When was Mutta Prohibited??

[zainabia]

Originally posted by Danger.:

Here is another book of Legislations (Axkaam) written by Khumayini (another leading Shiah scholar) authorizing "anal sex", and pedophilia ??? the guy went as far as allowing sexually molesting "infants" !!!!!

So are you going to claim the Saxabah used to do what this jaahil is authorizing??

 

 

 

Let me ask you this though Sainab...

 

Do you mind marrying a man for 1 hour?

Bismillah

 

Salam Alaikum

 

Brother Danger, it is not intellectual discussion that you are doing, but you are only spreading fitna.

 

Tell me please what this Fatwa has to do with our Topic of "When was Muttah Prohibited"?

 

You have all together neglected all the questions that I asked you (like about timing of Muttah, the innovation of Hadhrat Umar regarding Witness etc.). And instead of this you are coming only and only with new accusations while letting all the relative questions non-answered.

 

If you want to discuss on this fatwa, then please open a new thread and I will show you the fatwas of Some Sunni Ulama on this issue. And also I will show you that Sunni Fiqh also allows marrying of non baligh children (and according to Sunnies Hadhrat Umar even molested child Umm Kulthum without Nikah, upon which the child threated to slap him and break his nose).

 

But normally I don't indulge in such type of filthy discussions while such things are fitna and will only create differences among us. And we are here to understand each other and to promote unity among Muslim Ummah.

 

Was Salam.

[Nur]

Zainabia

 

First you have my utmost respect for your cool head, I pray for your guidance, you come across like an honest person, eventhough you admittedly lack knowldege due to your limited knowledge of the Arabic language which is the language in which all of Shia literature (the originals) were written. Ijtihaad is a level for those who master the Arabic as a condition and then master the rest of the Islamic sciences.

 

About the lie you have accused me sister, it is not a schoalrly acusation unless you have done enough research to come to the conclusion that ( Vagina Lending)O principle does not exist, it does at least in Iraq, and Ayatullah Sistani is approved it,( do some Googling) I will list below the sources for this " Lie".

 

Next, you amaze me sometimes, when you post arguments about slave girls and then claim that because it is OK for slave girls, then it is Ok for Shia women, do you suggest that free Shia women are analogous in Fiqh to slave war captive women?

 

 

Below is a past post of mine please read and respond, it may resolve your confusion.

 

 

The Mutah Marriages ( convenience secret no witnesses marriages)

 

They say ( and they Lie) that the prophet SAWS said " whoever makes Muta marriage with a believer woman that he has the reward of visiting the Kaaba (makkah) 70 times. ???? I have never heard a stronger case for having ones cake and eating it too!!!!!

 

 

It was reported by Al Saduuq that he said " That Mutah is my faith and the faith of my forefathers, so whoever applies (enjoyes it), he is in our religion, and who considers it wrong is a kaafir" Source, the book, He who Does Not Have An Access To A Faqeeh, volume 3 page 366.

Note I like the title of this book, it is like one of those " Do It Yourself : manuals. This Hadeeth makes all Sunnah Kuffaar if it is accepted by Shia.

 

The least times one can experience Mutah to be rewarded?

 

Al Kaafi in the Foruus says at least one session will do to get the reward. Source Furuuc Al Kafi volume 5 page 460.

 

Age limit for women to have Muta with?

 

It was reported by Al Tusi that it was asked Abi Abdulah SAWS " young girls, is it OK for a man to have Mutah with? He Said YES, unless she is a girl that can be tricked, they said " What is the age of a girl that cannot be tricked,, He said, ten years old" source Al Tahdeeb, by Al Toosi, Volume 7 page 255 and Furuuc Al Kaafi by Kuleiny volume 5 page 463.

 

Can a man have Mutah with a woman from Alal Beit?

 

The scholars say NO. Sources Al Furuuc Al Kaafi by Kuleiny, volume 3 page 43, and Al wasaael volume 14 page 449.

 

 

The Limit of how many woman one can have for Mutcah , shia scholars differ, but it is around 100 women max if one has the stamina.!!!!!! It looks I am making this up? it is all available in their books for verification, be my guest.

 

 

Mut'cah marriage with minors without penetration is OK by late Imam Khomeini, Shia source available upon request!( Posted Original by Nomad Danger above in Arabic )

 

If you think any of the above readings is not true, please show me , I will recant if proven, otherwise, I will assume it is an accepted Shia religion. Specially if you do not subsribe to the above scholars of the Shia let me know, so we can get closer even furher.

 

 

Nur

[Nomen nescio]

If you want to discuss on this fatwa, then please open a new thread and I will show you the fatwas of Some Sunni Ulama on this issue. And also I will show you that Sunni Fiqh also allows marrying of non baligh children (and according to Sunnies Hadhrat Umar even molested child Umm Kulthum without Nikah, upon which the child threated to slap him and break his nose).

I was reading Fiqah since i was 6 years old and frankly i never heared of a Sunni scholar who even remotly advocated such grave sin.... so I would be very interested to see you qoute those Sunni Ulama you are talking about...

 

الله يهدينا ويهديكي للصراط المستقيم......

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

salaam, guys,

partially going through what you guys wrote her i decised to give my opinion,

i think the orignal topic was

'when was muta prohibited?

according to he history the mutah was halaal in early days, in fact untill the battle of khaybar, alot of sunis diagree when was the prohibitions and where?the only well-autheicated wheich agree upon is that the mutah was lawfull when prophet pass away. and it was also lawful when abu bakar was the khalifa, it was then prohibited by omar. not only did he prohibite mutah of marriage but alos mutah of hajj.

al,ost all the sahabas was n with omar on this issue.

now if you guys think it is awfull to pratice this marriage it is becuase you have not done it, and becuase it culturally shame to be you doing it, had the somali culture allowed the young man and women to practice this marriage you would have find it easy to do, afterall it is kind of nikah,it shares nikah all the charactrestic and conditions except that it's expiry date is known.

[Salafi_Online]

The Limit of how many woman one can have for Mutcah , shia scholars differ, but it is around 100 women max if one has the stamina.!!!!!!

they're like porn stars

 

the only well-autheicated wheich agree upon is that the mutah was lawfull when prophet pass away. and it was also lawful when abu bakar was the khalifa, it was then prohibited by omar.

i could swear our noble brother; NUr, gave a clear explanation concering this misconception ! the least you guys could do is refute his points instead of this same old rhetoric ! Umar did it , Umar did it!

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

orignally posted by salafi-online:

i could swear our noble brother; NUr, gave a clear explanation concering this misconception ! the least you guys could do is refute his points instead of this same old rhetoric ! Umar did it , Umar did it!

brother salafi( are you really salaf?)

what i have said is correct to the best of my knowledge, that umar (RA) said in a puplic that he will punish for two mutahs nammely muta of marriage and mutah of hajj. if you just look any basic hadith book, like: bullgh maran by ibnu hajar alcasqlani,cumdatul axkan and so on, you will fine the story fuly covered and explained by the authors may God the almight reward them.

on the other hand i think we are not disagreeing that it was once a lawfull and islamically praticeable, what the islamic scholard do disagree ,however,is was it after that prohibited of or it is still lawfull ?, depend whom you follow there are two main opions in muslim scholars:

1- shiat they allow it

2- sunis prohibite it but disagree by who and when was it prohibited?

you take alook of the different opions and take the one you think is closer to safe side sali. becuase i believe you are sali and you can only take what prophet,s sunah not the sunah of others.

by the way we all respect the sahabs from top to bottom but we can't in any way say they were muqdasiin, or cuduul. they could make a mistake and of course they did make a mistake a very big one that untill now muslim are suffered it wounds.

May God Guide us all the right way the way of prophet muhamed (p.b.u.h) and his family.

[Salafi_Online]

^^^ As Salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa baarakatu

 

Please point out to me where the difference of opinions lies!

 

Sahih Muslim: the Book of marriage, No. 3265

 

This hadeeth comes under the following chapter:

TEMPORARY MARRIAGE AND ITS PROHIBITION FOR ALL TIMES TO COME

 

Muhammad b. 'Ali narrated on the authority of his father 'Ali that Allaah's Prophet (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the contracting of temporary marriage and eating of the flesh of the domestic asses.

 

 

No. 3266

'Ali (Allaah be pleased with him) heard that Ibn Abbas (Allaah be pleased with them) gave some relaxation in connection with the contracting of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn 'Abbas, for Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the doing of it-And eating of the flesh of domestic asses.

 

No. 3262

Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father: Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage and said: Behold, it is forbidden from this very day of yours to the Day of Resurrection, and he who has given something (as a dower) should not take it back .

 

 

ALL SOUND AND SAHIH HADITH!

[zainabia]

Loaning of Veginas

===================

 

Brother Nur,

 

Let me address the problem of Iraatul Furuj in detail while many Sunni brothers have been decieved by this Anti Shia Alim.

 

Here is exact quote from Anti Shia Site about Mutah and Iratul Furuj.

 

Shia filth

 

I'arat al-Furuj Loaning of Vaginas) - The Shi'ah books of fiqh carry a separate chapter entitled "I’arat al-Furuj" This could literally be translated as "The Loaning of Vaginas." Under this heading the Shi'ah imams have discussed the various conditions under which a woman can be temporarily given to another person. The books give details as to how a woman can be loaned only for the pleasure of seeing her naked body or for the pleasure of enjoying her lasses or for the pleasure of having sexual intercourse with her.

1) Note: This Chapter is not dealing with Mutah as above mentioned Scholar let the people to believem but this whole chapter is talking about Slave Women. So this Iratul Furuj has nothing to do with Mutah.

 

And as far as Sunni Fiqh is concerned about Iraatul Furuj of Slave women, then rulings are the same. (I will come to this latter in details. Insha-Allah)

 

 

People need to understand that Furuj can mean "sexual organ" but it also can mean "Chastity" and "Respect". If this Nasibi is going to suggest that we are lying and that this is an exclusive filthy term, then could he explain why Allah (swt) use the word Furuj when referring to Hadhrath Maryam? Allah (swt) says clearly in Surah al Anbiya verse 92:

 

"She protected her Furuj"

 

If Furuj is indeed always synonymous in Arabic as a vulgar term then why does Allah (swt) use it when praising such a pure / chaste woman?

Furuj:

 

This is the disease of Literalism and found in those people, who have filth in thier minds (like this Anti Shia Alim). And these people are not misguiding Normal Sunnies to by doing propaganda.

 

I question if "Vigena" and "Chastity" are 2 different things (when reffered to women?)

 

 

For example what does it mean if one says: "She lost her chastity"

 

Need I to explain what it means? Both Chastity and Vegina are reffering to the same thing/action, but Chastity is a "Formal" way of describing this action/thing.

 

This title of this chapter (which is given by Shia Ulama (i.e. not by Aima (as))is "Aratul Furuj". The minds of Wahabies with filth in them compell them to go to "vegina", while spiritual meaning of this is how one Slave woman can be given in contact with a man by her Master, keeping her chastity and modesty.

 

Note: "Furuj" doesn't mean "Vegina", but the exact translation is "Private Parts". (i.e. private parts of women and as well as men).

 

So the Anti Shia translation of "Loaning of Vigena" is only filth of thier mind.

 

 

Aysha using the term "Furuj" openly in front of Men

 

Allah (swt) says that Hiya is a very good thing but in matter of Deen one have to talk about things openly in order to make things clear.

 

That'S why this word "Furuj" has been used extensively by Hadhrat Aisha in her Ahadith which she narrated to Men.

 

See Sahih al Bukhari Volume 1, Book 5, Number 286

 

Shooting stars appeared from the "Furuj" of Imam Shaafi's mother

 

 

We are quoting this reference from the following three esteemed works of Ahl'ul Sunnah.

 

 

1) Tareekh Baghdad Volume 2 page 59 Dhikr Muhammad bin Shaafi

 

2) Seerath al Halabeeya Volume 1 page 92 Dhikr Muhammad 'ur Rasulullah

 

3) Isma al Rijjal - Dhikr Imam Shaafi page 41

 

"When our Imam Shaafi's mother was carrying him (in pregnancy) she saw a dream in which shooting stars were coming out of her Furuj, one fell in Egypt and then light encompassed all other cities. An interpreter of dreams told her and said 'Lady Khaleeda you shall give birth to a son whose knowledge shall reach Egypt in the first instance and then travel to all cities".

 

 

Moreover, this Anti Shia Scholar wrote:

 

 

The books give details as to how a woman can be loaned only for the pleasure of seeing her naked body or for the pleasure of enjoying her lasses or for the pleasure of having sexual intercourse with her.

This Alim must look into their own fiqh/hadith books and they will find these same rulings in them too for the slave girl i.e.

 

1) According to thier Fiqh one can sell his slave girl even after having sexual pleasure with her.

 

 

Sahih Muslim

 

Book 008, Number 3371:

 

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq

and took captive some excellent Arab women;

and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives,

(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them

(by selling them). So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

 

This hadith can be found many folds in Sahah Satta.

 

These people must open their eyes and think about the status of slave woman in their fiqh before claiming Mutta to be Zina.

 

 

So according to Nasibi Scholar, one may have sex with a slave girl and then sell her to new master. i.e.

 

1) Neither this slave girl has the permission to stop her master to do Sex with her

 

2) Nor she has the right to stop her master to sell her to next master who can also have sexual pleasure with her.

 

And still these people issue this Fatwa is that it's better than Mutta, in which only after the will of woman, one can marry her.

 

The people whose hearts don't have seals can judge the situation themselves and can decide the who is mad here.

 

Was Salam.

[zainabia]

Originally posted by Danger.:

quote: If you want to discuss on this fatwa, then please open a new thread and I will show you the fatwas of Some Sunni Ulama on this issue. And also I will show you that Sunni Fiqh also allows marrying of non baligh children (and according to Sunnies Hadhrat Umar even molested child Umm Kulthum without Nikah, upon which the child threated to slap him and break his nose).

I was reading Fiqah since i was 6 years old and frankly i never heared of a Sunni scholar who even remotly advocated such grave sin.... so I would be very interested to see you qoute those Sunni Ulama you are talking about...

 

الله يهدينا ويهديكي للصراط المستقيم......

Bismillah

 

Salam Alaikum

 

Brother Dangerous and brother Nur, following Ahle Sunnah Fatwas are for your clarification:

 

 

http://www.ansarweb.net/special/whb_jns.htm

35- مس الصغيرة أو الرضيعة و نكاحها و الزنا بها !

 

( وهذا Ùيما إذا كانت ÙÙŠ حد الشهوة Ùإن كانت صغيرة لا يشتهى مثلها Ùلا بأس بالنظر إليها « ومن مسها » لأنه ليس لبدنها حكم العورة ولا ÙÙŠ النظر والمس معنى خو٠الÙتنة. )

 

( المبسوط ØŒ للإمام السرخسي / المجلد الخامس / ج10 / ص155 / كتاب الاستحسان Ø· دار المعرÙØ© 1406هـ )

 

 

( ولكن عرضية الوجود بكون العين منتÙعاً بها تكÙÙŠ لانعقاد العقد ØŒ كما لو تزوج رضيعة صح النكاح )

 

( المبسوط ØŒ للإمام السرخسي / المجلد الثامن / ج 15 / ص109 / كتاب الإجارات / Ø· دار المعرÙØ© - بيروت - 1406 هـ )

 

 

( Ùأما الصغيرة التي لا يوطأ مثلها Ùظاهر كلام الخرقي تحريم قبلتها ومباشرتها لشهوة قبل استبرائها وهو ظاهر كلام أحمد ÙˆÙÙŠ أكثر الروايات عنه قال تستبرأ وإن كانت ÙÙŠ المهد وروي عنه أنه قال إن كانت صغيرة بأي شيء تستبرأ إذا كانت رضيعة وقال ÙÙŠ رواية أخرى تستبرأ بحيضة إذا كانت ممن تحيض وإلا بثلاثة أشهر إن كانت ممن توطأ وتحبل Ùظاهر هذا أنه لا يجب استبراؤها ولا تحرم مباشرتها. )

 

( المغني لابن قدامة / ج9 / ص159 / ط دار الكتاب العربي )

 

 

( (قال) وإن زنى بصبية لا يجامع مثلها ÙØ£Ùضاها Ùلا حد عليه، لأن وجوب حد الزنا يعتمد كمال الÙعل وكمال الÙعل لا يتحقق بدون كمال المحل Ùقد تبين أن المحل لم يكن محلاً لهذا الÙعل حين Ø£Ùضاها )

 

( المبسوط للإمام السرخسي / ج9 / ص 75 )

 

 

( Ùتوى رقم : 23672

 

عنوان الÙتوى : حدود الاستمتاع بالزوجة الصغيرة

 

تاريخ الÙتوى : 06 شعبان 1423

 

الســؤال : أهلي زوجوني من الصغر صغيرة وقد حذروني من الاقتراب منها ماهو حكم الشرع بالنسبة لي مع زوجتي هذه وما هي حدود قضائي للشهوة منها وشكرا لكم؟

 

الÙتــوى : الحمد لله والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله وعلى آله وصحبه أما بعد:

 

Ùإذا كانت هذه الÙتاة لا تحتمل الوطء لصغرها، Ùلا يجوز وطؤها لأنه بذلك يضرها، وقد قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم " لا ضرر ولا ضرار " رواه أحمد وصححه الألباني.

 

وله أن يباشرها، ويضمها ويقبلها، وينزل بين Ùخذيها، ويجتنب الدبر لأن الوطء Ùيه حرام، ÙˆÙاعله ملعون.

 

ولمزيد الÙائدة تراجع الÙتوى رقم 13190 والÙتوى رقم 3907

 

والله أعلم.

 

المÙتـــي : مركز الÙتوى بإشرا٠د.عبدالله الÙقيه )

( راجع الرابط:

http://islamweb.net/pls/iweb/Fatwa.SearchF...23672&thelang=A

(

 

( (والثاني ) لا حد عليه وهو قول الحسن قال أبو بكر وبهذا أقول لان الوطئ ÙÙŠ الميتة كلا وطئ لانه عضو مستهلك ولانها لا يشتهى مثلها وتعاÙها النÙس Ùلا حاجة إلى شرع الزجرعنها والحد انما وجب زجرا واما الصغيرة Ùان كانت ممن يمكن وطؤها Ùوطؤها زنا يوجب الحد لانها كالكبيرة ÙÙŠ ذلك وإن كانت ممن لا يصلح للوطئ ÙÙيها وجهان كالميتة ØŒ قال القاضي لاحد على من وطئ صغيرة لم تبلغ تسعا لانها لا يشتهى مثلها Ùاشبه مالو أدخل اصبعه ÙÙŠ Ùرجها وكذلك لو استدخلت امرأة ذكر صبي لم يبلغ عشرا لاحد عليها )

 

( المغني - عبدالله بن قدامه / ج 10 / ص 152 / ط دار الكتاب العربي )

 

أقول : رداً على غيرتهم المزيÙØ© على الصغار Ùˆ استهزائهم المستمر بÙتوى الإمام الخميني (قدس) Ùليخرس المبطلون.

[zainabia]

And following Ahle Sunnah Fatwas are from book "Fatawa Qazi Khan", according to Fiqh of Imam Abu Hanifa:

 

(1) IF A PERSON HAVE A SEX WITH AN ANIMAL or WITH A DEAD BODY(human).....??? or HE HAND PRACTISED...IF DURING THIS HE DOS,NT DISCHARGE THEN HIS FAST IS STILL VALID...............................

ref......fatawa QAZI KHAN ......chap------soom---page98/1 by abo haneefa

 

(2)IF A PERSON HAVE A SEX WITH UNDER AGE GIRL(under 9) & during this practise she got IFZAA(TO BECME UNABLE FOR SEX PRACTISE FOR EVER) even then there is no any HADD(punishment) for him........

ref......fatawa QAZI KHAN........chap-----al-haddod----page821/4 by abo haneefa

 

(3)IF A PERSON HAVE A SEX WITH AN ANIMAL & DID NOT DISCHARGE THEN THERE IS NO ANY NEED FOR HIM TO TAKE A WAJIB BATH(ghosal)........(hammmm it very easy )

ref......meezan-ul-kobra.......chap------al-ghosal----page130

 

(Translated from Urdu).

 

Qazi Mazhar Ullah is a very famous personality in Indian Sub-Continent, and all religeous schools of Ahle Sunnah in Indian Sub-Continent uses his works. And his masters used to say him "Bayhiqqi of our Time".

 

Was Salam.

[OG_Girl]

Zainabia, thanks for educating people about Shia here sis. However, I have to say make your post short, as many of your good points will be easily be lost in these long posts.

Secondly,Mut'ah is not an issue that really concerns me, how many people practise Mutah in this day and age?I myself wont practise it. No Shia girlfriends of mine practise it , won’t do it either in the future. I say you have posted enough on this subject and let them accept it or reject.

 

We know most Sunnis scholars believe that it was Omar who declared it Haraam, who has no authority in religion. But have you wondered why he did this? Don’t you think he did for the benefit of women and children (children born out of this relationship who are denied by their fathers)?

 

He stopped it cause during his time, there was no any known medical tests (e.g. DNA) in order to verify whether any child conceived in this marriage if the father denies it was his. The problem arises because, Mutah marriages are conducted in secret and hence no witnesses are available to confirm what each side was saying. So as more and more men denied children they conceived and Omar having no way of determining who was telling the truth, the only option left to him in order to protect the poor women was to ban the practise. There were many men at the time who abused the system. Hence, Omar had to protect the weak in this case being the women and children.

 

Islam champions for the stability of our domestic social order, and Mutah in away is against this sprit—since children born out of this union wont have the stability of family consisting of a father and a mother.

 

As Shi’as, we should learn to accept good things that have come from others whom we disagree with, for instance Omar in this case. I will illustrate this point with an example from the Prophet (PBUH).

 

When the Prophet (PBUH) came to Madinah, he found the Jews of Madinah used to fast on Ashura day. When the Prophet (PBUH) asked them the reason of their fasting on this day, they said, “This is a blessed day. On this day Allah saved the Children of Israel from their enemy (in Egypt) and so Prophet Musa fasted on this day giving thanks to Allah.†The Prophet (PBUH) said, “We are closer to Musa than you are.†He fasted on that day and commanded Muslims to fast on this day. (Al-Bukhari, Hadith 1865) Thus as Shi’as we should take any good that comes from people with disagree with as the Prophet (PBUH) seems to have done here.

 

I conclude by saying, there is more to Shia than just Mutah.

 

PS: I just don't understand what marying young girls and having sex with them to do with Mut'ah? (talking about Arabic post of yours).. Sister you said earlier you don't understand Arabic and here you really making a big mess...I would advice you to just delete it.

 

Please accept my appology if I hurt your feeling sister... I did not mean bad .

 

Salam

[zainabia]

Bismillah

 

Salam Alaikum

 

May Allah bless you sister OG, and my heart is happy to see that I will be benefitted with your company here.

 

Upon your good advice, I have deleted 3 of my earlier non-important posts. Hope now people can find the important things. Insha-Allah.

 

====================

 

And I don't know Arabic, but this same discussion took place at www.shiachat.com , where one Shia brother Hizbullah has given this Arabic Text (without Translation).

And he challanged all non shias and non of them was able to answer him.

 

 

Please see it for yourself at:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27254&st=50#

 

And you will understand how I was able to present it without knowing Arabic.

 

=============================

 

And sister, Regarding DNA tests and Fathership, I already thought upon it long and long and has come to following conclusion.

 

1) The problem of DNA Test and Fathership cannot be problem, as woman has to observe Iddah after Muttah (i.e 2 menturation circles, and it is same as of Slave Women).

 

2) And if Hadhrat Umar was sincere about rights of women, then why he didn't prohibit intercourse with Slave Women?

You see master has right to have intercourse with his slave woman, and then sell him further (as Sahaba Karam used to do).

 

3) And with respect Sister OG, I also want to state the following:

 

- I believe that raising the Status of Muslim Women by Prohibiting Muttah or Islamic Right of Man to have 4 permanent wives, will not serve.

 

- I stronly believe in that what Mawla Ali (as) has said i.e. had Umar not forbidden Muttah, then no one among Ummah had committed Zina, except the wretched ones.

 

- I strongly believe that we are facing a looooot of social problems now-a-days, but we are not paying attention to them. e.g.

 

1) In Pakistan average age for man to marry is 30+

 

2) Pakistan is an Islamic country, but half of our cenimas shows Porno films openly.

 

3) And people are protesting that our youngsters are doing nothing in Internet Caffees except watching porno sites. (Please also see ARD Channel Report on Pakistani Internet Caffees)

 

4) There are thousands of Video Film shops in Pakistan, and all of them have a porno Section.

 

5) A report says that 95% or above yongsters in Pakistan masterbate.

 

Now I question, who are these men? They are either our sons, or brothers or fathers. So can I let my sons or brothers indulge in these immoral sins like masterbation and seeing porno films and whistling behind every girl?

 

=============================

 

Let me give you few more examples:

 

In Iran, Shia women are against Muttah (i.e. it's same as Sunni Women in Pakistan are against Islamic Right of 4 wives.

 

But due to this prostitution rose so high in Iran that now these same women organisations are convincing people for Mutah.

 

(In Islamic Pakistan, we also have open red light areas and thousands of people visiting them each night)

 

==========================

 

Also look it from this angle that Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Masood was away for Jihad for some days and was unable to control over himself and feared to indulge in sin )of comitting Zina or masterbation).

 

That is why he asked Rasool Allah (saw) permission to castrate himself. But Rasool Allah (saw) asked him to do Muttah.

 

===========================

 

And also remember that Sahaba were unable to control over themselves for 30 Days of Ramadhan and visited their wives from back doors.

 

Now consider things about our youth who go for 4-5 years to study abroad.

 

Should we believe that our youth show more Iman than than Sahaba and become angels for these 4-5 years?

 

Here I end my discussion with what Mawla Ali (as) said about Muttah (as quoted above).

 

Was Salam.

 

(PS: Insha-Allah, I would also talk about Women, and their needs and rights)

[OG_Girl]

Baraka Allah feekysister Zainabia , Insha Allah we learn from each other and sure I will keep your company here as I don't read for a lot of people in this section..you are one of people I really enjoy her posts.

 

Sister , I understood your point, I don't know about where you live but We don't do Mut'ah and no one I know do it... why I need to do such things ? I understand these old women in their 40s have no kids or their kids are old and left them jst want to do mut'ah even thought I wouldn't imagine my mom or any of my relatives do such things even after 100 years.

 

Let me back about our brothers, sons, fathers ..ets who do Muta'a cos they can't control them selves!!! ... I would say ONE thing:

 

These men should learn something called self control. They can't keep it in their pants, so an entire religion caters to them? Pathetic.

Have you ever heard of willpower, sis?decide to do ornot to do some thing, and you do or not do it. It's that simple. Really, it is. Why do you need religion to prove your behaviors cause simply you couldn't control your lust?!

 

If you really really need it do it but don't make excuses for these men and women just cause we have a lot of porn movies or postitutions ...is not result of banning Muta'a but is lack of religion and self control!. By the way there is survay saying most who go for Haramm sex are not young boys or none married but these who already married and have kids!

 

See problem is not muta'ah or not but is our self .

 

I am waitting your posts inshallah about women and their needs.

 

To be honest as I told you this topic is not my kind and disgusting me cause we don't need to make all this fuss about Muta'ah while Muslim ummah facing a lot of problems.

 

Salam

[OG_Girl]

Salam Sister zainabia.. Now Alhamdullilah I am full so I can continue my comments about your post .

 

2) And if Hadhrat Umar was sincere about rights of women, then why he didn't prohibit intercourse with Slave Women?

You see master has right to have intercourse with his slave woman, and then sell him further (as Sahaba Karam used to do).

Zainba, I believe sis you are mixing issues here. The Quraan dealt with slavery and hence Islam discouraged it and gave slaves rights. The Quraan couldn’t just suddenly say stop. Look at how drinking alcohol is dealt with. First it was said don’t drink while performing prayers and then don’t drink at all. Even then, the Quraan didn’t say what the punishment should be for those who drink it and the Prophet (PBUH) didn’t say it either. Again, Omar dealt with this issue by issuing punishment for those who drink with the advice of Ali—as he was facing this problem during his reign.

 

In order to understand the Arabs of that time and their mentality we have to read the history Arabs before Islam sis. Before Islam Arabs used to marry their fathers wives, two sisters at the same time and so on. However, the Quraan deals with all of these.Is all to do with what was before Islam and culture and what ecceptable in that time and age. Islam couldn't once just stop it.

 

Also Sis, slavery is a complex issue and the Quraan dealt with it in a logic step-by-step method. In order to discourage slavery, Quraan encouraged people to free their slaves (for instance, when one can’t fast, he is either told to give money to the poor or free a slave). Furthermore, Islam gave slaves many rights, which they didn’t have before Islam. Therefore, when it comes to slaves there was nothing Omar could have done which Islam has not dealt with.

 

On the question of Muta, the Quraan didn’t deal with it, Omar was facing this problem, and he dealt with it, the best way he knew.

 

Sis excuse me for saying this, but I think you are making women sexual objects here so that men can piss on them in order not to commit adultery!!!.

 

I don't understand why people are so bussy on these things rather than understanding the problems Muslims are facing today in the world!!!

 

Salam

[Nomen nescio]

What's more crediable source for information on Sunnah Fiqah than a seething shici fundamentalist website!!!... ====> http://www.ansarweb.net/special/whb_jns.htm

 

Sunt al rasool SAWS has never allowed such grave practicies and whats reffered in that piece is absolutely not Sunnah...