Can A Woman Become A Head Of An Islamic State?

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Salafi da'wa:

Good XIn

 

saxib I dont understand your contention, do you have a problem with the hadith or with ahlul dikr's explanation?

^^I am contending the notion that women are less intelligent than men. Simple.

 

I accept the hadith the way it is. If some scholars (Ibnu baaz included) explained it in that light, however, it does not mean it is so. Don’t get me wrong saaxiib for I applaud the ijtihaad of those scholars to reason as to what the rationale of barring women from the highest position of leadership is. But it just remains ijtihaad, and no more.

 

Midda kale, you have to understand that I am beyond blind taqliid at this stage of my life, and although learned scholars are all dear to me, the truth, as Ibnu Qayyim once wrote, is dearer than them to me. Marka ha igu xuuxin ahlu thkri said this.

 

But if you, or Sulayman for that matter, feel that women are not as intelligent as men why don’t you open another thread and bring something to show for it. And while you are at it remember the issue is not, good friends, whether there are distinctive, and some times not so distinctive, roles that’s suitable for each gender as we agree on that one. The issue you seem to have chosen, yaa salafi, is whether those roles are based on deficiency of intelligence of one particular gender.

 

Aniga doodaydu waa simple adeer: xaddithkani waa saxiix. Xukunkiisuna waa dhab. Ilaahay iy rasuulkiisa saa ku taliyey.

 

Haddaadse la shirtimaado xadiisku waa sax laakiin dumarka waxaa xukunka loogu diiday caqli yaraan baa haysa. Taasi ima marto.

 

PS: i ma liking how this thread is progressing..

[Viking]

Nur,

If we take the hadith in a literal sense, how come the countries that exclude women in contributing to the economy do much worse (economically) than those who include them? What is the "success" [the Prophet spoke of] based on? Is it in this world or the hereafter? We know from history that certain circumstances have made women leave their traditional roles and joined i.e. battles, factories etc. in order to help a nation survive. This was the case when the Muslims waged wars and used women as nurses and even swelled up numbers in order to intimidate the enemies. And in Europe during the world wars, the results would have been different if women hadn't been working 24 hours a day in bullet factories etc.

 

We also have to remember that the Arabs are patriachial people which perhaps has contributed to the intepretaion of this hadith. If you look at a country like Malaysia, women are highly educated and contribute largely to the family and economy. The same applies to Shi'a Iran which has women in the Majlis, their vice-president is a woman and about 62% of university students are females. These countries are Muslim countries that are highly advanced nations in terms of technology. Saudi Arabia, which is more of a monarchy than a theocracy excludes women from driving cars, flying aeroplanes, local politics etc.

 

When the Taliban [who are students of the Saudi] came to power, they barred all women from all public duties; teachers, doctors, lawyers and other professions were removed from their posts and forced to stay at home. Females were also excluded from any type of formal education. I know that this is an extreme example, but interpreting this hadith literally as many currently see it is bound to lead to such extremism. Don't we need knowledgable female family doctors, obstetricians, oncologists, midwives, gynaecologists, teachers etc?

 

A country like Saudi Arabia is of one extreme (where it totally excludes women) and the west is of another extreme where it demands that women prioritise education and careers and literally compete with men which often leads to abandonning the building of a family life. This has led the west to a certain amount of monetary prosperity but the negative aspects of this trend is going to haunt them in the future. Since women have opted to have a career and motherhood is put on ice so to speak, many have abstainned from it altogether which has left them with a great need of manpower in the coming decades. There is a huge need for taxpayers because people who have from the 80's chose not to build a family and instead concentrate on careers will be dependant on the atcive generation, a generation they never brought forth.

 

Islam is about moderation and we should not take either extreme, but a middle path. It might not be allowed for a woman to be the head of an Islamic state [with duties and responsibilties laid down by Allah SWT upon the leader] but that doesn't mean that they should be shut out altogether from the workforce and force them to stay at home.

 

Should a company be led by a woman or will the men who work for her be rendered uselsess? Should a woman be able to own a farm and be able to hire male workers without them being frowned upon because they have a female boss? is this hadith only applicable to "head of state" or should it be applied in all walks of life? The hadith is as it is [because it has been accepted by our scholars of the past who scrutised the Prophet's traditions] but how we interpret it makes the difference.

[-Serenity-]

Khayr, I’m more than happy to ‘come out’ and show that I utilize my brain and accept that which appeals to my commonsense. And I don’t need to parrot the words of men who make zero sense.

 

Now, unless you can prove me wrong and show there is a correlation between gender and intellect/reasoning, without resorting to this ‘sheikh reasoned so’… don’t bother addressing me, I’ve low tolerance for sexism mangled with bull.

 

Why do you as a women need to aspire to be a member of parliament or any women for that matter?

Do you specialize in silly questions? Only you can ask such a dim-witted Q with a straight face Khayr, and for that, I will attempt to answer it concisely (Altho I trust Naden will do a better job and has more patience for obtuse questions).

 

Quite simply and basically – because it affects them. Their lives - their everyday lives. Women, as much as men, are part of society and have a say (or should where they don’t) in how its run.

[Salafi_Online]

Salam

 

XIn, you write

 

"I am contending the notion that women are less intelligent than men. Simple.

"

 

Brother, our beloved prophet who loved nothing in this dunyah except women and perfume said, "women are deficient in intellect and in deen" he(salalahu alayhi wa salam) goes on to explain as to the reason to their deficiencies. You leave the hadith as it is, on what basis? if your above taqleed, and you excell in islamic fiq and sharxul hadith, then i suggest you play your cards. are your contention based on evidence or is it because it offendes your whims? What evidence you have to suggest that WOMEN are not deficient in deen and in intellect other then the usual" i think.."

 

Need i remind you of the hadith hadith of our noble shaykh and imam, Mohammad(salalahu alayhi wa salam) when he said many MEN have reached the level of perfection but only three women have reached such level, Asiya, Mariam and Aisha.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Very good. You’re still clinging to it.

 

Who is not weak in deen and deficient in intelligence, yaa salafi? Are we not all devoid of knowledge? What are the characteristics of man (insaan)? How does the noble Qur’an approach this subject saaxiib? And if women are so intelligently weak, why the beloved prophet sought her advice in the time of crisis? Do you remember what happened in that famous hudaybiyah? Tell me, my good brother, who’s lost in this gloom of selective quotes and half-baked interpretations of the sunnatu al Mustafa?

 

Ponder a bit on those questions, yaa saaxibii? Need you not camouflage with the jewels of our beloved prophet whose wisdom you seem to have missed!

[Naden]

Originally posted by Khayr:

The hubris is fed over and over...and over again.......Why? It is because that would require Submission to something that is impertial to our Hubris/nafuus.

 

Waterlilly and Naden

Why do you as a women need to aspire to be a member of parliament or anywomen for that matter?

Are women incomplete until they were pants? :rolleyes: [/QB]

Commitment to hubris, good Khayr, is an equal opportunity offence.

 

In the presence of a functioning islamic state and the need for a singular head, I am accepting of keeping that position for men. But what would that mean for muslim men and women? Nothing much, I'm afraid. I believe that such a position will be propped up and supported by interests of the elites of society and business. I do, however, see no logical reason to exclude a competent, experienced woman from a decision-making position. In general and despite my limited knowledge, my take on politics is this:

 

1. Politics, in general, is the playground for idle minds and people/groups so power hungry and motivated by self-promotion. In many corners of the world, it attracts people of porous morality; people who have been so indoctrinated and prepared for these symbolic positions that gender (or education or social background or faith) mean little.

 

2. Most men AND women are excluded from decision-making processes in muslim societies (and many others - just look at voter malaise in North America). Political democracy is a ruse in most places with a few people controlling our collective interests. There are hopeful signs that it works every once in a while; I am especially happy to see the work of unions, advocacy groups and cooperatives. In the case of some muslim societies in the West and muslim world, men sometimes feel emasculated by poverty and the sense that they have little control over the affairs of their families and societies. We should all be sensitive to this and understand that the health of our communities depends on the full participation of men and women.

 

This discussion has gone as low as it possibly could and has unearthed some unpalatable, frankly laughable thoughts about the intelligence of women. What a shame.

[- Femme -]

Need i remind you of the hadith hadith of our noble shaykh and imam, Mohammad(salalahu alayhi wa salam) when he said many MEN have reached the level of perfection but only three women have reached such level, Asiya, Mariam and Aisha.

What a weak arguement. Listen to urself. Goodness. Maybe because women didn't have the opporunity to follow the prophet around and be his close companions? Huh? Has the thought occured to you? Nothing to do with deficiency in intelligence or reasoning, but all to do with the fact that the Prophet didn't mix with women as he did with men. Simple as that. Don't make things up.

 

And if I am deficient in deen because I'm a woman, why would anyone woman be punished for not adhering to it? Answer that for me.

[Cumar]

As-salaam Alaikuum

 

I remain accused for citing the statements of the imaams regarding that hadeeth. Some even charge me for inventing some half-baked opinions on this hadeeth whilst they simultaneously offer their oponions on the interpretations of the hadeeth.

 

The apologetic attitude that some here possess which stems from the western mindset is quite appalling.

 

Allaah has created man and women for separate roles and gave some superior positions than others. For instance, our Prophet has been made the best of creation; does that indicate that all the other Prophets are inferior? Abu Bakr was the most superior companion; does that mean that the rest of the sahabas are inferior? The Qur'aan is the most superior of all the revealed Scriptures; does that indicate that the Injeel, the Tauwrat and the rest of the Scriptures do not carry any importance? Makkah is the mother of all cities; does that mean that the rest of the cities are not worthy to be mentioned? Jibreel has been made superior than all the other angels. These are simple illustrations to demonstrate that Allaah has favoured some over others.

 

People keep forgetting that Islaam is a Deen of equity. Allaah created everyone different. Men and women are assigned different roles. In some cases, women are superior to men whilst in other cases men are superior to women but it has been agreed and is mentioned in the Qur'aan that men as a class are superior in the sense that Allaah bestowed them strength and the roles of guardianship. For example, Dr. Rovareen wrote in Encyclopaedia:

 

“The power of a muscle of a woman is one third weaker than that of a man. The heart of a woman is small and weak compared to the man's heart. Every woman's heart is 60 grams smaller than an average man's heart. Besides this, the grasping power of a man is more than that of a woman.â€

 

Allaah views his servants as equal, whether they are man or woman. Women are equal as a human being and as a partner in life and that's why the Prophet said:

 

"Women are the second half of men."

 

Just because Allaah did not grant women the quality of strength in no way indicates that they are automatically inferior and thus degraded. In the Qur'aan, men have responsibility over women, spend on behalf of women, protect them and satisfy their needs in general. Men are required to wage Jihaad whilst the women are exempted it due their physical abilities. Men, according to their nature are more rational and use their intellectual powers more than women since women are more influenced with emotion and I am talking about generalities here. However and this is attested by the 'ulemaa that at the individual level, there are women who are superior than men in certain areas that men in general excel women. That's according to their fitra.

 

In fact there are certain tasks where women are superior to men. Each gender excels in his own field and each play vital roles to complement each other.

 

 

And insha’Allaah Muslims should accept that instead of playing the apologetic role that all women and men are equal in all aspects. Instead of complaining why you have not been granted a certain quality, one should count the Favours of Allaah and be responsible for what you are granted, for surely, you will be asked on the Day of Recompense.

 

This is evident in the hadeeth that Imaam Ahmad recorded in his Musnad.

 

Umm Salamah said, "O Messenger of Allaah! Men go to battle, but we do not go to battle, and we earn one-half of the inheritance (that men get).

 

Allaah sent down the aayah:

 

And wish not for the things in which Allaah has made some of you to excel others For men there is reward for what they have earned, (and likewise) for women there is reward for what they have earned, and ask Allah of His Bounty Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knower of everything (an-Nisaa:32)

 

And Imaam Ibn Katheer said:

 

Therefore, the aayah states: "Do not wish for what other people were endowed with over you, for this is a decision that will come to pass, and wishing does not change its decree. However, ask Me of My favor and I will grant it to you, for I Am Most Generous and Most Giving."

 

 

Brother Viking wrote:

. These countries are Muslim countries that are highly advanced nations in terms of technology. Saudi Arabia, which is more of a monarchy than a theocracy excludes women from driving cars, flying aeroplanes, local politics etc.

I do not nescessiarly agree with that. The ruling on barring women from driving is based on the fatwaa of Imaam bin Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him). It's a itjihaad from him and has no ruling on the rest of the Muslim Ummah. However, I agree with his fatwa wholeheartedly. Some have the misconception that it's an agenda to degrade women but on the contrary. The ruling was passed for the safety of the Muslim women there.

 

I will quote the [news] article explaining the wisdom behind the ruling:

 

JEDDAH, 6 June 2005 — Sheikh Abdullah ibn Munee, a member of the Council of Senior Ulema which is the Kingdom’s highest religious body, said the council had not discussed the issue of women driving in its past sessions.

 

“The issue was never brought up in any of our sessions,†Sheikh Ibn Munee said in an exclusive statement to Arab News. The scholar stated that those who have announced either through the Internet or in leaflets that women driving is religiously forbidden — haram — were not telling the truth.

 

“We never said it was haram for women to drive,†said Ibn Munee. He clarified that some members of the committee had, however, expressed their own personal views. “We do not say it is haram but we say that it is for the good of our daughters not to drive.â€

 

Sheikh Ibn Munee did say that Saudi society was not yet ready for women to drive. Al-Madinah newspaper, however, stated that the council may discuss the issue officially at one of their sessions in two months.

 

Sheikh Alfowzan, another member of the Council of Senior Ulema, stated in a reply to the Shoura Council member, Mohammed Al-Zulfa, that the financial cost of bringing foreign drivers was much less than a loss of honor. The sheikh was referring to the possibility that women driving could lead to immorality and a loss of honor.

 

A number of female voices have raised questions reflecting their confusion about the situation. Khowla Al-Khaldi, a teacher from Jeddah, said, “If the Ulema Council were not going to discuss the issue, and the vice-chairman of the Shoura Council said that the matter was for the Ulema and the Minister of Interior, Prince Naif, said that the matter is social rather than religious, then to whom shall we look for answers?â€

 

Manal Tashkandi said that she had been searching for years for someone to rule on the issue. “I am not keen on driving but for God’s sake, when will this hassle end?†said Tashkandi who has a British driving license.

 

A few women expressed satisfaction about women not being allowed to drive.

 

Nahla Al-Swailih, a banker in Riyadh, said that she was not interested in driving in the Kingdom although she has an international driving license. “I can never imagine myself driving in these streets which are filled with lunatics driving madly,†said Al-Swalih.

 

Muna Bukhari said that she agreed with Ibn Munee’s comment about society. “Unfortunately, our young men need to be taught proper behavior and respect before we women can be allowed to drive,†said Bukhari. She added that one could sense what problems women drivers would face by simply being aware of the harassment they are subjected to in malls.

 

Saad Al-Matrafi, Arab News

 

Asalaam Alaikuum

[Viking]

Suleyman,

How issues are dealt with in Saudi Arabia does carry a lot of weight. Most Muslims worldwide have been receiving financial aid and also indoctrination (religious views) from Saudi Arabia and therefore their views trickle down to Muslims all over the world. It is also home to Makka and Medina, the centre of Islam.

 

The issue of driving is chauvanism however you look at it. This is not only peculiar to Arabs. If you go rural areas of Africa, you will see that the women are in the fields with hoes digging the soil, but the men are the ONLY ones sitting on tractors. You will hardly see a woman driving a tractor in rural Africa and this comes down to one thing, power!

 

My point is that taking this hadith literally poses a great danger as it will lead to women being excluded from every sphere of life and opressing them. Men are superior to women only in terms of physical strength, when it comes to spiritual accountability, everyone stands by his-/herself in front of Allah SWT on The Day of Reckonning. If women literally were inferior in terms of Deen then we would be held responsible if they went astray, as they are not as capable as we men are isn't it? But you will see that the Qur'an cosntantly says "O believing men and women" and the Prophet told us that "Knowledge was obligatory for every Muslim", not man but Muslim! Why would then this hadith be used to hold women back from work? What is the point of knowledge if you cannot apply it practically or spread it to others?

 

The Qur'an and Hadith are also clear that superiority over someone else is only achieved through knowledge, piety and consciousness of Allah SWT. Not heart-muscle but knowledge and piety.

[Cumar]

Suleyman,

How issues are dealt with in Saudi Arabia does carry a lot of weight. Most Muslims worldwide have been receiving financial aid and also indoctrination (religious views) from Saudi Arabia and therefore their views trickle down to Muslims all over the world. It is also home to Makka and Medina, the centre of Islam.

As-salaam Alaikuum

 

Firstly, The 'ulema in Saudi Arabia have clarified that they did not prohibit women from driving, rather they advised, further, it is not based on the Glorious Qur'aan and the Sunnah but rather on the present condition in Saudi Arabia. I have never heard the Saudi 'ulema issue a fatwaa that driving is haram.

 

Secondly, we look at the interpretations of the hadeeth from the salaf and the Imaams who followed them exactly in faith. We stop where they stopped and do not try to interpret any of the legislation according to our whims and desires.

 

Frankly, if we take the hadeeth literal, then it does not possess a great danger as the hadeeth is clarified by the Prophet himself. What posses a great danger is if the hadeeth is taken out of context.

 

As for the spiritual accountability, then you have re-endorsed what I previously mentioned brother. Let me re-quote myself:

 

Allaah views his servants as equal, whether they are man or woman. Women are equal as a human being and as a partner in life

 

The women are not inferior in terms of Deen, this is not what I have stated nor is what the Imaams have stated. Rather, the Prophet explained that their defiency is 'cause of her menses and she leaves off prayers and fasting.

 

When some women asked the Prophet:

 

"O Messenger of Allah, what is this deficiency in our intelligence and religion?" He replied: "Isn't it that a woman's testimony as a witness is half of the testimony of man?" They said: "Yes." He said: "This, then, is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that when she is in her menses, she leaves off prayers and fasting?" They said: "Yes." He said: "This is the deficiency in her religion."

 

In other words, she is neither sinful nor blameworthy because she has to miss some of the prayers and fasts, in fact by obeying that command (i.e. leave prayer and fast during mensens), she obeys Allaah and receives blessings and ergo, there is no case of 'inferiority'. It is simply their nature.

 

When the Prophet attested to the perfect character of the four best women of mankind, he did not refer to their menustration and asserted that they did not go through menstruation, rather he was refering to their strength of intellect, their good character, and soundness of opinion.

 

I also would like to mention some points that you have raised. This hadeeth in no way is used to hold women back from work, in fact, this hadeeth does not even mention or indirectly references work. Further, Allaah says that the best of you is the one who has the most taqwa. Just because women were created with a specific nature and a specific role it does not mean that she cannot excel over and above a man in terms of her obedience to Allaah and her drawing nearer to Allaah, nor does it mean that she cannot be more beloved to Allaah than many men.

 

As for leadership, then it has been established that no woman can assume leadership.

 

Imaam al-Muwaffaq Ibn Qudaamah said:

 

For this reason the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his successors (Caliphs) and those who came after them never appointed a woman to be a judge or a governor of a province, as far as we know. If it were permissible, it should have happened."

 

Instead of finding a loophole in the hadeeth, why don't we just 'hear and obey'.

 

As-salaam Alaikuum

 

As-salaam Alaikuum

[xiinfaniin]

Sulayman, it is quite disappointing that you have not understood my objections to your ‘half-baked interpretations’ (yes it is a half-baked when one resolves to selectively quote the chosen prophet’s tradition without giving a proper regard to the objectives of his message) of the Sunnah. What most people objecting to is your assertion (and bro salafis) that women are less intelligent than men, and, hence that is the reason for barring them from holding the highest position of any Islamic state. Now I see you confusing yourself and spinning to all directions. No one is denying the intent of the lawgiver to have different roles for his servants. That’s not my contention walaal. So don’t waste your breath on some thing that most people agree on.

 

Viking, yours is very competent and well-prepared write up, and I agree most of what you wrote. I think you and naden have very valid points. Scholars have differed in how high a muslimah can rise in her public service. It is no longer practical to say muslim women should shun from political participation. It would be a self-imposed injury if this ummah decides to limp on a one leg. The doors of legitimate worldly opportunities are wide open for her. As long she can manage to observe and comply with the divine orders of her maker, I see no religious obstacles getting in the way of her natural progression to better her affairs and that of her community as well. It is doable. One of those divine orders that Allah decreed on his female servants is to shun from seeking to hold the highest seat of leadership of this ummah. That is where good Xiin stops, as I am no equal to the wisdom of Allah and His intents. I simply comply and concede that power to Him. Any position other than is a fair game for all and can be open for discussion, I hold.

 

As far Saudi Arabia and its debased monarchy, in my opinion, it represents what is wrong with this ummah. Not only because it denies women the right to drive but also, and more importantly, it operates on a system that challenges the innate rights of man; the right to choose who can represent them to serve Allah’s purpose in this life. The Saudi masses and its scholars are to blame for the decadence they suffer. Masses because, I have to yet see a meaningful objection from what is Saudi Arabia’s large population, and I think (could be naiveté) that they could effectively end this regime with the help of Allah had they demonstrated practical steps and showed spiritual power. Scholars because this corrupt monarchy enjoys considerable support from them. It is them who blessed them and sing its praises. It is them who for too long withheld that overdue fatwa which should’ve detailed all reasons and religious justifications to resist its methods and hold it accountable to the public treasures it robbed and the wrong policies it implemented.

 

But because Saudi Arabia does a poor job of representing Muslim image (or Taliban as you mentioned) we should not minimize the significance and the practical benefits of our core values. The concept of mahram for our women, for instance, should not be retired simply because Saudi Arabia abused it. Like wise the concept of gender roles and its significance should not be lost on us because some corrupt regime pushed its envelope when enforcing it. Even when addressing workplace and other sectors of education and health, we should think Islamicly and must incorporate our values as well. As long those guidelines are considered, I think the argument for gender segregation would be reduced to a mere shout.

 

PS. Sorry, I could not edit it.

[Khalaf]

“I often thank Allah that I learned Diinta way before I started interacting with Muslims.â€

 

Great words of wisdom.

 

I am seeing from some of the comments the challenges facing the woman in the Muslim Lands. A thread about if woman can be head of Islamic country (Khalifah I thought) turn into questioning the capability of women, her intellect and her involvement (vital I should mention) in public society.

 

 

As Muslims we need to take a hard look at ourselves and our societies in regards to the treatment of women. Islam has given the woman freedom, but this is theory unless concretely applied and in the end means nothing. I agree with brother Viking, our deen is moderation not extremism. Lets not pass our cultural attitudes as Islam.

 

Where does this discussion end? forget about women leading a nation(I don’t see the big deal since in current circumstances why the best candidate shouldn’t get the vote), but the question should be what is the role of women in Muslim society, this is a bigger and more important question which we seem to discussing here.

 

These interpretations of Hadith, Qu’ran has made our sisters take a backseat in society, and our societies are failing as result. Forget the state, even in organizations such as MSA, masjid boards we hardly see women presidents or active policy makers. This is indeed present across the board, and perhaps originates from this type of thinking demonstrated by some here.

 

 

 

To believe that half of the population constituency should have no role in decision making/politics, and have no say in laws that effect them is indeed ignorant of the way of Muhammad pbuh and no less racist then the southern whites who excluded blacks from participation in politics. How is this good for society that women shouldn’t be in parliament, or participate in politics? We are talking about head of state, not a complete shut out of half the population and leaving them in the dark on policies that directly affect their affairs. And their input and perspectives would add great value to the betterment of society since they are part of the society and are affected by that society.

 

 

As the ayat says: "And [as for] the believers, both men and women - they are friends and protectors of one another: they [all] enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong." (Quran 9:71).

 

 

Both men and women are active in the community in order to ensure a productive society, both consult one another, this is the way of our glorious history, but not the way of the corrupt middle eastern/African/Asian societies of today who pass their culture as Islam. Peace

[Jacpher]

Islam does not favor men over women and Quran and the Sunnah show that all men are created equal. Because of Allah’s wisdom, each gender has different sets of rights, responsibilities, and religious obligation. Women have strength in some areas and men on other aspects of life and each go through difference stages in life. They don’t even respond the same to diseases and tragedies. These differences do not show or imply of one being less intelligent than the other. Let’s not take the words of the prophet out of context. Such a grave mistake.

 

 

Back to the topic.

 

Originally posted by Amelia:

I think we need to clarify what we are debating here... because I see a clear distinction, for example, between presidency and the position of Amir al-Muminin in an Islamic state. As you're all probably aware, being able to lead a congregation in prayer is not in the job description of the president of Somalia, Egypt, Tunisia, etc etc etc... most of the Muslim countries. Infact, I often notice them standing behind an Imam on the rare occasions they are seeing praying! So I see no connection between leading prayers and being a president or a prime ministers or for that matter, being involved in policy making, which is a line of work that I would never accept should be reserved for men (sorry.. but no1 is barring me from driving or telling me how to dress...certainly not a bunch guys who it doesn’t impact)

I was under the impression that a Head of Islamic State would mean someone that holds a prestigious title of Ulil Amr, Imam of Muslim State, Islamic leader with the recognition of being Ulil Amr. Can a modern-day president or ministers be Ulul Amr? That may be a topic of its own but it’s relevant to the discussion. I beg for your forgiveness, as I didn’t read all the replies. Someone might have brought up these points but I interjected the question of women leading prayers to spark a discussion and possibly examine the discussion from another angle. Can calipha woman be able to lead congregational prayers in public or address and appear in public to engage decision-making process and 24/7 demanding active role in society? Is Nur asking if women can be calipha? Or a modern-day president or minister? Let’s focus on these questions.

 

What leadership positions is Nur implying in the title?

Is Head of State same as calipha and Ulil Amr leader?

Conditions of becoming a Calipha? Male/Female?

 

Once we tackle these issues, we can ask if women can hold any of those posts. Note Muslims are commanded by Allah to obey the Ulul Amr. Who is Ulil Amr you might ask and what does it mean to be Ulil Amr. Neither Somalia’s president nor Egypt or Tunisia are Ulil Amr or remotely resemble one. Ulul amr are those that administer the society accordingly to the Quran and Sunnah. They are given almost the same authority over us as that of the prophet and disobeying them would mean sinful.

[Salafi_Online]

Xin,

Yaa akhi

 

Intellect is innate. Every person is given the intellect that Allah wills. we vary in intellect just like a speck (at various heights) in the heavens. Action is sought from each person in accordance with the intellect he has been given. Intellect is not acquired; rather it is a blessing from Allah, the Blessed and Most High.

 

Allah does not call to account or punish the insane nor what you do out of forgetfulness nor that which occurs intentionally.

 

It is authentically reported that the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) ssid, “The Pen is raised up from three: from the insane whose mind is deranged, until he is cured; from the sleeping, until he awakes and from the child until he attains puberty.†Reported by Abu Daawood (Eng. trans. 3/1227/no.4388), Ahmad and al-Haakim.

 

I did not insinuate they were accountable for their deficiencies, as shaykh Uthaymeen suggest,â€It is from the perfection of iman†Allah continues to rewards the muslimah for that which stems from her disposition. I do not imagine anyone made assertions it was self-inflicted. Yet the facts remain. Due to their menstruation they are deficient in deen(leaving off salah and siyam) due to their memory they are deficient as witness, while men can carry out their responsibilities without any natural impediments. This however does not translate into every women being deficient in all matters, Al-Mustafa clearly explain where their deficiencies lies. The creation is collectively limited, althought these limitations are not equal. Men are in essence physically stronger then women, yet men are still limited in strength.

 

The topic as it states, is whether a Muslimah can be the head of an Islamic state, to suggest a woman can be the guardian of men conflicts with the message of Islam. They are not barred from the position due to their limit in intellect or deen, except that her position and responsibilities in Islam prevents her from fulfilling the obligations of wiliyahul amr.

 

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wiseâ€2:228

 

 

You insist I am misrepresenting the hadith yet you refuse to provide an alternative explanation. Save me from ignorance saxib, furnish us with the sound explanation.

[Xoogsade]

Originally posted by Salafi da'wa:

Xin,

Yaa akhi

 

You insist I am misrepresenting the hadith yet you refuse to provide an alternative explanation. Save me from ignorance saxib, furnish us with the sound explanation.

If people disagree with your blind taqliid they are ignorants? The likes of you are not even aware what they carry on their backs like "the likeness of a donkey who carries huge burdens of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example....." Al-Jum'ah

 

As muslims, we have the right to disagree and agree with sheekhs no matter who they are. Each one of us is responsible for their own faith and Allah won't ask us/you about Bin Baaz or utheymiin in the day of judgement, so you will best serve these noble sheekhs if you stop using them for your end and stand by your misguided opinions if you can.

 

If women are so intellectually inferior, then Aisha is in the list who is one of the teachers of muslims and will forever remain so. The interpretation you favour surely makes her a candidate as it collcetively places all women in the lower intellectual rank.

 

Wax soo baro.