whose name i cant recall now] actually says is that the division would not necessarily occur in the same period. it means that the divisoin would occur over several period of time from the time of the death of the prophem [scw] untill the end hour.

 

my advice to you all is that plse be careful about this topic, the enemy of islam want to take advantage of you by showing you division among the muslims.

 

 

 

------------------

salaam all

[Hibo]

four legs bad two legs good, 4 legs good two legs bad, one leg good two legs bad, three legs are better but two legs are enough..

 

aw buustaalow xertaada usoo banaandhig!!

 

shiikhu wuu yare cadhooda marka lala hadlo.

 

" waxaa layidhi baalayidhi baaa la yidhi baa layidhi..""

 

shiikh gabadhan waa yara xanuunsanaaysaa

haa tuf !! tuf!! tuf!!!!! xaaq tuf.. hadii aad intan cabto waad ladananaysaa baa la yidhi baa layidhi..

 

waar maxaa isku haysaan.

 

" anigaa ilaah u dhow>> "

" waar anaa kaaga dhow""

 

qub qac qub qaac..

 

wadaad gabadh yari waxay doonaysa inay ku aragto ..

 

baa laydhi baa layidhi baa layidhi..

 

waar anaa janada kaa hor gelaya

maya anaa kaahor gelayo..

baa layadhi baa la yidhi

[Kowneyn]

Sister:

 

Let me explain to you in this fashion...Islam has two main branches...Sunni and Shia. The prophet scws said that he will leave two things behind which if we hold on to it we will not go astray: The quraan and the sunnaah.

On another occasion he mentioned two things (thaqlayn) that if we hold on to will save gaurd us, however this time it was: The quraan and his ahlul bayt.

 

By Allaah's will history did play out in accordance with the rasuul scws words: the difference between the shia and sunnis doesnot lie in the quraan, because we both have the same quraan.

 

In the original versions of shia and sunna as practiced by the early generations the distinction was that one leaned heavily on the recorded sunnah of the prophet scws while the other relied heavily and honored the ahlul bayt. I am not saying that sunnis ignored the ahlul bayt or that the shias ignored the sunnah...just that there was difference emphasis...

 

In time corrupt individuals using the name of sunnis or shias widened the rift. But suffice to say the difference at the core of correct shia and sunna lies merely in their emphasis in the second part of the which the prophet said was coupled to the quraan and which we should hold on to.

 

Muslims will eventually learn to honor both the recorded sunnah and the ahlul bayt of the rasuul scws as essential parts of whole and at that time differences will disappear inshallaah as Allaah and his prophet scws have promised.

 

Now, we come to tawassuf or sufism...this is part and parcel of the religion...both sunnis and shia have tawassuf.

 

What is tawassuf? tawassuf is knowledge of states of the soul and the purification of inner being or the heart...after all imaan is the affair of the heart. This knowledge is inherited from the rasuul scws...he was the great physician of the psyche of man and the great purifier of souls that turned the wretched tribesmen of arabia into a beacon of light for all humanity to witness and follow suit. Off course, like anything great there always copy cats or fakes and these imitators have fooled some pple and as always its important to use your judgement and rely on ALLAAH to guide to the right pple with this knowledge.

 

Unfortunately, in our age we have among us the wahhaabis and their off springs salaafis (selfishis) etc...who despise the awliya, the ahlul bayt and ignore and belittle this crucial part of islam...the purification of the inner self. When u see someone who dismisses tasawwuf, the awliya and the ahlul bayt off hand without qualifying correctly...know that this person is one of two an ignorant person speaking with out real knowledge or a shaitan... Remember a hardcore wahhaabi--is Shaitan Gadh-dheer...

As the rasuul scws warned us that when the hour is near there will rise pple who look and sport the sunnah on the outside but at their core or heart are shayaadiin. They are not enlightened by the light of islaam and interpret sharia and religious books in darkness. They hate tassawuf, the awliya, the salixiin and the ahlul bayt exactly because this...they are pple with the light of wisdom inherited from the rasuul scws to purify your inner state.

 

In sum, all muslims are one so long as they are true to the purpose of ALLAAH inwardly and outwardly. And this is the safest way to judge the muslim ummaah today. Except for deviant groups like the wahhaabis, salaafis hiding among the sunnis we can say hold your judgement on the rest of the ummaah wether shia and sunni...

 

let me say one last thing...The Quraan is one and its secrets are locked...Its unlocked by the recorded sunnaah of he rasuul and the spiritual inheritors of the risaalah (the ahlul bayt, awliya, ulema etc...).

 

Similarly the inner being is a hidden secret and the quraan is meant to purify that inner being and that process can be carried out best by the knowers of the secrets...the awliya, salixiin, ahlul bayt.

acuudu billaahi minal shaidani rajiim.

Bismillaahi Raxmaani Raxiim

 

Innama yuridullaahu an yud-hiba canka rijsa ahlul bayti wa yu dahirkum tad-hiira

 

Allaah wishes to eradicate the stains of evil, Oh The members of the household, and to clean you by a process of cleansing...says the above verse and u find in suratal waaqica.

 

Innahu la quraanul kariim, fi kitaabin maknuun, la yamassahu illaa mudaharuun

 

This is a noble Quraan, in a hidden (secret) book, and wont be touched except by those clean.

 

U cant experience the enlightment of islaam, the beauty and overwhelming glory of the quraan except by changing the state of your soul...

 

wa salaamucaleykum wa raxmatullaahi wa barakat

 

kowneyn

 

 

 

[Kowneyn]

Suratal waqica

acuudubillaahi minalshaidami rajiim

bismillaahi raxmaani raxiim

 

75.Falaa uqsimu bi mawaqicil nujuum

76.innahu la qasamun law taclamuuna al-cadiim

77.innahu la quraan ul-kariim

78.fi kitaabin maknuun

79 la yamasuhuna illaa mudaaharuun

80.Tanziilun min rabbil caalamiin.

 

By the promise of the lining of the stars

And this is a great promise if u know

This an honored(noble) Quraan

in a book hidden

untouched except by the cleansed (clean)

send down by the lord of the universe.

 

Perhaps...The stars have lined and the the hidden book will be touched by those clean by Allaah's process of cleansing and it will bring honor and nobility (Karaama) to the son of Adam again.

 

Iqra bismi rabbika lladii khalaq...Iqra wa rabbukal akram.

 

Ya uyuhalnaas taqu rabbakum inna zilzilata sacaatil shai' un cadiim....

 

Saddaqallaahul cadiim

 

 

Kowneyn

 

[Kowneyn]

Suratal waqica

acuudubillaahi minalshaidami rajiim

bismillaahi raxmaani raxiim

 

75.Falaa uqsimu bi mawaqicil nujuum

76.innahu la qasamun law taclamuuna al-cadiim

77.innahu la quraan ul-kariim

78.fi kitaabin maknuun

79 la yamasuhuna illaa mudaaharuun

80.Tanziilun min rabbil caalamiin.

 

By the promise of the lining of the stars

And this is a great promise if u know

This an honored(noble) Quraan

in a book hidden

untouched except by the cleansed (clean)

send down by the lord of the universe.

 

Perhaps...The stars have lined and the the hidden book will be touched by those clean by Allaah's process of cleansing and it will bring honor and nobility (Karaama) to the son of Adam again.

 

Iqra bismi rabbika lladii khalaq...Iqra wa rabbukal akram.

 

Ya uyuhalnaas taqu rabbakum inna zilzilata sacaatil shai' un cadiim....

 

Saddaqallaahul cadiim

 

 

Kowneyn

 

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Kowneyn:

 

Macalinka, did you come here to tarnish the Salaafis and praise the Suufis? We did very well know who is really on the right track of suna when it comes to a suufi and a salafi. We do very also know that some suufis went into extremism and incorporated every faith on earth by saying every religion is one. And also unbelievably they also further stated that they are within Allaah; Or that they are living with Allaah. Allaah forbid! I can further expose what suufis believe. It is beyond our Islaamic perception to hear what they hold dear and try to convince us.

 

And saying that the Quraan can only touched by the clean-persons, like medieval Christianity preached centuries ago believing their holy book is touched by only the priests, you are convincing us now that the Quraan can only touched by to those who learned. Anyone can touch the Quraanka Kariimka as long as that person has a ritual clean--clean-mind, clean-body, clean-thoughts, etc. Yes, the Quraan is a hidden book, but it is also a plain book without doubt:

 

"Here is a plain statement to men, a guidance and instruction to those who fear Allaah." {Al-Cimran, 138}

 

"And Allaah makes the signs plain to you: for Allaah is full of knowledge and wisdom." {Suuratul Nuur, 18}

 

And this one directly deals the likes of suufis and to those would rise later times:

 

"It is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not well-established meaning. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not well-established meaning. Seeking discord, and searching its hidden meanings, but no one knows its true meanings except Allaah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the message except men of understanding." {Al-Cimran, 7}

 

Suufis manipulated that above verse so much so. It is not that the Quraan not plain, but rather we affirm after all the Quraan is fully and completely only known to Allaah alone and Him alone, none else.

 

Wabilaahi Towfiiq!

________________

 

Macsalaama!!

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar (edited 03-07-2002).]

[Yusufaddie]

Miskiin i am also a murid and i can tell you, that not because some deviant sufis did bid'ah means that that is what tasawwuf is about? how hypocritical a muslim could bne for generalizing? If you want to say that tasawwuf is deviant because of the actions of a few! then all muslims are terrorist!!! don't you see what you are doing? it is the same that the kaafirs are doing to us now, GENERALIZING. I can say here in the Caribbean there are many Salafis and they are the reason why every jamaat in the caribbean has a split, because these self appointed ulema passes many fatwa on the jamaat and even make takfir on the members of the jamaat, WHICH I MAY ADD IS STRONGLY AGAINST THE SUNNAH!!!! My brother, division in ISLAM amongst your brothers is strongly prohibited, and about 99% of the salafis i live around thrive off of that. Even here in my jamaat there is a Salafi brother who cannot even say kalimah tayyabah properly but yet he passes fatwa. Even though the majority of salafis i meet shows such hostility (Even though allah says Islam is a mercy to mankind) i Know through my studies that salaafus-Salih is not like that. If you don't believe me, My wife is the daughter of one of the Salaf shiekh of Trinidad and he knows i am a murid, however he knows what tasawwuf is and he knows i am not deviant. If you love your brothers in islam, try for the sake of Allah and his deen to learn what tasawwuf is. According to sh. Maududi-" Tasawwuf and Islam goes hand in hand" and please stop generalizing for it is better for you if you don't.

salaam.

P.S. This is also why the ummah is so divided, because we cannot appreciate the views of our bretheren. Do you remember when the Sahabah had differences they respected each other views? even between halaal and haraam? such as the time AFTER the prophet death when the prophet gave the order to attack a tribe and other sahabah were of the opinion that the order died with Rasulullah? well the sahabah did not fight among themselves. Until a person calling himself a salafi display such qualities, i believe sufis and others will then call that person a salafi. Allah says - Iqtasamu bi hablillahi jamee'ah wa LAA TAFARRAQU BIHI!!!!

-" old on to the rope of ALlah and be not divided with it. Salaam

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Yuusuf:

 

I have nothing personally against suufiyah. What I detest is what some of them do. And worship. Ever heard darawiish {or as it is known in the West dervishes}? What some suufis practice is far from the Islaamic beliefs. And certainly, very far, far, far from the suna of the Nabi {s.c.w.}

______________

 

Macsalaama!!

[Kowneyn]

Miskiin-Macruuf:

 

Like I said the quran is a letter and a spirit. Its a book with an essence. Similarly Islam has an essence...Do you know what that is???

 

U pple have the nerve to call yourselves salaf (earliest generation of Islam) when u r a phenomenon of the last hour.

 

There is no denying that there have been impostors claiming to be sufis, who fooled some gullible pple. But like my brother here pointed out it is despicable hypocrisy to try to paint the real tasawwuf with the same brush. If u were honest u would concentrate on the true nature and purpose of tasawwuf and its great spiritual champions who Allaah established between intervals of Islamic history to revitalize his religion and to spiritually awaken the ummaah, and moreover to spread its blessed message among a greater number of mankind.

 

But Alas!, the followers of this deviant sect have learned too well the empty rhetoric of their western mentors. Like them they have fallen victim to their own propaganda and believe in their own lies. Understand wahhaabism is a disease of the heart and its primary symptom is hypocrisy. These pple are defective in their reasoning, lack deeper understanding and wisdom and are too stubborn and arrogant to seek help.

 

Understand also Islam requires has a core or heart and tasawuf deals with this aspect of islam. To attack tasawwuf is to attack the heart of Islaam. Similarly to attack the Sharia, the madhabs etc.., is to attack the physical body of islaam.

 

 

Kowneyn

 

 

 

[Kowneyn]

Miskiin-Macruuf:

 

BTW, What is plain to a person of deep insight and wisdom may be to a Wahhaabi a far removed secret.

 

If u had contemplated on the quraan u would have known that ALLAAH does point out regularly that its men of understanding that will be concious of his ayats and messages. How many ayats are qualified by statements similar to...wa ma yadakaru ilaa uluu-albaab etc. So although the signs are plain to see it requires a certain state of mind and heart to see them plainly.

 

Dont assume because I say something is in plain view that u dont have to wear ur glasses (if ur visually challenged) etc. to see it.

 

Again its the concrete and unidimensional thinking coupled with the arrogance, envy and jealousy in their heart(which prevents them from benefitting from those ALLAAH has guided).

 

Kowneyn

[Hibo]

i'm not into this discussion, but the name wahaabi cought my eye. was not sheikh muxamad ibn c/wahaab religious and well respected scholar.i thought only westerners use that name to divide muslims. and why some people are against him?.

peace

 

[This message has been edited by bulo (edited 03-09-2002).]

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Kowneyn:

 

We all do know there is absolutely nothing wrong calling salafis themselves to be a salafi. I am sure there is nothing wrong with that title. And by the way, most salafis prefer strictly to remain as Ahlul Suna Wa Jameeca. It is the people who are perhaps like you that are so loathsome and who are also name calling against the people of Ahlul Suna.

 

Brother, everyone with a clear sharp mind can distinguish between when it comes to choose the right suna path and who is on that path on these two people: salafi and suufi.

 

Behold carefully on these unspeakable stuff that suufis do:

 

• Dancing or whirling {thinking they are united with Allaah. Allaah forbid!}.

• Digri {as far as the suna goes, the Prophet would rather preferred if he was praised in a good way, not an annually gathered mawliid}.

• Mawliid.

• Saint over-praising.

• To praise those who died like kings.

• Not working {the Prophet worked and he does all his social life. He did not ignored to take care his family}.

• Denying the basics of life {Allaah gave you life and its pleasure, you should also enjoy it. Islaam is a balanced faith--a moderate one. A middle one. You should keep in this life as well as in the hereafter. You neither neglect either}.

• Eating jaad {soomaali and yemeni suufis do this}.

• Causing to allow suffer their bodies--not eating days and nights.

• Neglecting life completely and thoroughly.

• Not marrying {the Prophet married}.

• Asking for help those who passed away.

• Asking to intermediate on behalf of Allaah {Allaah forbid!}

Bidca! Bidca! Bidca! And don't tell me some suufis do this or that. Almost all do some bidcas.

 

Personally, I don't really call myself any name than to be a good Muslim who really follows his Prophet's path--the Suna. And If you think I am closest to the salafis, then it is all good. The salafis are the real followers of the Prophet.

 

Bula:

 

They are mad at Sheekh Cabdiwahaab because he wouldn't allow them to worship the Prophet's tomb. Walaahi. That is the very first and main thing they are really mad at. Also, the Sheekh told them digri with mawliid is wrong too.

_______________

 

Macsalaama!!

 

[Kowneyn]

Bulo:

 

Abdul-Wahhaab of Najd was not a scholar but a tool used by britian in fullfilling their evil inspired imperialist drive against rest of humanity. Like his fellowers today the salafis etc., he thought knowing something is the same thing as understanding it. He was a man who essentially despite having learned so much had superficial knowledge, unfortunately his ego was to enormous for him to take a backseat to those Allaah had given the wisdom and the insight. Therefore, he fell a victim to the predatory british spy agents who had infiltrated the ummaah to look for weak links to exploit inorder to unravel the ummaah from within.

 

The British intelligence(if predatory human can be called intelligent)had found such a specimen in M.AbdulWahhaab of Najd who was manipulated and trained to embolden a sickness he harbored in his heart (the sickness of hypocrisy that was suppressed in his subconcious to become manifest and worse to give it voice of legitimacy through the art of rhetoric and propaganda that the spy thought him. They found the populous in Najd ripe and receptive to their evil inspirations; furthermore, they were ready and willing to sow the seeds of mischief and dissension among the muslim ummaah, seeing that this provided a window of opportunity to expand their political power in the arabian peninsula. With their new version of corrupted islam that they hypocritically called purified they hoped to gain spiritual leadership of the ummaah as well. They fancied, planned and betrayed the ummaah, the rasuul scws and ALLAAH. But, alas! if they only understood they would have known they only contrived, conspired and betrayed themselves because ALLAAH's plan encompasses all plans. By the for plan, knowledge and will of ALLAAH they exposed the sickness of hypocrisy that lurked in their heart and by their mischief only further purified the ummaah.

 

Under the spiritual banner of hypocrisy and the political authority of the Saud family the Wahhabi Dynasty became established. From its center in Saudi Arabia and with the help of petrol dollars the wahhabism program of corrupting the core of muslims had mislead many of our contemporary muslims...who are not aware of the nature of this movement and assume anything coming from xijaaz (mecca and medina) and from bearded men who claim to be learned must be holy truth.

 

 

I would like to expand further on this subject but bulo if ur really interested in knowing the truth about Wahhabism and the dark influence among muslims.

 

visit this and similar sites: http://shell.spqr.net/islam/warning.html

 

And for the origin of Wahhaabism look no further than the book titled the "memoirs of a british spy" which the evil spy who be-friended, manipulated and mentored abdul-wahhaab wrote.

 

Read it for not only the fact it contains but to read it as the account of a human shaydan using the techniques that all shaydans jinn or man use: that is to utilize (wiswaas) the sickness hidden in our subconcious to fall from grace and guidance of ALLAAH...so that we become slaves to its sick desires and in the hereafter we are with it in the hell-fire.

 

Kowneyn

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