Reality Check Posted March 25, 2006 Pi, I almost laughed. I guess you dont know the full definition of hijab..it's cool because many people believe it is a piece of material you cover your hair with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blessed Posted March 25, 2006 ^True! Hijaab is both internal and external. Whilst most people focus more on the external, you seem to be rejecting it. Allah didn't command us to be modest only our thoughts and action. He also commands us to cover our cawrah ( be modest in our dress). You can't have one without the other. It's like remembering him without preforming the salaah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reality Check Posted March 25, 2006 I have a reason for not wearing it and unfortunately, its neither of the reasons Ismahan has condensed for us. You can call it rejection if you like..but I don't cover my hair..does that make me any less muslim? Lemme answer that for you: Only ALLAH (saw) knows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pi Posted March 25, 2006 You almost laughed? Well, I tried...lol. Look, I agree with you Hijab is more than a material that covers the head. Umm, pants are more than a material that cover your lower body too. But here's the thing, Devil's Advocate: when it comes to Hijab the material is a necessary (but not sufficient) part of the Hijab. Likewise, pants (or anything that covers the lower body) are a necessary (but not sufficient ) part of modesty (or even sanity). What you seem to be saying is that intention is all that is needed. I think intention, just like the material, is necessary but insufficent in itself. If intentions were all that is needed, I can throw away all my pants, and walk around butt-naked, and then claim that my intention of modesty (or my claim of sanity) is there. Ermmm, it just appears to be absent. Two elements must be found if the Hijab concept is to make any sense : intention and material. Either one by itself is a joke, really. Same for the pants. Please think before you respond. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blessed Posted March 25, 2006 DA I didn’t opinionate on your faith, so I don’t know where that came from. That’s not the topic here. As far as am concerned, I wear the hijab because Allah commands me to. By not wearing it (as was the case when Ismahan posted this thread) made me a disobedient Muslim in this context. I’ve read and believed the surah where the command of hijab is made but something held me back. The hijab is a part of huge parcel of tenets and actions that make up a Muslim /believer, not wearing doesn't take away your other good deeds or make you a lesser Muslim because you might have qualities that you lack as a hijaabi. That's not the point here and yes, people shouldn't be dismissive of non-hijaabi sisters or taunt them. However, it is and will always be a sin not to wear it, it is disobedience to Allah the Almighty. The Quran is very clear about the hijaab, it's consists of an attitude, intention, not looking at forbidden things and most importantly covering up. Allah has dedicated to ayats to it and there a several hadiths explainning it and it's agreed upon by all Muslim sects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reality Check Posted March 26, 2006 Blessed, I wasnt under the impression that you were attacking my faith, but rather I was making a statement that because I dont cover my hair, that it may/may not make me any less of a muslim because only Allah can give that final verdict. I agree that "The Quran is very clear about the hijaab, it's consists of an attitude, intention, not looking at forbidden things and most importantly covering up" PI, you're missing the modesty of the inner self (as Blessed mentioned in the above post, and different from intention of wearing hijab on your head), and without that, it's really a joke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted March 26, 2006 DA Because you dont wear the hijab, although you fully understand its importance in Islam, and becasue Ismahan's reasons do not apply in your case, and because you are not any less of a Muslima for not wearing the Hijab, because only Allah can judge your case, since the inner self is very important and is in Allah's domain of knowledge, then it follows that you must have a inner self reason that exempts you from this outwardly Hijab requirement with such confidence. Is that the case sister? Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reality Check Posted March 26, 2006 Nur, No that is not the reason. Try again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted March 26, 2006 RC OK, Let us address the premise that although you do not wear Hijab, you are not necessarily a Muslima of a lesser faith, How about first gauging your level of Islam by checking with the following conditions of the first pillar of Islam ( La Ilaaha Illa Allah ) that can either make or break you: 1. Understanding of iits meaning 2. Solid belief in it ( No Room for doubt) 3. Unconditional accpetance of all requirements it calls for by word of mouth or heart ( Including Hijab) 4. Material fulfillment and physical surrender to its commandments ( Including Hijab) 5. Matching actions with Beliefs 6. Sincerity 7. Love of this word, and all of the principles it stands for ( Hijab again) 9. Rejection of all principles that contradict with it ( Not Wearing Hijaab without a valid excuse such as old age). Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reality Check Posted March 26, 2006 Originally posted by Nur: RC OK, Let us address the premise that although you do not wear Hijab, Let's not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Modesty Posted March 27, 2006 I think some women put hijab before other obligatory things in Islam. For most people seeing a sister who is wearing the hijab leads them to conclude that she is wadaad even if she doesn't pray. I also believe when you wear the hijab you should also pray and have Islamic manners but not because your parents say so. There are many women with ugly manners who wear the hijab, and it leads many people who are searching for their faith to have a bad impression. Secondly, I noticed in Somalia, society forces women to wear the big jilbab, you can't even wear khimar in some parts of Somalia. I think by forcing people to wear a garment they don't even truly understand, you make them want to run away from it. Many of the girls I talked to in Somalia told me if they lived in the west they would never wear jilbab or cover their hair because they were forced to wear it since the day they learned to walk. The men here in Somalia on the other hand wear the latest designer clothing, some even wear shorts here. The women can't even wear a simple skirt with khimar. Personally, I don't think men oppress women, I think women here oppress themselves. I wear hijab and no one ever forced me to put it on, not my mom, not even my dad. As I grew older and learned about Islam, I put it on myself.I don't have a problem with girls who don't wear hijab because it's their choice and they could have more ibadah than girls who do wear hijab.I hate how Somali society ( I mean here in Somalia)judges women by how big her hijab is, must the girl wear five layers of clothing that she can't even move in, and she is probably hot as hell under all those layers ( I am hot in my scarf in all this hot Somalia weather) while the guy is wearing shorts over there enjoying the breeze. sigh! I think all this heat is getting to me, I should get some caano geel to cool off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted March 27, 2006 Modesty sis Very constructive analyses, the truth of the matter is that there are women out there, who dont wear the Hijab at all, but who are some of the deepest in faith than any Hijabi you've met. Recently, I had a chance to work on a project with such a Muslima woman. This woman, a very educated, experienced and practical would come across at first as a person that all of us would write off as a weak Muslima in faith because of her outwardly appearance, appearances do mislead at times, and it just happened in my case, the more I worked with her on the project, the more I became convinced that she could well be better than me in conviction and practice ( I learned she was active in Dawa to Non Muslim Women and prayed Qiyamulleil ) , however, when I asked her why she was not wearing her Hijab, she replied that she was not yet fully convinced with the interpretation, I asked her if she would wear the Hijab if I convinced her, without hesitation, she said, she would. She taught me a lesson that, not all Hijabis are good in faith, and also, that not all non Hijabis are necessarily bad in faith. The problem is therefore transferred to us all, those who understand the importance of MODSETY, specially Hijabi sisters to reach out to good Musilm sisters who for reason of not have the right information may not be observing the Hijab. Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted March 27, 2006 One good reason for NOT wearing hijab would be : Hijab is everything but modest, Hijab does not only cover your body it covers your thoughts about yourself too, not to mention the unwanted attention it draws to you due to it´s strange looks. Modesty is marked by simplicity, Hijab ( the tent type -just diffrenciating types)is everything but simple, and you´re not a piece of meat to be covered but a free intelligent human beeing . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted March 27, 2006 Johnny Welcome JB, I could not have agreed more with you when you write: One good reason for NOT wearing hijab would be: Hijab is everything but modest: Answer: According to Dictionary: its opposite, IMMODESTY is defined as offending against sexual mores in conduct or appearance. From your perspective, I fully agree that its IMMODEST, since sexual mores you subscribe to are different than the mores these women subscribe to, anyone who checks out your interests can readily see that you are interested in CHICKS, and some more CHICKS, its precisely these types of men that were the reason the Hijab was ordained for Muslim women, Allah SWT says : ...So that he in whose heart is an ailment (morality) does not (sexually) harass you" You see JB, Our Sexual mores in Islam are clearly different than yours, and I am sure that you would respect other peoples mores as much as yours should be respected, ours are laid down by Allah thru revelation, Quraan and Sunnah. And these two sources are what we believers follow. and its our choice. A woman who adheres to the mores of Islamic Modesty wears a Hijab, different women interpret it differently, but all of them agree that the more they cover, the more modest, not IMMODEST as you claim, your refuting of all Modesty is an erroneous statement at best. Knowing you as a good debator, this statment was not in your class in terms of objectivity, and fairness. You write: Hijab does not only cover your body it covers your thoughts about yourself too, not to mention the unwanted attention it draws to you due to it´s strange looks. Answer:. How could that be JB? a little explanation would be kind, by tossing off her Hijab, a Muslim woman can open her mind to many possibilities including being chased by men like you who consider them like CHICKS, sexual objects for passing pleasure, I can feel what is going on through your head saaxib, but arent the non Hijabis meeting your desires? besides, with such blatant degradation for women as to refer to them as CHICKS, isnt it you instead who is not using your head for thinking? which I fully agree to fall in within your rights as long as you dont seek Hijabis for your passing pleasures. You write: Modesty is marked by simplicity, Hijab ( the tent type -just diffrenciating types)is everything but simple, and you´re not a piece of meat to be covered but a free intelligent human beeing Answer: What could be more simpler than a cheap piece of rough material that costs less than the dry cleaning tap of fashionable CHICKS short skirt you admire so much? Quite contrary than your claim, the Hijab forces men like you to use their heads instead of getting distracted looking at all places except her intelligence. Now, where is the meat more appealing? on a Hijabi or on a non Hijabi? to test my statement, go have a strange look at a non Hijabi, and notice how annoying your looks feel to her. Once a woman puts on her Hijab, her mind is open, along with her heart, she can only be appreciated by men who have respect for women, whose interest in a woman is her intelligence instead of her heavy makeup. Modesty is the quality of conforming to morality, if you dont have any, its your right, if you do subscribe to a different set of morals, then for those women who have Islamic morals, its chillingly offensive to say the least that they are wearing a tent, dont you have respect for their choice? I have seen you defend others choices with which I've agreed with, why display such an uncallled for inuslt on Muslim women's choice of moral code? Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ElPunto Posted March 27, 2006 Originally posted by Johnny: One good reason for NOT wearing hijab would be : Hijab is everything but modest, Hijab does not only cover your body it covers your thoughts about yourself too, not to mention the unwanted attention it draws to you due to it´s strange looks. Modesty is marked by simplicity, Hijab ( the tent type -just diffrenciating types)is everything but simple, and you´re not a piece of meat to be covered but a free intelligent human beeing . It covers your thoughts? Simply because you say it does? What a moronic statment. It draws attention to you due to its strange looks? So the looks of other people determine your clothing. And when they look - what do they see -someone who is modestly dressed. The looks only signify people's ignorance, nosiness and lack of awareness about others. So you wear a 'tent' - you are an UN-intelligent piece of meat and if you don't wear a 'tent' - you are intelligent UN-piece of meat. What you wear determines the person you are according to this idiotic logic. How utterly liberal and tolerant! Sweden is just churning them out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites