Jahiliyyah!

[Nur]

Continuation

 

Sister Warmoog writes:

 

Some of the worse fitan that have erupted within the Ummah since the mid-20th Century--particularly the emergence of groups like Takfeer wal-Hijra, the spread of neo-Kharijite thought among other people/groups besides them, and the spread of violent political movements--are known to have their roots in ideas and methods that were derived from or influenced by that false doctrine of Jaahiliyyah.

 

 

Ukhti,

 

When you accuse those you disagree with to be Kharejites, it would be fair that you balance this accusation by the way you depict those you espouse their train of thought as the Followers of the Khulfaa Al Rashidun ( The Guided Caliphs), Since many of your "Scholars" have endorsed Sheikh Shareef and his ilk , do they come across to you as the Othman Ibnu Affan Clan? The Caliph who met Allah as a Martyr when the Khawarij attacked him while reading the Holy Quraan which he took a tremendous credit for preserving Quraan? A Rule of thumb for now: When there is no Khilaafah, There are No Khawaarij!, from your perspective of obeying tyrants

 

The word Khariji, linguistically means dissenters of the rulers. If the rulers are good, like Othman Ibnu Affan, being a Khariji is bad, if the ruler is bad, like Sheikh Shareef and his ilk, being dissenter is good. Allah scolds people who blindly follow bad leaders in holy Quraan. As I have previously said, Qawm Caad were scolded for timidly following tyrants, also, the people of Pharaoh (Fircown) were scolded for obeying their tyrant, and in the day of judgement, hell bound people will tell Allah that their blind obedience to their corrupt leaders and masters led them astray from Allah's path.

 

So before you use the official media lines, use your head, because Allah will ask you why you did not use your head. Ask: Are the authorities who are accusing a given group for being Khawarij fair and justified? does the Sunnah agree with this classification? you need to think freely, because in the day of judgement, you will be judged alone, so try to please Allah alone, political correctness has its limits!

 

Now, if someone believes that you are Kafira, that is their business, that is the way they see you, they could be right or wrong, if they are right, thank them for the favor of awakening you to put your faith back on right track, if they are wrong, be kind to them by offering them an advice for correcting their wrong perception by way of wisdom and good advice as Allah SWT taught in Holy Quraan in Surah Ghaafir Verse 28 "......Wa iy yaku kaadiban, fa caleyhi kadibuh, wa iy yaku saadiqan, yusibkum bacdu ladii yacidukum". This is the way to be objective and cool headed.

 

You write:

 

Many scholars have clarified the truth and refuted that concept (as well as the other errors in Qutb's writings) so there is no good reason to believe in, defend, or propagate those errors.

 

Every story has two sides, I doubt that you have given Said Qutub a fair trial in your court, or read his scholarly masterpieces in Arabic to compare his thesis and his adversaries thesis on a plain ground in light of Holy Quraan and Sunnah. A Jury member can not be impartial to judge if he/she holds preconceived notion of the case he/she is asked to judge that are based on evidence presented by plaintiffs who are on the same side of a clearly corrupt and partial court of Law.

 

In Somalia and our neighborhood, we have suffered mob rule, and you are a witness were this mentality has brought us. As an educated sister, I expected more depth in your analysis and impartiality in the choice of your words as Allah SWT taught us in Holy Quraan " In case you dispute an issue, then, refer to Allah ( Quraan) and the Messenger ( Sunnah)", therefore no one is always wrong, nor always right, even if they had committed a wrong in the past (Think how Pharaoh denied the message of Moses May Peace Be Upon Him for his effort in freeing the captive oppressed descendants of Prophet Yaqub by accusing Moses of being a Terrorist? who killed an Egyptian ) In Logic, your tactics is called poisoning the well. So, don't try to use Sayid Qutb as an evil guy, and all other scholars who oppose him to be the good guys, this judgement is not for you to decide due to your lack of the fundamental knowledge and the language of discourse in this dispute, otherwise, it will be the Somali equivalent of " Waar Culimada Kala Qabta"

 

You write:

 

The statements of the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) demonstrate how the term Jaahiliyyah should be applied.

 

Ukhti, the word "Statements" is vague, try to be specific, otherwise it will be a wild goose chase.

 

You write:

 

He lived during a time when Islam had not spread beyond Arabia and he nonetheless applied the term in a restricted manner--e.g. in reference to specific statements or actions--and he did not use it in unrestricted or absolute terms unless he was referring to the period before the advent of Islam.

 

You mean he was careful not calling the Romans to be polytheists? on the contrary we all know that he was commanded in Quraan to call them " Qul Yaa Ayuhal Kafiroon, Laa Acbudu maa tacbuduun" there is no diplomacy in Islam. but there is politeness in saying the truth which at times can hurt feeling as most people are self righteous.

 

You write:

 

Those who do the opposite of his example are people who oppose his approach, either out of ignorance or in favour of their own whims and opinions (as if they know better). That is the root of their problem and the remedy is to return to the Sunnah.

 

Dear Sister, have you noticed that you have no substantiation for all of your claims? What example? which set of Hadeeths conclusively depict as the only example for referral? you repeat the need for Quraan and Sunnah as a guide, yet, you haven't cited a single verse or hadeeth, while I have done throughout my discourse with you so vividly. I agree with you that a return to Sunnah is the remedy, let us cite the Hadeeths in this regard to see if you are right in your claims.

 

 

To be continued...................................................

[Nur]

Summary of important issues raised by Sister Warmoog’s THIRD Point, rephrased for simplicity

 

 

Sister Warmoog writes ( Rephrased ):

 

Jaahiliyyah System as a whole is not necessarily all Evil nor at odds with Islam, some Jahili Aspects are good, some are evil and some are neutral which are in line with the Jahili Principles

 

 

 

Let us stick with the Definition of the word Jahiliyah.

 

Jahiliyyah is any system, way of life that is at odds or not conforming or complying with Allah’s revelations.

Islam is TOTAL Unconditional Submission and Surrender to Allah’s Sovereignty, its Allah’s revealed system and way of life for all human kind.

 

By Definition, any way of life approved by Allah is known as a Deen. Any way of life that is not approved by Allah is not a Deen.. Allah says in Holy Quraan, “ Inna deena cinda Allahi al Islam" , Good aspects found in a Jahili system have their roots in Islam ( Abrahamic Faith). Evil aspects are always genuinely Jaahili . Because Allah does not initiate Evil nor does He repeat it according to Surah Saba verse 49 "Qul Jaa'a Al Xaqqu, Wamaa yubdi ul Baatilu wamaa yuciid"

 

Warmoog Writes:

 

That is Sayid Qutb’s view, which divides the world as Islam and Jahiliyyah ( Good and Evil) is flawed. Sayid sees that Islam must stay distinct from Jahiliyyah, this is also another thought flaw that led some groups to interpret it literally to seclude from society.

 

Here you are making two interesting suggestions:

 

A. The world should not be divided along Faith lines, just National lines, which is the secular narrative.

B. That Islam should not stand distinct from Jahiliyyah.

 

These two statements are in total disagreement with the Hadeeth narrated by Sheikh Ibn Maajah from the companion Erbadh in which he narrated that the Messenger of Allah told them that he was departing from them ( Anticipating his death) and as a guide leaving behind for them AL BEYDHAA, or Al Mahajjah al Beydhaa. Al Mahajjah in Arabic means the Path, road, way. , while Beydhaa means, Clear, Distinct, something that can’t be confused or mixed with others, according to this Hadeeth, so distinct is this Mahajjah way, that its as distinct as the day is from the night, no one confuses them unless he/she is Haalik, a person who succumbed to Kufr.

 

Warmoog writes:

 

The holy Quraan did not view pe-Islamic society as a complete evil and corrupt society. The holy Quran did not treat Jahiliyyah system as “complete system” that has to be replaced with entirely new system.

 

I disagree here.

 

Allah SWT says in the second verse of Surah Juma : He is Allah who has raised among the illiterate ( Arab Tribes) a Messenger of their own ( Tribes, not a stranger), who recites for them (Allahs’) testaments ( Verses) although before this they were in TOTAL LOSS. Which means they were in COMPLETE EVIL according to your words.

 

Warmoog Writes:

 

Islam did not come as a new religion, Jahiliyah , Qureish and the people of the book who lived in Makka were followers of Abrahamic faith, therefore there was some good in their practices

 

 

Islam, as the true system ordained by Allah for mankind was never new in a sense, from the advent of the first human couple ADAM and EVE, to NOAH, and ABRAHAM, they were all compliant with Allah's Sovereignty, but from time to time , the message was forgotten due to residual sins which was tolerated by apologists and people would revert to Shirk and evil like the people of Soddom and Gomorrah who practiced abominable Homosexuality. Gradually, the Abrahamic Monotheism was replaced by stark polytheism, which became the supporting structure and system for social injustice, tribalism, alcohol, and of course tabarrujul jaahiliyah. This does not mean that Our Prophet SAWS conceded to, or accepted Jahiliyyah. When Qureish offered a compromise as a tactic to contain the new faith which they have perceived as running around Makkah wrecking havoc!, according to verse in Surah Al Anfal,V. 49 : Lo! the hypocrites say, and those in whose hearts is a disease: "These people,- their religion has misled them." But if any trust in Allah, behold! Allah is Exalted in might, Wise. " !, .

 

The Messenger of Allah said his famous decisive word " If they put the sun on my right palm, and the moon on my left palm, to halt this mission, I will never! , The Prophet has never reached a compromise that affected the core principles of the faith with Qureish which is what they wanted.

 

Warmoog Writes:

 

Absolute rejectionist stance that Jahiliyyah system is at odds with Islam has no basis according to the holy Quraan’ view of societies and cultures:

 

Allah SWT ordered His Messenger not to compromise with Qureish as they wanted the same that you are suggesting, namely not to disrupt the status quo, no matter how perverted it is, and to live in harmony with a radically different way of life of human concoction.

 

“Their desire is that thou should be compromising, so would they be compromising.” Al Qalam verse 9.

The Messenger of Allah told Qureish ( Mushrikeen) that there is no common ground with polytheists “To you be your Way, and to me mine” . While, on the hand he was commanded to get closer to the people of the book by saying : “Let us Come to a common term between us, that we do not serve nor give our allegiance to other than Allah, nor make him a shareholder with his creatures, and that some of us do not take others instead of Allah as their Lords ( Vested with Sovereignty) .

 

Lest we confuse the debate, the original question of this thread was the rejectionist stance of Jaahiliyyah to surrender to Allah by accepting his divine message, Laws and social norms. It was not about Islam's rejection of those who reject Allah, which is natural as Allah has instructed His Messenger.

 

Warmoog Writes:

 

The way the holy Quran dealt with the Jahiliyyah in Makka was in contrast with the way some Ignorant zealots (Suffering from Compound Ignorance ) are dealing with the “Muslim” societies as if they are like are Mushrikeen/ Kuffar.

 

 

The issue before us is not about how you feel, which is more emotional than intellectual. The issue is about the guidelines that a society must follow to be MUSLIM society and not a Jahili, which is what you have avoided so far with a barrage of red herring arguments that does not address the core issue under discussion, which is : If we find a society that have adopted secular laws, gave their allegiance to a flag and what the flag stands for, agreed that democracy is their Deen, and approved permissive social styles as well as unjust financial practices in conflict with Islam, can we call that society Jahili? For which you answer was : No, they are still a Muslim Society regardless of their actions.

 

 

To Be continued!

 

 

Nur

[Nur]

Sister Warmoog Writes:

 

" Fourth, the knowledge that Islam will return to being ghareeb and the idea that Muslim societies have 'fully reverted' to Jaahiliyyah, the latter of which is what Qutb's theory propounds, have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The first is from the Sunnah and the other is from a false theory that contradicts the revealed texts. That Islam will return to being strange is from the authentic statements of the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) and the hadiths describe who the strangers are. There are many scholarly explanations of those narrations, but Al-Ghurabah, a translation of Ibn Rajab's treatise on the subject, is particularly thorough in case anyone wants to benefit from it.

 

 

Ukhti, Language is a great tool for exchanging ideas, and also, if one is not careful, linguistic tantalizing acrobatics, can divert from their intended meaning. Ghurba in Arabic means " A Place one feels he/she does not belong to" you'd feel out of place, as a simple example, try to object to gay marriages in your western neighborhood and see how many people support you. Now, when the whole world is governed by a UN organization that is vested with the authority of passing moral values that are right and should be accepted by all member nations, and is based on votes by few powerful nations, and this organization sets the moral standard for the member nations who will be recognized by th UN. In this situation, you should feel really out of place, if not you should worry!

 

Islam is surrender to Allah's sovereignty at all times, ( Not A Part Time Job) .. Its not just a name we carry, if we surrender to other than Allah in deeds, even if we pray five times a day, we are in effect ascribing partners with Allah in practice. Worshiping Allah in Ramadan or praying in Masjids is useless if at the end of the day, our submission is to anyone or anything but Allah SWT This is very important.

 

But I am really surprised. How can you use Sheikh Rajab Al Hanbali's book " Kashful Ghumma fi wasf Ahlul Ghurbah" to support your argument that we should feel comfortable and happy in this Ghurbah which is synonymous with Jahiliyyah. This book's thesis is to console people like us who live in a time when those who disobey Allah overwhelm those who obey Allah, and as minority, this tiny group feels what the disciples of Jesus and the companions of the Messenger of Allah felt of isolation, injustice, torture, pain and insignificance.

 

Sister Writes:

 

 

"The strangers are explained as being those who will remain upon the Sunnah and rectify themselves or the people when/where there is corruption.

 

 

Ukhti, Allah SWT says in Quraan:

 

Do not make [your] calling of the Messenger among yourselves as the call of one of you to another. Already Allah knows those of you who slip away, concealed by others. So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment

 

Fitnah in this verse means KUFR, go read all the tafaseer. in other words, not obeying the Sunnah can lead to Kufr, ( An you and I know the problem is much bigger than not following the Sunnah) which entails a severe punishment in this life ( just see what happened to Somalia)! if its not cadaab, what is it?. And as for those who fled the Somali cadaab, they did not end up all in heaven, a great many of them ended up siding with those who oppose Allah's sovereignty increasing the ranks of Jahiliyah.

 

You Write:

 

To paraphrase its translation, the explanation of the ghurabaa hadith in Majmu' al-Fataawa Ibn Taymiyyah (Vol. 18, pg. 291-305) mentions that the return of strangeness can have two possible meanings: (1) Islam will become afflicted with obscurity and weakness similar to when it began and this condition will differ from time to time and place to place, such that it may exist in a particular place or during a particular period of time and not another; or (2) there will be no Muslims at the end of the world, except for a very small number, and this will occur after the appearance of the Anti-Christ, Gog and Magog, and very close to when the gentle breeze will take the souls of the believers."

 

Ukhti,

 

From frying pan to the fire!, to use Sheikh Ibn Taimia as a proof for your argument that there is no Jahiliyyah even if all four aspects of our discussion are violated, does not leave a lot of space for you to maneuver. Sheikh Ibn Taimiyaa who died in Jail and who gave Fatwa that anyone who follows the Law of Tartar rulers of Baghdad is Kaafir is not at yours corner in this intellectual boxing match! Sayyid also died in Jail (and his thesis was the same as Ibn Taimiya on obeying laws other than Sharia!) . Does this sound like a Déjà vu? The two Sheikhs ( Taimia and Sayyid) have a lot more in common than meets the eye.. But, attacking Sayyid serves an expedient purpose these days, while attacking Ibn Taimiyah would amount to a game changing or a disruptive attempt to reshape what Islam stands for. So, for now, all dogs are let lose to bark at Sayyid, and tomorrow, I will assure you that anyone with an iota of Tawheed will be the next target.

 

Obscurity means that people will confuse Islam with Jahiliyah, just like how you are now defending it. When the prevailing understanding of "what Islam is " are ideas like yours, that is when we know our train has arrived according to Sheikh Ibn Taimiyah Raximahu Allah. Sayyid Qutub simply showed the road map to Jahiliyyah Metropolis ( Macaalimun Fil Tareeq). His thesis is that when causes mentioned in Quraan and Sunnah take place, then, effects will happen. Now, if we see the effects, which we so vividly live, we know what caused them. To insist that what we see is Islam, and not Jahiliyyah, can in itself be a serious aqeedah flaw. Its like insisting that Islam and Jahiliiyah are the same. Good Scholars debate issues, bad ones, attack other scholars.

 

 

This short post is my last post, I pray that Allah show the way to all of us. Amen.

 

Nur