Somalina Posted February 12, 2011 US has spoken! more like their billion dollars have spoken! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted February 12, 2011 "Tonight we party. Let's leave the analysis for tomorrow. Tahya Masr", says one Egyptian. Heh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Che -Guevara Posted February 12, 2011 Prometheus...I just wanna go back to the something you said about the army being the guardians of secularism. How can the least democratic institution of the State be entrusted with such power and by making the army not answerable to the civilian rulers, aren't you in essence weakening the very institutions that are the bedrock of the democratic process? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted February 12, 2011 ^ Realpolitik requires temporary arrangements of this sort. Besides, I hope the military allows for freedom of the press, upholds individual liberties, and many of the familiar principles of free society. The things I have mentioned in my previous post aren't open to debate. People are free to hold whatever opinions they deem persuasive. But they are not free to enact such opinions into law, especially if it involves grotesque mob rituals like stoning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Che -Guevara Posted February 12, 2011 ^You alluded to Turkey's military. Since the founding of the republic, the 'secular' army staged four coups the last being in 1997.I think it's fair to say that's more than temporary arrangement. The army became so politicized that no piece of legislation gets passed without the consent of the generals and their cronies at the Constitutional Court and this was the era of militant secularism in Turkey where theoretically the institutions of democracy and free market liberalism should have been entrenched. The problem with entrusting undemocratic institution with the country's fate is that the institution looks after its interests first and that of the people second. In the name of defending secularism, the army was given unchecked powers which it used to its own benefits. Apart from current Islamist leaning Justice and Development Party, no Turkish Government was ever reelected consecutively. Every Turkish Government prior the rise of the Islamists came and went within the span of three years or less, not enough time to institute any meaningful social, economic and political change. Ironically enough, it's under the Islamists that Turkey's economy grew exponentially, its politics stabilized and stature rose joining the likes of Brazil, India and China. Even more interesting, it's under this Islamist Government that Turkish's accession talks was initiated. The point here is any ideology sustained by brute force and not derived from people's consent could be hardly considered fair and free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oz Posted February 12, 2011 Where is Layzie G? I like the idea of freezing....his assets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cawaale Posted February 12, 2011 Fourth Statement by the Egyptian Military: Egypt is committed to all international treaties (includes the peace treaty with Israel). Now clam down L.G. life is good :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cawaale Posted February 12, 2011 Sebeno ayaan sirnaa Sanka kaaga durnaa Salguug aaan ku noolaa Samo li'idaadu baahday Sinnaan li'aani dhacday Sed bursiinyadu shaacday. Sacad Sifihisii lumay Samir intaa noqay Siyadtak kaarhiinak Soco oo tag Samada u bax Sacuudigaa qabo Siibo oo Go'e Muwaadin Soomaaliyeed, oo la jadbeysay shacabka reer Masar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wyre Posted February 12, 2011 Cawaale;694692 wrote: Sebeno ayaan sirnaa Sanka kaaga durnaa Salguug aaan ku noolaa Samo li'idaadu baahday Sinnaan li'aani dhacday Sed bursiinyadu shaacday. Sacad Sifihisii lumay Samir intaa noqay Siyadtak kaarhiinak Soco oo tag Samada u bax Sacuudigaa qabo Siibo oo Go'e Muwaadin Soomaaliyeed, oo la jadbeysay shacabka reer Masar. Siyaad maxaad ka sheegtay waryee:p Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cawaale Posted February 12, 2011 Wyre, imikaad rabtaa in aad Guul-wadayaasha nagu soo tuusido. Naga daa yaahayooow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted February 12, 2011 Amin Camir just pays a fitting farewell picture Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiqikhayre Posted February 12, 2011 A telling Story to finish off with Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.O.R.F Posted February 13, 2011 Well done Egypt. The next president will be Amr Mousa. It will take a long time for things to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted February 14, 2011 Che, I concur with much of what you have penned. Ultimately, civilian control of the military is the only way to sustain free society. (The EU stipulates that this is one of the conditions and benchmarks that Turkey must meet if it wishes to join the European Union.) You have painted an unflattering (and inaccurate) portrait of the Turkish military. As in Egypt, the Turkish military is the most revered institution in that country. And contrary to the opinion of some ill-informed commentators, many of the coups that you mentioned were hardly unpopular. The military almost never clings on to power for long periods of time. Some of those coups were unfortunate, but necessary-- it involved the removal of islamist demagogues. Erdogan is hardly the first islamist politician. (Some even argue that he's too moderate to be called an islamist). Though the leaders of the AK party have unsavory islamist ties, they are much more moderate than most commentators would admit. And remember, a few years ago Erdogan's AK came perilously close to being disbanded and banned from politics altogether. The Constitutional Court - similar, though not entirely analogous, to the Supreme Court in the US - ruled against banning them by one meager vote. In my view, I think it's a good thing they survived political banishment. Fortunately, the AK doesn't advocate openly for Shariah law. Otherwise, they would have been rightly jailed and banned many moons ago. As far as their governance is concerned, it would be disingenuous to say that Turkey did not make progress under their rule. I have to call a spade a spade. But this economic progress has precious little to do with islamist ideas than sound economic principles. Hell, if islamists had their way, they'd probably criminalize interest (riba) and place all manner of limitations on free-market principles. The gradual rise of the economic status of Turkey, it's emerging economy, has nothing to do with islamist ideas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted February 14, 2011 Speaking of democracy, I received a hilarious email today from an Iraqi freind. It's a video of El-Qadafi. Imagine, for a minute, that he's a professor of political science. If any Arab leader needs to go, this demented dummy must be sent to an asylum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
