Can A Woman Become A Head Of An Islamic State?

[xiinfaniin]

I also wish, good Sulayman, that you could address your fellow sisters as respectably as you could without resorting to cheap and phantom scientific research. You've already went off topic when you indulged us all in the lowest level of this discussion one could reside; gender x vs. y.

 

How do you measure intelligence, good brother? As me calling you dude, though I don’t think dude is particularly offensive word, still apologies saaxiib. But the irony is really suffocating in that you are offended by dude, yet adamant about posting shallow and selective quotes of some learned scholars that assert women to be less intelligent than men.

 

Now, all is not lost so lets restore the decency of this discussion or at least allow bro Nur to give its last rites.

[Cumar]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^I also wish you could address your fellow sisters as respectably as you could without resorting to cheap and phantom scientific research. You've already went off topic when you indulged us all in the lowest level of this discussion one could reside; gender x vs. y.

 

How do you measure intelligence, good brother? As me calling you dude, though I don’t think dude is particularly offensive word, still apologies saaxiib. But the irony is really suffocating in that you are offended by

dude

, yet adamant about posting shallow and selective quotes of some learned scholars that assert women to be less intelligent than men.

 

Now, all is not lost so lets restore the decency of this discussion or at least allow bro Nur to give its last rites.

As-salaam Alaikuum

 

I seem to have the impression that I am going circles in spite of the fact that I clarified the issue on the intelligence part by quoting the statements of the scholars.

 

Now instead of acknowledging these statements, you cling to the initial ambiguous statement.

 

In fact, without introducing the commentaries, I flat-out state the hadeeth from the Prophet.

 

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

 

"I have never seen among those who have a deficiency in their intellect and their religion anyone more capable than women of swaying the intellect of the most determined of men."

 

So here, the Prophet states the deficiency in their intellect without elobarating. At the first glance of this statement, you would have concluded that the hadeeth advocates woman-bashing. Rather on the contrary. Without the clarification from the commentaries. The deficiency in their intellect is their reason.

 

Now I am not going to re-iterate an already established point but I do not see the justification to repeat the first few unclarified lines of the Shaykh's statement.

 

In regards to the 'dude' comment. It is not the adaab of the Sharee'ah. What happend to the plain old 'brother' or 'sister' when addressing a believer.

 

Lastly, insha'Allaah in the near future, I will enclose the references for the defiency in reason. This is not 'cheap phantom scientific research' as you have asserted but well referenced and well-conducted research.

 

As-salaam Alaikuum

[Jacpher]

Is Sulayman another Yoonis?? I've a good feeling this would possibly be resolved in page 11 or so.

 

"I have never seen among those who have a deficiency in their intellect and their religion anyone more capable than women of swaying the intellect of the most determined of men."

Is this the end of the hadith or you just posted a part of it?

 

Now that you've posted this, tell use what the Uluma have said about this particular hadith in regards with deficiency in intellect and religion.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Suleyman:

As-salaam Alaikuum

 

I had a slight feeling that some members would object against the statement of Imaam Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him).

 

The hadeeth regarding the shortcomings of women:

 

The Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

"I have seen none having more of a shortcoming in reasoning and religion yet, at the same time, robbing the wisdom of the wisest men than you." They said: “O Messenger of Allah what is the shortcoming in our reasoning?†He said: “Is it not the case that the testimony of two women is equivalent to that of one man.†They said: “O Messenger of Allah what is the shortcoming in our religion." He said: "Is it not the case that when you have your menses you neither pray nor fast?"

(Saheeh al-Bukhaaree and Saheeh Muslim)

 

The Shaykh after explaining this hadeeth added additional points to consider his statement. He said:

"However, this does not mean that they have a shortcoming in understanding in everything or that they have a shortcoming in religion in every matter.

The Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made it clear that

their shortcoming in understanding is with respect to their non-proficiency and in religion with respect to their not praying or fasting during menstruation or post-partum bleeding.

 

This also does not mean that she is less than men in every matter or that men are superior to her in every aspect.

Yes, as a class, men are superior to women in general. This is true for a number of reasons, as Allaah has stated: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend [to support them] from their means." (4:34)

 

However, she may excel him in many matters.

How many women are greater than many men with respect to their intelligence, religion and proficiency.

It has been narrated from the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that women as a species or class are less than men in understanding and religion from the point of view of the matters that the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) himself explained.

 

Asalaam Alaikuum

Xin and Pi,

 

Easy up on the brother. I think that there is a misunderstanding here and the communication channels are not working.

 

Suleyman provided illustrations to his post, lets not all gang up on him now.

[-Serenity-]

Boys, we don’t need a scholar for this kinda question, I, Amelia Papazafiropoulos will answer and tell you that intellectual superiority or inferiority/reasoning is a case-by-case issue. Totally unrelated to sex, age, race, religion... its an individual thing. Honest. No sheikh told me that (infact, I reckon I deduced it from reading one of those istubidh kaafir scientific books) and its absolutely foolproof.

 

Thanks.

[Salafi_Online]

Good XIn

 

saxib I dont understand your contention, do you have a problem with the hadith or with ahlul dikr's explanation?

[Legend of Zu]

SubxaanAllah...this is a paramount example of when people (unknowledgable) explain things they don't know...and even funnier when they hope that their explanations would convince the masses.

 

Now all of you get off from attacking each other!!..yes You heard me - STOP IT!...

 

Now...lets go back to the initial subject and the Hadiith.

 

We established that this hadiith can not be rejected by Attacking the character of the companion of the Prophet (CS) therefore the authenticity of the hadiith is well established.

 

The contention then should be - what are the ramifications of the hadiith in legal terms?

Is it sufficient to draw that conclusion? What is the extent of the ruling? And so on …Ooh damn I’m repeating what Xiin said earlier in the topic. The Irony Eh!

 

Cheers

[Haseena]

Bismillah

 

Wa Calaykum Salam Wa Raxmatullah

 

May Allah increase us all in faith and in practicing of our faith aamiin

 

My brothers and sisters, let us not be among those who fall for shaytans tricks, let us not forget everything in this deen has its explanations, let us not forget Allah send us Muxammad ibn CabdAllah (sallahu alehi wa salam) to perfect good manners as well as guiding mankind, Our Noble prophet was not among those people who spoke on account of their whims rather his words were weighed against a conscience of gold remote from any filth and a radiant pure heart guided by our Lord.

 

What I am trying to say is, let us not jump on each other let’s take the authentic before personal opinion and “westernized†scrutiny, indeed we are talking about our Deen let’s not negotiate on this part. We are Muslims and so should follow our Quran and the authentic sunnah of our prophet ( sallahu alehi wa salam) anything beyond that is trivial.

 

 

Wa Calaykum salam wa Raxmatullah

[-Lily-]

A few years ago I would have been so outraged with such a Hadith, I can see how a lot of women would be annoyed with it. (and that’s an understatement)

 

As long as women can participate in parliament and in the important decision making process like Naden said, it would not matter if they had a role that is a mere symbol of power. The way politics is heading, it will be rare in future to find a leader that has absolute power over his people. Even if he is a leader of a Khalifa state, I’m sure some kind of decision sharing process would be included, keeping in mind that a large majority of Muslim states have royalty as leaders/heads of states.

 

I personally do believe women have more influence than they are aware of and they should strengthen their positions rather than undermining their current roles.

 

Amelia, for men to get a hand from Allah in dealing with women should be a clear sign that surely they wouldn't manage without Him. Imagine if Allah didn't make the role of men/women explicit in the Qur'an, the men would have been overrun in a day.

 

Keep going, this is fascinating.

[Nur]

Waterlilly writes;

 

Imagine if Allah didn't make the role of men/women explicit in the Qur'an, the men would have been overrun in a day.

 

Alhamdulillah, Allah is indeed merciful to all of us in different ways.

 

A question that bothers me on womens particpation in government and all wlaks of life:

 

If Muslim women are given the same rights like Western women:

 

1. How many of them would excercice it? same like current stats in the west? and why?

 

2. When a woman competes with a man in all walks of life, I am suure she will bring an excietemnt to men wherever she goes, she will be like one of the guys, working late, business trips, conventions, nothing special for a gender, so she has to shovel her way and be strong willed, and after that, she has to come home, may be she will prominent but has is not married, like Condi Rice, she woul have to find pleasure just like the guys in politics do, specially when they follow the two hundred mile rule,

in such circumstancs, what is happening at home? is hubby playing cards with next door wifeys? are latch key children hanging around malls unattended? do you think a stay home hubby will be able to replace a woman to care for chldren at home? or are we going to follow the Italian negative growth ( more Italians opting for no marriage, and no kids, just having good times)?

 

A problem is not solved at the level it was created ( Human). Einstein.

 

We need a Devine Solution, " why then are they running away from Allah's Tadhkirah ( Reminders, Solutions) like wild Donkeys ( eg. Zebras) running away from a Lion" Quraan

 

Nur

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Amelia:

Boys

, we don’t need a scholar for this kinda question, I,

Amelia Papazafiropoulos

will answer and tell you that intellectual superiority or inferiority/reasoning is a case-by-case issue. Totally unrelated to sex, age, race, religion... its an individual thing. Honest. No sheikh told me that (infact, I reckon I deduced it from reading one of those istubidh kaafir scientific books) and its absolutely foolproof.

 

Thanks.

Thank you for coming out of the closet and showing us your true colors.

 

The subject of Women and leadership is a very sexy subject that is used to demonize Islam and all other traditional religions. Hence, why people are encouraged to participate in Democratic elections because it precisely appeals to people's xawa/ego i.e. I am important, I must be heard, I am intelligent etc...it all becomes about I...I...I...nafsi, nafsi...ya nafsi...

 

The hubris is fed over and over...and over again...

 

Walahi, its caajeb, people are becoming so self engrossed via their gender, their self. It is to the point that they can't even make Sujuud to Allah anymore. Why? It is because that would require Submission to something that is impertial to our Hubris/nafuus.

 

Waterlilly and Naden

 

Why do you as a women need to aspire to be a member of parliament or anywomen for that matter?

Are women incomplete until they were pants? :rolleyes:

[Arawella]

Women can and have governed states. Gender should not be used as a tool in determining the ability to run any state whether it be an Islamic state or otherwise nor is it mutually exclusive to be a women and a leader of a state.

 

Women have always been underestimated and endured countless oppositions by the opposite sex. To assume that a spouse is likely to be unfaithful, incapable of rearing the children or render his husbandry duties where the wife is on long term work engagement is in the least preposterous!

 

Depending on knowledge, expertise, choice and tenacity any women can juggle effortlessly motherhood with full time employment. As a woman my sole duty in life is not too bear children nor do we deserve as women to be measured by wifely skills. Surely where the wife is on a higher income threshold than the husband it is rational that he should stay at home and look after the children.

 

If men were brought up to value family life, to be responsible fathers and husbands they would not be so quick to shed all home duties to the wife. We are women not imbeciles!

[-Lily-]

Nur, I understand what you are saying but (you knew there was a but coming) there comes a time in even the most domestic type of woman's life when she will have more time on her hands than is necessary for her family. What about divorcees? Unmarried women? Childless women? Middle aged women with grown children? The point is not how many women would do it but to have the option to do it (if Allah agrees with it).

 

Khayr, I fully respect housewives. I know women don't need to behave like men to be of equal status to them. Having said that, there is still a lot more that women can contribute towards the advancement of their fellow humankind. There are some decisions that effect women and the quality of their life, so how can women shape their future without only having to depend on voting (which we all know is scarce in Muslim countries as it is)?

What about midwifes, nurses, teachers, and professors? And these are only the traditionally women friendly jobs.

 

Long hours, late hours, and lack of part time hours are all another way to keep women out of the working world. Many sisters are even choosing careers that will allow them flexebility later on in life should they need it. Technology is evolving, women , especially Muslim women need to take advantage of this.

 

p.s. Khayr, MPs are very women friendly jobs. They have many opportunities to work independetly, long holidays, and only have to be there when parliment is holding session. (At least in this country. )

 

Major derailment from topic. Sorry.

[Resistance]

the never-ending debate ... another example of why we somalis are in this mess ... argument over things we do not yet have in place ... reminds me of that Somali comedy sketch where two men fighting over hypothetical money or something lke that

 

worry about how to establish an Islamic state ..or even a Somali one for that matter, b4 we decide if a wowen can lead it or not

[Salafi_Online]

Salamu alaykum

 

Yes and i think pigs can fly.. and and i was thinking i can fly... my opinions are so cool.. i value my opinions. ANd i think one man can take over the world, oh bush is not fighting islam, and and also i think that, well i was thinking since my opinions are so great, i was thinking i can say whatever i want when it comes to islam, yea that would be great, I dont need islamic scholarship, or even quran and sunnah, why bother im so educated, i have a phd in social science, heck i live in the West.I cant be wrong. look at me!!! wow i love my opinions.