Qac Qaac Posted March 7, 2004 brother Sayfullah u r very possionate about this shiat stuff huh. but u r Sunni. anyways bro u challanged me, any country that fallows this who is sunni. well bro u right sunni countries don't fallow this Jacfari stuff that shiat has now... it was added lots of stuff from men's desire.. that is why sunni countries don't fallow this... but bro i challanged u, if u could find me one place that Imam Jacfar himself, said, that i am shiat... go find this for me pls? i'll wait.... Jacfari is a sunni teacher, he taught imam abu Hanifa u r right, and he is one of the Sunni madhabs, and we know shiat don't fallow abu Hanifah because he was so against them, but shiat has Jacfari as a madhab, is funny bro. that a student should be a proto type of his teacher right. there fore imam abu hanifah should be shiat too since he learned from shiat teacher, but rather we know he is sunni as they come. so what is wrong here, some one must be lying, and in this case Jacfari taught the sunni madhab that imam abu hanifah has, which makes imam Jacfar sunni since his students were all sunni, and none shiat.... again I CHALLANGED U, TO FIND FOR ME ONE PLACE IMAM JACFAR SAID, I AM SHIAT?.... u could even ask the shiat scholars if u want this issue... p.s. so next time don't challange me, with stuff that no one knows where they come from... because we could challange u too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mutakalim Posted May 7, 2004 Originally posted by Qac Qaac: again I CHALLANGED U, TO FIND FOR ME ONE PLACE IMAM JACFAR SAID, I AM SHIAT?.... u could even ask the shiat scholars if u want this issue... p Perhaps Sayfuallah chose not answer your questions Qaac Qaac. However, in the spirit of Islamic debate and discussion, I will answer all your queries. Your previous post was composed of lies, lies, and more lies. God willing, I shall visit you at Carelton University in the near future; and we shall at length debate our differences. At any rate, I shall abruptly finish now... With Salaams PK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qac Qaac Posted May 7, 2004 u still have no answer for me right loooooool anytime u like u could debate with me. i am ready. u assumed i lie, loool, and u don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rahima Posted May 7, 2004 The reasoning that Imam Jacfar was shiica because those who claim to follow him are shiica is similar to one agreeing that nabi ciise was a Christian because Christians follow him. I'm sure we all agree that such a premise is not only defective and but almost laughable. This discussion is almost like what the Quraysh said to Rasuallah (about them and their gods entering jahanama) in surah Zukhruf. Having that, it is clear that imaam jacfar is free from the claims of these people, and inshallah he was on the correct path of Ahulus-sunnah wal jaamac. The only reason that the shiica follow him is because he was part of the ahlul bayt. Anyway, I believe it is for those who make such an allegation (that the imam was shiica) to prove their claims. The burden of proof always lies with the affirmative side . So till then, the shaykh is innocent of all allegations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qac Qaac Posted May 8, 2004 tell him sis... thanks 4 the clarification. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haddad Posted May 8, 2004 I know what a madhab is, but I don't specifically know which one I follow. I can guess it could be the Shaafici, but I don't believe it's a critical issue that I have to know about. The tenets of Islam is practiced by followers of the four madhabs and the Shia; that's what matters. I know there are fringe elements of the Shia who cut themselves among other practices, but they represent a tiny minority. There are also fringe elements of the Sunnis who ask help from dead sheikhs/imams among other practices, but they also represent a tiny minority. The majority of Shias do not differ that much from Sunnis. Being affiliated to a particular madhab isn't a big deal in this age. Muslims know who their enemies are and the obstacles that stand in their way in order to regain their prestige and Islamic empire; what they foremost need to do is become assertive from Western influences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qac Qaac Posted May 8, 2004 Haddaad i would tell to go back and read islamic history books... and u'll see who was working inside muslim empire to weaken them... and the prallel u made doesn't make sense, sunni minory and shiat.. they are not same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted May 10, 2004 Innalhamdulillah...Wa salamu Alaykum....Wa rahmatullahi wa baarakatu However, I subscribe to the Ahlu Sunnah wel Jamaa'ah school of thought = people of the Sunnah and consensus ... madhab of the Prophet (saw) as understood by the companions and the 1st three generations. Mashallah Ameenah that would make u a Salafi... Interesting i was just reading a book called the evolution of Fiq(AKA the Evolution of the madhabs) However i think those who blind follow or ascribe themselves to a madhab should take a look at this! Sayings of the Imaam Regarding Following the Sunnah and Ignoring their Views Contradictory To It First Allah says: "Follow (O men!) the revelation given to you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends and protectors, other than Him. Little is it you remember of admonition." As for Imaam Maalik ibn Anas, he said: 1. "Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it." Ibn Wahb said: "I heard Maalik being asked about cleaning between the toes during ablution. He said, 'The people do not have to do that.' I did not approach him until the crowd had lessened, when I said to him, 'We know of a sunnah about that.' He said, 'What is that ?' I said, 'Laith ibn Sa'd, Ibn Lahee'ah and 'Amr ibn al-Haarith narrated to us from Yazeed ibn 'Amr al-Ma'aafiri from Abu 'Abdur-Rahman al-Hubuli from Mustawrid ibn Shaddaad al-Qurashi who said, 'I saw the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) rubbing between his toes with his little finger.' He said, 'This hadeeth is sound; I had not heard of it at all until now.' Afterwards, I heard him being asked about the same thing, on which he ordered cleaning between the toes." I tend to lean more towards the Maliki fiqh except in salaat bc I just can't seem to get used to praying with my hands by my side. Imam Maliki did not pray like that...as we have the complete way the prophet prayed in his Salah via Sahih Bukhari & the other Sahihs(he said pray as u see me praying)not like Malik or Shafiee or what not...He only prayed like that because he was beaten severly. So he was not able to move his hands any more cause he was ordered(by the Calipha of the of Umayyid or Abbassids whichever one it was) to make force divorce part of islam...He refused...thus he was beaten so much that he could not raise his hands anymore. Imam Abu Haneefah "When I say something contradicting the Book of Allaah the Exalted or what is narrated from the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then ignore my saying." [5] In another narration, "Woe to you, O Ya'qub! [i.e. Imaam Abu Haneefah's illustrious student, Abu Yoosuf (rahimahullaah)] Do not write down everything you hear from me, for it happens that I hold one opinion today and reject it tomorrow, or hold one opinion tomorrow and reject it the day after tomorrow." the Students of Imam Abu Haneefah after his death left and studied under Imam MAlik Ibn Anas...his two famous students like Abu Yusef Ya3qoob ibn Ibrahim and Muhammad Ibn AlHassan disgreed with Abu Haneefah in 1/3 of his rulings...why because hadith which did not reach Abu Haneefah reach them! As for Imaam Shaafi'i, the quotations from him are most numerous and beautiful [1],and his followers were the best in sticking to them: If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and leave what I have said." In every issue where the people of narration find a report from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) to be saheeh which is contrary to what I have said, then I take my saying back, whether during my life or after my death." THere are more then 4 madhab's 4 are known...but they are many more like Abdur-rahman al awza'ee,Sufyan Athawree, Althawr, Abu Layth...Few others which i cant remember... I also subscribe to the Ahlu Sunnah wel Jamaa'ah school of thought, the Kitab and Sunnah with the understanding of the first three generation =the Salaf Us Salih Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted May 10, 2004 Innalhamdulillah...Wa salamu alaykum wa Rahmatullah Guys madhabs are not problems, they are rahma for us, or mercy. there is a hadith that goes like this,"The disagreement among my ummah is a mercy." the Scholars say this about it: Manaawi quoted Subki as saying, "It (i.e. the saying) is not known to the muhadditheen and I cannot find any isnaad for it, whether saheeh, da`eef or mawdoo`", and this was endorsed by Shaykh Zakareeyyah al-Ansaari in his notes on Tafseer al-Baidaawi [92/2]. "This is one of the most incorrect sayings possible, since if ikhtilaaf were a mercy, then agreement would be a punishment, something which no Muslim would say, because there can only be agreement or disagreement, and there can only be mercy or punishment." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted May 10, 2004 Innalhamdulillah...Wa salamu alaykum Intro To Da'watu Salafiyah: the word "Salaf" was used by the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) himself. He said to Faatimah, " How excellent a Salaf I am for you. " (Muslim, no. 2450). :Thus that would make Faatimah a Salafi because she followed her father who was a Salaf The Imams Calling to the understanding of the Salaf(the SaXaabas and their students) Abu Haneefah (d. 150H) (rahimahullaah) said: "Adhere to the athar (narration) and the tareeqah (way) of the Salaf (Pious Predecessors) and beware of newly invented matters for all of it is innovation" [Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al Mantaq wal-Kalaam p.32] Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (d.241H) – rahimahullaah – said: "The fundamentals of the Sunnah with us are: clinging to that which the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) were upon, taking them as our examples to be followed, avoiding innovations, for every innovation is a misguidance." Usoolus-Sunnah (p. 5) of Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal. Ibn ‘Abdul Haadee (d.748H) – rahimahullaah – said: "It is not permissible to invent an interpretation about a verse or a Sunnah which was not their in the time of the Salaf (the pious Predecessors), nor did they have any knowledge concerning it, nor explain it to the Ummah. Since this would imply that the Salaf were ignorant of the truth in this matter and failed to reach it. Whereas the late-coming opponent is somehow guided to the truth!" as-Saarimul Munkee (p. 427). Imaam Ibnul-Qayyim (d.751H) – rahimahullaah – said: "Inventing an explanation with regards to the Book of Allaah – which the Salaf and scholars are in opposition to – necessitates one of two things: either the explanation itself is a mistake, or that the sayings of the Salaf – which differ with such a saying – are in error! And one who possesses even an ounce if intellect would doubt that the one whose saying is in opposition to that of the Salaf, then he is the one who is in error." Mukhtasar as-Sawaa’iqul Mursalah (2/128). Al-Awzaa'ee (rahimahullaah)(lived at the time of Abu Haneefah) said Follow the footsteps of the SALAF . . . "By clinging to their way, holding on to their beliefs and understanding the Deen (religion) as they did, worshipping Allaah in His Oneness, upon the Authentic Sunnah of the Messenger Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) in the manner of the Companions one is guaranteed success in this life and security from the Fire in the next life". lbn Taymiyyah (d.728H) - rahimahullaah - said: "There is no criticism for the one who proclaims the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf , who attaches himself to it and refers to it. Rather, it is obligatory to accept that from him by unanimous agreement (Ittifaaq) because the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf is nothing but the Truth (Haqq)." [Majmoo al-Fataawaa 4:149] Imaam al-Awzaa'ee said, "Patiently restrict yourselves to the Sunnah, and pause where the people paused, say what they said, and avoid what they avoided. Take to the path of the Salaf (predecessors), for indeed, what was sufficient for them is sufficient for you." [ash-Sharee'ah p58] Imaam adh-Dhahabee (d.748H) - rahimahullaah - (student of Ibn Taymiyyah) said: "It is authentically related from ad- Daaraqutnee that he said: There is nothing more despised by me than 'irnul-kalaam (innovated speech and rhetorics). I say: No person should ever enter into 'ilmul-kalaam, nor argumentation. Rather, he should be Salafee (a follower of the Salaf)." [siyar 16/457] Allah: And whoever opposes the Messenger after the guidance has been made clear to him, and he follows a way other than the way of the believers,(companions) We will turn him to what He has chosen and land him in Hell - what an evil destination.(4:115) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salma Posted May 10, 2004 Sub7an allah i thought all Somalis are Sunni and Shafici too. Honestly i was so proud of that;the Only Muslim country that all its nation are Muslim + Sunni + Shafi3i. It would be so difficult if our Somalia that suffered and still suffering from Qabeel problems would have also 6a2efeyah and math-haybeya :confused: I hope Allah prevent us that By the way, Muslims used to be All Sunna all at the time of our prophet mohammed peace be upon him, but the story of the Shica sect began during the Age of the Caliph Cothman bin Caffan may allah be pleased with him and exploded at the time of the Caliph Cali bin abi Talib may allah be pleased with him and his two sons AlHassan and AlHussain May allah be pleased with them. And also the criminal Abdulla Bin saba(The uncovered Jewish Yemini) is the one who provoked all the problems and this seperation between all the muslims today. Jews are behind all troubles. I think iam against shi3a coz they hate Abo Baker al sadeeq, comar bin al khattab, cothman bin caffan (May allah be pleased with them) and hate also caysha bint aby baker and xafsa bint comar bin al khattab (May allah be pleased with them), i always used to hear that they curse them and hate them, and i used to not to believe it, till i heard a cassette by a sheci shiekh,i got shocked and couldnt hear the rest of the tape. Peace in Somalia and all the Islamic World Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted May 11, 2004 Innalhamdulillah... Jews are behind all troubles. When in doubt Blame the Jews! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salma Posted May 12, 2004 Originally posted by Salafi_Online: [QB] Innalhamdulillah... When in doubt Blame the Jews! . Thats a historical fact Salafi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haseena Posted May 13, 2004 "Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took."Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal(rahimahullaah) "The Muslims are unanimously agreed that if a sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is made clear to someone, it is not permitted for him to leave it for the saying of anyone else."Imaam Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
