Constitutions of Kufr...

[Laba-X]

All of these constitutions claim that Islam will serve as the basic source for their Legislation, yet all that they do or legislate contravenes the very basic principles of Islam.

 

1. The Constitutional Oath

 

 

Somalia 1960:

Article 70

On assuming his functions, the President of the Republic shall take the following oath of loyalty to the State:

 

«In the name of God I swear that I will discharge faithfully all my duties as President of the Republic and defend the Constitution with all my strength in the interest of the Country and the Nation».

 

 

Somali TFG:

 

Article 42

Before assuming the office and duties of the President, the President elect shall take and subscribe to the oath of allegiance. Such an oath shall be for the due execution of his/her office in a manner prescribed herein: -

 

“In the name of Allah I swear that I will discharge faithfully all my duties as President in the interest of the people and that I will abide by the Charter and laws of the Somali Republic.

 

 

Somaliland:

 

Article 129

The Chairman of the Supreme Court, who is, at the same time, the Chairman of the Constitutional Court, shall administer this constitutional oath to any person who is obliged to take an oath under the Constitution before that person can assume his office. In the same way, he shall also take an oath to be administered by the President.

 

“I swear by Allah that I shall be true to the Islamic religion and my Somaliland country, and shall manage my people in equality and justice so long as I hold office.”

 

 

Puntland:

 

Article 97

Upon assuming functions, every high ranking officer shall take the following oath of loyalty to the Puntland State:

 

“In the name of Allah, I swear that I will respect the Islamic Religion, discharge all my duties faithfully in the interest of the people and will abide by the Constitution and the Laws.”

 

 

2. Freedom of Religion:

 

 

Somalia 1960:

 

Article 29

Every person shall have the right to freedom of conscience and freely to profess his own religion and to worship it subject to any limitations which may be prescribed by law for the purpose of safeguarding morals, public health or order. However, it shall not be permissible to spread or propagandize any religion other than the religion of Islam(*). [Note (*): As amended by law No. 16 of 29 June 1963]

 

 

Somaliland:

 

Article 33:

Every person shall have the right to freedom of belief, and shall not be compelled to adopt another belief. Islamic Sharia does not accept that a Muslim person can renounce his beliefs.

 

 

Puntland:

 

Article 24

No one can be forced to a faith; different from his/her believes.

The Muslim person does not have the right to convert from the Islamic faith.

 

 

3. Supremacy of the Constitutional Law

 

 

Somalia 1960:

 

Article 5

1. The organization of the State and the relationships between the State and other persons, public or private, shall be governed by law.

 

2. Administrative acts contrary to law and legislative acts contrary to the Constitution may be invalidated on the initiative of the interested party in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution.

 

 

Somali TFG:

 

Article 3

1. The Transitional Federal Government of the Somali Republic shall be founded on the supremacy of the law and shall be governed in accordance with this Charter.

 

2. This Charter for the Transitional Federal Government shall be the supreme law binding all authorities and persons and shall have the force of law throughout the Somali Republic. If any law is inconsistent with this Charter the Charter shall prevail.

 

3. The validity, legality or procedure of enactment or promulgation of this Charter shall not be subject to challenge by or before any court or other State organ

 

 

4. Duty to Observe the Constitution and the Laws

 

 

Somalia 1960:

 

Article 47

Every person shall loyally observe the Constitution and the laws of the State.

 

 

Somalia TFG:

 

Article 1.1

The right to exercise sovereignty shall not be delegated to any individual, group or class, and no person shall arrogate to him or herself, or exercise any State authority, which does not emanate from this Charter or any laws of the Land not inconsistent with this charter.

 

 

Somaliland:

 

Article 34

1. Every citizen shall have the duty, in accordance with the law, to strengthen the unity of the nation, the protection of the sovereignty of the state, and the defence of the country and the religion.

2. Every person has the duty to respect the Constitution and the laws of the country.

3. Every person has the duty to pay promptly his taxes and other duties as imposed under the law.

4. Every person shall have the duty to care for, protect and save the environment.

5. The law shall determine the punishment for failure to fulfil the duties imposed in Clauses 1 to 4 (of this Article).

 

 

Puntland:

 

Article 38

1. Every citizen obligated to strengthen the unity and safeguarding the sustainability of Puntland State.

2. Every citizen shall safeguard Islamic Religion, the Puntland Constitution, the State Laws and the due taxes.

3. Every citizen shall participate in the National Defense of Puntland State, whenever the State recalls to the duty of army services.

4. A law shall establish the punishment that arises from non compliance with duties mentioned in the 1, 2 and 3 of this Article.

 

 

5. The Majority Rules:

 

 

Somalia 1960:

 

Article 70

The President of the Republic shall be elected, by secret ballot, by the National Assembly, with a majority of two thirds of its members on the first and second ballots, or by an absolute majority of its members in subsequent ballots.

 

 

Somali TFG:

 

Article 41

1. The President shall be elected by Parliament through a secret ballot, with a two-thirds (2/3) majority of its members in the first round whereas in the subsequent ballots shall be by simple majority.

 

2. In the second round of the elections, only the first six candidates shall be eligible whereas in the third round only the first two candidates shall be eligible for the final Presidential election.

 

 

Somaliland:

 

Article 40

The House of Representatives shall consist of 82 members who shall be directly elected by secret ballot in a free general election.

 

 

Puntland:

 

Article 14

The party that wins at least by 51% of the seats in the House of the Representatives shall form the Government.

 

6. Legislative Power

 

 

Somalia 1960:

 

Article 49

The legislative power shall be vested in the National Assembly

 

Article 62

Delegation of Legislative Power

 

The Assembly may delegate to the Government the power to issue, on specified subjects or matters and for a limited period, provisions having the force 0£ law. In delegating authority, the Assembly may establish the policy and issue directives.

 

 

Somali TFG:

 

Article 28:

1. The legislative powers of the Transitional Federal Government of

Somalia shall be vested in Parliament

 

Article 33

Parliament shall discharge the following functions: -

© Making legislation ;

 

 

Somaliland:

 

Article 38

1. The legislative powers of the Republic of Somaliland are vested exclusively in the Parliament which shall consist of two Houses - the House of Representatives and the House of the Elders. The power to legislate cannot be transferred to anyone outside the Parliament.

 

2. All bills passed by the Parliament shall come into force when the President publishes them in accordance with the Constitution.

 

 

Puntland:

 

Article 43

1. The legislative power is vested in the House of Representatives.

2. The House of Representatives shall consist of 66 deputies elected by the people.

 

 

7. Foreign Relations:

 

 

Somalia 1960:

 

Article 6

1. The generally accepted rules of international law and international treaties duly concluded by the Republic and published in the manner prescribed for legislative acts shall have the force of law.

 

 

Somali TFG:

 

Article 69

1. The Transitional Federal Government of the Somali Republic shall uphold the rules of international law and all international treaties applicable to the Somali Republic and subject to the legislative Acts of Parliament, international laws accepted and adopted shall be enforced.

 

 

Somaliland:

 

Article 10

2. The Republic of Somaliland recognises and shall act in conformity with the United Nations Charter and with international law, and shall respect the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

7. The state of the Republic of Somaliland shall oppose terrorism (and similar acts), regardless of the motives for such acts.

 

Puntland:

 

Article 11

3. Puntland Regional Government recognizes and applies the UN Charter and the International Laws and respects the International Appeals for human rights, not contrasting the Islamic Sharia and Puntland Laws.

 

4. Puntland recognizes and applies the Charter of the Organization of African Unity, the Arab League, and Inter Governmental Agency for Development (IGAD) and the Organization of Islamic Co-operation.

 

 

8. The President:

 

 

Somali TFG:

 

Article 36

1. When a Law has been passed by Parliament, it shall be presented to the President for Assent.

 

2. The President shall, within twenty-one (21) days after the Law has been presented to him/her for assent under sub-section (1), notify the Speaker that he/she assents to the Law or refuses to assent to it.

 

Article 44

The President shall have authority to: -

(b) Assent and Sign into law, legislation passed by the parliament and regulations and decrees approved by the Council of Ministers;

 

 

Somaliland:

 

Article 77

4. Any bill passed or approved by both Houses of Parliament on a 2/3s (two thirds) majority or more shall not be referred back (to the Parliament) by the President who shall thereby sign it. If the President considers that the bill is in conflict with an Article or Articles of the Constitution, he shall inform the Speakers and the Attorney General, who shall refer it to the Constitutional Court.

 

6. If the President fails to sign a bill forwarded to him by Parliament within the requisite period, and has not referred it back to Parliament, then the bill shall henceforth become law, and shall be promulgated by the House which forwarded it (to the President).

 

 

Puntland:

 

Article 54

The president:

7. Shall have the power to grant amnesty and burden and commuting sentences after having received.

 

15. The President shall have the power of rejection of those legislative lows presented by the House. The President should clarify the reason of his rejection (see 47.15).

[-Serenity-]

Hey Laba-X, long time no see!

 

I cant say half the stuff above comes across as kufr at all. Also, dont see the issue with conforming to international law/charters as long as they are not in direct conflict with the Sharia, Quran and Sunnah.

 

Curiously, is there such a thing (articles) as a uniform/basic Islamic constitution?

[xiinfaniin]

Quick points.

1) There is nothing wrong in swearing to defend a constitution or a cause or even pledge loyalty to someone if the sources of the constitution or legitimacy of the cause or the integrity of the person is deemed right. Case in point: some armed groups that fight in the name of Islam pledge loyalty to Usama bin Laden because they deem him a leader.

2) The ‘making legislation’ clause in the constitutions LX cited is not a problem as long the said law is inline/or does not contradict its source, which is the shareecah Islamiyah

 

Halkaas bay LX kaga jabtay

 

edit:

 

I have been on the boards of many Islamic institutions, and all of them have by laws. We dont swear upholding them, but it's impicit we follow them to the letter and our sheekhs lead us

[xiinfaniin]

Calling Somali [sL, PL, and TFG all have similar distoors] constitutions, constitutions of Kufr shows the depth of ignorance our brother LX has reached.

 

Ilaahow soo hanuuni

[Laba-X]

^^ Aamiin Ilaahay hana soo wada hanuuniyo dhamaanteen insha-Allah. Laakinse instead of calling me ignorant and resorting to insults, it would have been great f you were objective. Personally, I wouldn’t say that you are dwelling in the depths of ignorance; awfully misguided, but not ignorant.

 

And it is because of your influence of, and inclination towards the Aqeedah of Irjaa why you tend argue for the legality of the Dastur, Ruling with other than what Allah has revealed, Alwalaa wal Baraa, etc, despite the fact that the majority of the scholars are upon a general consensus that these are all forms of Kufrul Akbar which dispel one from the realm of Islam; which means that taking an oath to uphold such a constitution as the current TFG one is clear Kufr. No one that I know of argued for what you argue for except that he is clouded by severe bouts of Irja.

 

You are swimming in a mud puddle, saaxib, with the wave of Irja obfuscating your reasoning and sight, so much so that you cannot see the clear stream beside you, yet you call others ignorant. And If indeed I were an ignorant deviant for holding these views, and you know that I haven’t started a new form innovation but simply picked up the views from the writings of scholars, then wouldn’t it be pertinent to label all those who harbour such views with the same label? Would you call the scholars such as Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyim, Ibn Baaz, Ibn Katheer, Ash-Shanqiti, At-Tabari, Axmad Shaakir, Shawkani, hamud Ibn Uqala, Qurtubi, Al-khudayr, Ala-Shaykh, Al-ulwan, Al Ghunayman, Ibn Humayd, Ibn C.wahaab and all the scholars of Najd, and all the various scholars who reached the same conclusion ignorant for holding these views?

 

I have simply regurgitated what the above scholars said on these boards: that Ruling besides what Allah has revealed is Kufr, that legislation is the sole domain of Allah and Dastuur is Kufr, that any form of alliance with the Kufaar and against the Muslims is Kufr. So they must be ignorant according to you?

 

I have repeatedly warned you of Taqlid or being attached to a scholar and blindly following him whether right or wrong and I warn you again and again that Taqqlid will damage you saaxib, but you heed not!

 

Research into the matters if you are sincere, instead of endlessly arguing for Baatil! Waa iga Nasiixa ahaan.

 

Serenity, glad to see that you are still alive! Life has been rather hectic here, but all is going well.

 

You cannot conform to laws made by a Kaafir, Serenity, and the international laws/charters are not, even in the slightest, in conformity with the Qur’an and Sunnah – they are poles apart!

 

Wa billahi-t-tawfiiq

[Nur]

Nomads

 

 

This discussion needs some structuring, let me try to help inshAllah.

 

The poster of this thread, Laba X, maintains that although all of the constitutional laws in Somalia, Somaliland, Puntland claim that Islam is the basic source of the legislation, the actual articles that follow that statement act contrary to the Islamic Sharia and the Sovereignty of Allah represented in the principle of Tawheed.

 

For this discussion to be healthy, what we need from anyone refuting the writers point of view, is the following:

 

1. Are all the articles in the constitution Sharia Compliant?

 

2. Are all the articles in the constitution Aqeedah Compliant?

 

Note: In this context, Shariah governs the practical human-human relationship aspects such as rights, responsibilities, processes, structure, etc. while Aqeedah governs the Human - Divine relationship of Sovereignty, Supreme Authority blessing the constitution which validates it and acts as the authority that interprets it for application(The question to ask here: is it the people who are elected as lawmakers who reserve the right to legislate, or is it Allah SWT, their creator's revelations( Quraan and Sunnah) interpreted by the Ulema and Fuqahaa)?, .

 

 

The outcome of the above could be one of four cases:

 

1. Shariah Compliant, Aqeedah Compliant ( Real Authority and Real Legislation belong to Allah ALONE)

2. Shariah Compliant, Aqeedah Non-Compliant (Real Authority belongs to the people, Sharia is fully applied, but the people reserve the right to change the Sharia at a later time by virtue of their collective supreme Authority aka Democracy)

3. Shariah Non-Compliant, Aqeedah Compliant (Real Authority belongs to Allah, Other laws used intermittently with Sharia coating)

4. Shariah Non- Compliant, Aqeedah Non- Compliant ( Both Authority and Legislation belong to the people)

 

 

A. The first case is the right one

B. The Second case and the last case , are clear Kufr

C. The Third case , is NOT KUFR, it is a MAJOR SIN, its precisely here where the Khawaarij lost their way, this sin or ailment needs a workshop to be rectified for the constitution to become fully Sharia Compliant. (Aqeedah Compliance means that the people accept Allah's Supremacy without challenge, and that the non-compliance to the Sharia was caused by ignorance or a lack of knowledge, once the problem is presented, if the people accept Allah's authority, it reflects their Aqeedah compliance, if on the other hand they reject, it reflects their non compliance to Allah's authority, hence non compliance to Aqeedah, hence Kufr. For a detailed classification of Kufr, Nifaaq and Islam, refer to my old Aqeedah thread originally written back in 2002 below)

 

A reader confused about her contradictory beliefs and actions once wrote me the following question for which I have responded as below:

 

Am I A Munafiq?

 

For which I responded with the following article:

 

Well, that is a difficult question, first let us learn the relationship between iimaan, sin and kufr to see where Nifaaq belongs.

 

 

1. No Soul will go to Jannah if it hasn't surrendered to Allah's Authority, hence not a Muslim(a)

 

2. No one can be Muslim without Shahaada ( Declaration of Allah's Absolute Supremacy, Sovereignty and Unity(Tawxiid)

 

3. Shahaada is information, we are required to believe in and bear witness thereof.

 

4. The test to see if we indeed believe in information represented by the Shahaada are our deeds:

 

So our faith is composed of a

 

A. set of Information we are required to believe.

 

B. Set of Commands we are ordered to obey

 

The extent of your belief in the information that our Prophet SAWS delivered is measured by the extent of orders that we obey.

 

In other words, our obedience to the orders of Allah, is a reflection of our belief in the information delivered to us.

 

So , Islam is composed of a two sets:

 

A) A set of information to be believed in, like Allah, Day of Judgement, Jannah, angels, etc .

 

B) A set of orders to abide with, such as Prayers, (Salat), Fasting, Upholding Justice, etc .

 

The orders are subdivided in to two categories:

 

1. Orders to DO something Like " Establish Regular Prayers, Judge According to Allah's Revelations of Quraan and Sunnah)

 

2. Orders to stay away from doing something (Do Not Kill, Do Not Lie, Do not get close to Zina, etc)

 

 

First Scenario:

 

If Allah orders us TO DO something, and we fail to comply, the reason could be:

 

a. We do not believe in the information i.e. Allah's Sovereignty ( SAMAD), and Supremacy of Sharia.

b. We believe in it but we are arrogant We believe in the Supremacy of Sharia but we insist on using our man made laws

c. We are MENTALLY CHALLENGED ( Too much Miraa, Qaat, Khaat Alcohol, or fermented Camel Milk)

 

If (a) that is clear Major Kufr

If (b) That is also kufr Juxuud, the type of Sheitan, who believed in Allah yet isisted on disobeying Allah's order to bow down for Adams respect.

If © Our case is similar to a mentally challenged person, we are not responsible for our actions or lack of.

 

 

Second Scenario

 

If Allah orders us DON'T DO something, and we don't comply, we have the following scenario:

 

a. We do not believe in the information b. We are arrogant

c. We can not resist temptation Like a Court Judge making a wrong judgement for Rer Qansax, momentarily blinded by influence of camel milk

d. We are MENTALLY CHALLENGED

 

All but case © are covered above.

 

If case ©, then that is called disobedience (Sin)(Macsiyah) and it is what Adam and Eve , (Xawaa) aleyhimaa assalaam have committed. It does not make one a kaafir by itself. (The Khawaarij are the only to claim that a sin can make one a Kafir )

 

To generalize the above.

 

If a person does something he is ordered NOT TO DO , the driver is more likely weakness against temptation, and that person is not a kaafir, this is the case of Adam and Eve, Aleyhimaa assalaam .

 

If a person refuses to comply with something he is ordered TO DO the driver of his action is more likely arrogance, like the case of Sheitan, Arrogance challnges the Authority of Allah and His sovereignty, hence the Kufr al Kibar

 

Now we visit a new territory:

 

There is a principle for detecting iiman ( Faith) levels developed by Sheikh Ibn Taymiyah. Called (Talaazumul Dhaahir wal Baatin )( Synregy of the Apparent actions of a person with the Hidden Motives within the consciousness )

 

I will simplify it for you again.

 

The inside beliefs and the outward actions of a person are always working in harmony. Except when an outside disturbance influences that person attention. When as a result, the outwardly actions of that person projects and acts contrary of what is supposed to be inside .

 

Meaning.

 

In Systems Science, when we input a signal into a balanced system, we observe an output that reflects the shape of the original signal output + the function of the signal that operated on the system.

 

In the absence of outside disturbance, we can always predict the output. But when an outside element disturbs the system, the output will not be predictable.

 

A person who is a kaafir therefore will normally act as a kaafir. Sabeelul kaafireen

 

And a person who is a Muslim will always act like a Muslim. Sabeelul Mumineen

 

In general, if you leave anyone alone, what he/she does is reflecting what they believe . But the minute that person feels that he/she is being observed, that feeling will somewhat effect the action of that person.

 

An example is when you catch a child making funny faces on a mirror the child will immediately alter his behaviour to an acceptable manner. This is called conforming.

 

End of Am I A Munaafiq Topic

 

 

What we need in this argument is to refer to the above as a reference model to either prove or disprove the writers conclusion, and that will be the appropriate scholarly way of discussing an issue as important as the constitution of Somalia.

 

 

Nur

[xiinfaniin]

^^Nur, you promised that you are going to respond to the dawlah riddah thread, maaha?

 

Please don’t waste your time on parallel threads, offering shallow commentaries on this weighty issue. It requires more than hebel waa gaal iyo dawlad fulaan waa gaalo.

 

There is no debate to be had here as far as I am concern. It's another takfeeri shout

 

LX, you are at it again. What you are saying, ya LX, is what the typical Keligii Muslims say all the time. It’s what is used to justify the blood of Muslims near and afar.

We have expounded this issue on the Dawlah Riddah thread, giving you what scholars said about this question, but you clearly chose to propagate the takfeeri ideologies, whose violent manifestations Somalia is experiencing today.

[Nur]

Akhii Xin

 

InshAllah I will post my response on that thread which is very much related to this topic from the Aqeedah perspective.

 

Inshallah, I will also continue these "Shallow commentaries" hoping that simple people like me, who are confused by your "deep commentaries" will sort out their confusion.

 

 

Nur

[Laba-X]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

LX

, you are at it again. What you are saying, ya LX, is what the typical Keligii Muslims say all the time. It’s what is used to justify the blood of Muslims near and afar.

We have expounded this issue on the Dawlah Riddah thread, giving you what scholars said about this question, but you clearly chose to propagate the takfeeri ideologies, whose violent manifestations Somalia is experiencing today.

Yaa Xiin, Allaah says in the Qur'an wa idaa qultum facdiluu and in another verse walaa yajriman-nakum shana'aanu qowmin calaa an-laa tacdiluu, icdiluu huwa aqrabu lit-taqwa Be just and do not let things become personal akhi, do not let your differences between individuals compell you to transgress against them. If you can't defend your position with evidence, resorting to declaring them takfeeris/Khawaarij is not a solution.

 

You say I am propagating a Takfeeri ideology - what you are saying in fact is that the ideology of the scholars I have cited is a Takfeeri one! I have presented you the evidences from 20+ scholars, all whom are considered Kibaarul Culamaa, but of course you chose to call their Aqeedah a Takfeeri one. Wallaahi you are transgression has reached a new low.

 

Your Aqeedah is tainted with Irja, yaa Xiin, and you have the audacity to call the ideology of Kibaarul Culamaa a Takfeeri one!

[xiinfaniin]

Allah @Nur's scorn

 

Seriously Nur, it’s a shallow commentary when you post a Guardian article written by Terry Eagleton, as a response to a serous question of suicide bombing and the Islamic (theological) perspective pertaining to it. To be sure such an article can be useful for feeding the sense of injustice felt by the Muslim masses around the globe. It does very little to contribute however as to whether the said act is permissible from a theological standpoint.

 

 

LX,

How can I debate with you when you don’t even understand the implications of what you are saying from a theological perspective?

What does it mean to say an entity is a dawlah riddah?

What does it mean to say Somalia’s constitution is a constitution of Kufr?

What does it mean to say current Somaliland’s constitution is a constitution of Kufr?

What does it mean to say current Puntland’s constitution is a constitution of Kufr?

How about the constitution of Yemen, Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc? Are they all constitutions of Kufr? What is the religious implication of such verdict?

 

Do you understand what you are saying adeer?

 

 

Of course I know that you are propagating a Takfeeri message that deems all entities kufr based on the Takfeeri understanding. I shared with you the tafseer of the verse they cite. I shared the salafi exegesis of the jurisprudence of Takfeer. But you are resolved to push certain views. And BTW, I don’t know you as person, but the LX persona is dangerously misguided about what it means to be Muslim, the priorities of Muslims, and even the objectives of Islamic religion. And that my friend I derive from the writings and postings of SOL.

[Nur]

Akhi Xiin

 

I've posted that article on the Suicide bombing thread, not this one, my intention was fro the record only as the article dated back to 2005, its relevance was not as an answer to questions you have raised, but a substantiation of the point of view that utter injustice is one of the drivers of this phenomena, mind you, i do not agree with all the issues that I post, just parts of them, and i leave everyone to make their minds on what the writer means. Remember, as we read an article, each one sees a different perspective, and in a discussion board like this one, the more of these perspectives the more enriching.

 

What I intended you to comment was my above article about the Kufrness of the Constitution. I kindly ask you to read slowly, and post your comment on it.

 

 

Nur

[Sherban Shabeel]

Personally, I have a problem when people only see what they want to see.

 

I've said this before to Laba-X. but my question has gone un-answered.

 

Stop singling out the TFG to justify your ludicrous struggle! According to your very reasoning, every Muslim government on this Earth is guilty of Kuffru-l Akbar. What is your suggestion? That Al-Shabaab liberate them all?

 

Please!

[Laba-X]

Xiinow, a little learning is a dangerous thing adeer, especially when coupled by blind following!

 

I know fully well the implications of what I am saying Adeer, and I trust the knowledge of the scholars I cite. The question is, are you aware of the implications of what you write. You are asserting that all these culamaa are Takfeeris!

 

As for the questions you listed, all of the rulings of these countries are based on constitutions derived from western laws along with portions of the Shariah (keep reading to find out who declared this verdict) And ruling besides what Allah has revealed is Kufr as the scholars have agreed.

 

But because of your Taqlid and blind following, you are stuck with Sheikh Ibn Baaz condition of Istixlaal in the ruler’s heart And Sheikjh Albani’s Kufr Duna Kufr, and ignore the verdicts of all the other Culamaa – where the majority have issued the verdict that ruling besides what Allah has revealed is not only Kufr but rather complete Istibdal of the Shariah as Sh. Fawzan, Ibrahim Aala-Shaykh and others pointed out.

 

And since I am propagating their ideology, and you were quick to claim that this is an ideology of Takfeer, then it is up to you to prove that! This is a mounting burden upon you ee meeshaad ka geli layad raadso sheekhow!

 

Also are the scholars I have cited not scholars of the Salaf?

 

 

Ponder on these for a moment:

 

• Siciid Ibn Jubair, Taa’us Ibn Keysaan and Ibrahim Al-nakhaci declared that Xajaaj Ibn Yusuf was a Kaafir.

 

• Some of the scholars of Saudi Arabia declared Siyaad Baare and Ata Turk before him to Kuffar

 

• Sheikh Ibn Baaz, Sheikh Cuthaymeen, and many other scholars declared the president of Tunis, the president of Libya (qaddafi), the late president of Iraq (Saddam), the president of Syria (Xaafid al Asad) to be Kuffar

 

• Sheikh Muqbil declared thos Xukuuma in Eden to be Kuffar and called the rulers in the Muslim countries to be the enemies of Shari’ah

 

• Sh Ibrahim ala-Shaykh, the late Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Sheikh maxamud Rashid Ridha before him declared that any country where the rule that governs it is besides what Allah has revealed to be Darul Kufr where it is obligatory to migrate from!

 

• During Fitnatul khaleej, the Scholars of Saudi Arabia declared that the only country that ruled according to the Qur’an and Sunnah at that time was Saudi Arabia and that all other Islamic countries were being governed by Kufr constitutions and man-made laws. This means that all these countries, except Saudi, were declared Diyaarul Kufr because of their Istibdal of the Xukm of Allah to Qawaanin al-Wadhciyyah. Go read on the events of Fitnatul khaleej.

 

As for Saudi Arabia, read Al Kawaashif al Jaliyyah fi Kufr Dawla as-Sacuudiyyah – two volumes

 

• The Tartars attacked the lands of Islam in Shaam and other places, Shaykhul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah declared them apostates who should be fought before the original Kuffar are fought. (Majmuc al Fatawa 28/530)

 

• Ibn taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyim, Nabulisi, and many other scholars declared the Cubaydiyyin to be apostates, despite the fact they manifesting all outwardly sings of Islam. They only did not rule by Shari’ah (Al-Nasr cala Misr by Ibn Qayyim)

 

• Mohammad Ibn Abdillah, the king of Marakech sought the help of the King of Portugal against his uncle Abu Marwan and the Maliki scholars declared him an apostate. (Al-istiqsa 2/70)

 

• The ruler of Seville (Souther Spain), Al Mu’tamid ibn ibaad, sought the help of the Kuffar against the Muslims and the Maliki scholars declared him an apostate (Al-istiqsa 2/75)

 

• Some of the tribes in Algeria assisted the French against the Muslims so the Jurist of Maghrib, Abul Hasan at-tasuli, delivered a legal verdict pronouncing the Kufr. (Awjiba at-tasuli ala Masa’il al-Amir C.qadir al-Jazaa’iri 120)

 

• The British and French oppressed the Muslims in Egypt and elsewhere, so Shaykh Ahmad Shakir delivered a legal verdict imputing Kufr on whoever assisted them in any way shape or form. (Kalimatul Haqq, 126)

 

• The jews took over Palestine and some Muslims who ascribed Islam assisted them, so the committed for legal verdicts at al-Azhar under the heading of Shaykh Abdul Majid Salim issued a legal verdict in 1366 declaring whoever assisted them to be a kaafir

 

• The communists and Socialists increased in the Muslim lands and some of those claiming Islam assisted them, so Shaykh Ibn Baaz issued a legal verdict declaring whoever assisted them to be a Kaafir. (Majmucal fatawa 1/274)

 

 

Go ahead and call them Takfeeri’s for making Takfeer on Muslims then if you will!

 

Because you don’t understand the concept of Takfeer and simply happen to go along with your teachings of Irja, so you fail to differentiate between Takfeer Mucayyan such as the examples I gave above and the general Takfeer (cumuum) of Muslims. The issues we discussed were specific, i.e a specific ruler who rules besides what Allah has revealed or allies himself with Kuffar, etc and you label me as well as the 20+ scholars as Takfeeris.

 

Now, Answer me this:

Do you understand the difference between Masaa’il al Furuuc and those of Al Usuul? Is declaring, for example, Saudi Arabia an apostate state from the Masaa’il al Furuuc or Al Usuul?

 

 

Intaa hadey ku deeqi weydo sow maaha:

 

All left for me to say is Walaa taziru waaziratun Wizra ukhraa I will be held accountable for my deeds and you yours. I am free of what you do and you are free of what I do – each of us will be accountable only for his, so dhankaaga iska giiji adeer.

 

May Allah guide us to the right path!

 

p.s Once again, I warn you of Irja. Be ware of Irja for walaahi it will lead you to nothing but destruction. This is a sincere advice, akhi. Also research into the matters you aim to discuss for all has been discussed and debated by scholars.

 

Wabillati Towfiq!

[Sherban Shabeel]

Laba-X, with all due respect, can you please answer my question above?

[ailamos]

During Fitnatul khaleej, the Scholars of Saudi Arabia declared that the only country that ruled according to the Qur’an and Sunnah at that time was Saudi Arabia and that all other Islamic countries were being governed by Kufr constitutions and man-made laws. This means that all these countries, except Saudi, were declared Diyaarul Kufr because of their Istibdal of the Xukm of Allah to Qawaanin al-Wadhciyyah. Go read on the events of Fitnatul khaleej.

That says it all. What an exemplary country, if all the Muslim countries followed Saudi's example life would be bliss wouldn't it?