Would we the Muslims be happier in an Islamic State?

[Khalaf]

DP

[Aaliyyah]

I don't mind obeying the law. However, there has to be a limit. The law shouldn't tell us how to live our personal lives. As how we should dress, whether we can listen to music, whether we can watch movies, or what type of tv programs we r állowed to watch. I honestly think we should live our lives the way we see fit when it comes to personal matters. I think the solution is having islamic state that governs us by the shari'a, but that doesn't mean they should force individuals to act in certain way. you cant force anyone, that actually comes against all the principles of Islam.

 

wa salaamu alaikum

[Viking]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^Kashafow, I agree with you on that adeer.

I would go even further and say, in my opinion, participation in the system of governance in the west is no (at least it should not be) longer a matter of theological debate---it passed way beyond that stage. Today it’s considered the only practical course for those Muslims who called the West home.

xiin,

I remember reading a fatwa by Shaykh ibn Taymiyah saying that it is permissible (or was it obligatory) for Muslims to take part in a non-Muslim government in order to improve the lives of other Muslims living under that system. You'll see people taking a Qutbist stand against western systems; but they do not leave the land and in the end, we become large in numbers but with almost no representation. Laws unfavourable to Muslims are passed, innocent Muslims are harassed by authorities on the streets, in their homes and even at airports. Nothing can be done about it because we don't have a voice, representatives in politics and mass media.

[Khalaf]

^^^How do Muslims go about being involved in politics in these secular governments, with their secular laws is the million dollar question? How does a Muslim work in the same system as you’ve said that abuses other Muslims or for that matter human beings? That bombs other Muslim Nations or any nations? That advocates for homosexuality, riba, and other vices? Would the Prophet scw or the Companions ra be involved in the System of the Querish and work under those laws? Or the Laws of the Romans ect? I believe the Sheikh ibn Taymiyah Allahu ya Raxma stressed the importance of Amar bil Ma'ruf wa Nahy an al-Munkar in politics, society, ect. Therefore this voice or representatives will they represent the principles of Islam or principles of democratic party, republic party, labor party, or other political parties that exist? Unless the Muslim is distinct and upon the principle of tawhiid, the road of Shariah in representing the Muslims in these host countries, I don’t see how they will not compromise their deen. And this is the case thus far, those Muslims involved in politics or accepted by these parties are the "moderates" "secular muslims". But Allah Knows Best.

 

 

Originally posted by AAliyah416:

I

don't mind obeying the law. However, there has to be a limit. The law shouldn't tell us how to live our personal lives. As how we should dress, whether we can listen to music, whether we can watch movies, or what type of tv programs we r állowed to watch.

I honestly think

we should live our lives the way we see fit when it comes to personal matters.

I think

the solution is having islamic state that governs us by the shari'a, but that doesn't mean they should force individuals to act in certain way. you cant force anyone, that actually comes against all the principles of Islam.

 

wa salaamu alaikum

Many I thinks, and I believes here gacalkay. But walaaleey what does the deen say about the subject is what matters.

And Allah Knows best.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Muslims are already involved in these secular systems you speak of. They live in it, work for it, complain about it, vote for it...

 

It's all about limiting harmful policies that get hatched in those congresional venues, Khalaf, and not about avoiding it.

 

 

Welcome yaa Viking…it’s been long since you visited us.

 

I think you are right in that there’s a noticeable discrepancy in those in the west who took Qudbi’s approach to the letter ---you cant preach Dar-ul Xarbi and all, and yet migrate and live in the midst of the people whom you drawn theologically unsurpassable borders against it...

[Khalaf]

^^^^The Qutbi approach has been creating Dar-al-Islam within Dar-al-harb. Are you saying that is not feasible therefore negate the duty of creating dar-al-islam? Why don’t you take a crack at that one adeer.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Khalaf:

What do you think? What do you envision when you think about an islamic state? Do the Muslims (ie you) prefer living in the states, Europe, ect? What would happen to ipods, tvs, music, movies all the things we enjoy? Your thoughts people.

a) I don't think that the majority of contemporary muslims would be happy in an Islamic state because many confusing an Islamic State with the idea of economic prosperity and socialism.

 

The Shariah is there to uphold and make the word of ALLAH Supreme. It is there to perserve the muslim and grant them certain islamic rights.

 

b) Muslims do prefer living in the west because it allows them to become 'complaicent', comfortable and feed the individual ego.

 

Living in societies wherein God becomes secondary in our lives and the Individual takes first place can be really fun. No one can force you to pray, fast or pay Zakat. Your kids don't have to know how to pay, grow beards or wear the hijab. You can just about Finance a home, a car, a child (if you can't conceive one) etc... and its all thanks to the interest-based financing system.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Khalaf:

^^^^The Qutbi approach has been creating Dar-al-Islam within Dar-al-harb. Are you saying that is not feasible therefore negate the duty of creating dar-al-islam? Why don’t you take a crack at that one adeer.

I think what I (and xiin I suppose) mean is that this particular approach makes Muslims living in the west passive. Some think that since it's not Muslim territory they should not be engaged in political affairs, yet they still continue living in these lands. To make a difference, one has to take part.

[rudy-Diiriye]

we have been to the promise land, we seen the peace and the barwaaqo under it... have u seen whats replace it?

 

even hell is better than we were are now. i say lets go back there.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Viking:

quote:Originally posted by Khalaf:

^^^^The Qutbi approach has been creating Dar-al-Islam within Dar-al-harb. Are you saying that is not feasible therefore negate the duty of creating dar-al-islam? Why don’t you take a crack at that one adeer.

I think what I (and xiin I suppose) mean is that this particular approach makes Muslims living in the west passive. Some think that since it's not Muslim territory they should not be engaged in political affairs, yet they still continue living in these lands. To make a difference, one has to take part.

Participating in politics does not give a muslim community Izza/Honor. For the later comes from following the deen and adhering to its principles. It there is no unity of the hearts btwn the common muslim or even the local Ulama then too persue politics would be fruitless. You don't go out and campaign without a united front.

To do would be an absurdity!