Puntland to abandon the Mbagathi peace conference

[Rokko]

Originally posted by Bari_Nomad:

Gediid,

Substitute Puntland for Somaliland, and Bosaso for Hargeisa and you have what your group has been doing since 1991. Since portraying other Somalis are "blood thirsty" and "savages" was another recognition strategy.

Bari, don't waste your time on Gediid na'mean. He has more than one time shown his utter hate for anyone whose father wan't part of the SNM. Maybe you should ask young chaps like Spadez and Lander to see if you get a better response na'mean.

[BN]

Mobb,

 

Yes, I know. He was responding numerous times to the same post, pathetically regurgitating the same vile hate-speech.

 

 

Rahima,

 

I would like to respond to your comments concerning Guraad, if I may. He, like other PLers, remember the massacres of tens of thousands of family and relatives in Mogadishu, Kismayo, Galkacyo etc., in the early 1990's. Simply because of the tribe they belonged to they were killed, raped, robbed of their property and possessions and forced to escape to Kenya, Ethiopia and Puntland. I personally think it is very understand able for PLers like him, and myself, to have bad memories of their one time home and its warlords.

 

Strangely enough, I would of thought that SLers would be the first to understand these feelings. But they, like others, are blinded by tribalism and scoring points to think rationally.

 

On the other hand Puntland has welcomed all somalis without discrimination; even those from the clan of the USC mass murderers. Nor did we take revenge against them in Galkacyo(when our forces captured it again), or anywhere else. But if you still want believe that we are Anti-South Somalia, than that is your choice.

 

As for his "anti-Somaliland" view,--I'm sure you would feel the same if an alien government was illegally making claims on your lands, amassing troops and threatening your people with war. I hope you can put yourself in his shoes and see things from his(or our) prospective.

 

 

BN

[Rahima]

I would like to respond to your comments concerning Guraad, if I may. He, like other PLers, remember the massacres of tens of thousands of family and relatives in Mogadishu, Kismayo, Galkacyo etc., in the early 1990's. Simply because of the tribe they belonged to they were killed, raped, robbed of their property and possessions and forced to escape to Kenya, Ethiopia and Puntland. I personally think it is very understand able for PLers like him, and myself, to have bad memories of their one time home and its warlords.

Sure enough one can have bad memories but must this display into clear cut hatred (or even dislike if we wish to be so polite) for all those who just so happen by qadr to share a tribe with those who killed his relatives. No one is innocent in the civil war brother so let us not continue to play victims and continuously demonise a particular tribe- none of us here who have not committed any atrocities or given support are responsible for any horrendous crimes committed by those who just happen to share a qabiil with us. It’s about time we just acknowledge what happened and move on. Let’s take me as an example, my family was also targeted (my own father left the country for fear of his life, although for religious reasons) and my tribe at one time or another, do you see me pining over it? No of course not because it is history, all we can do is pray for the dead and pray that history does not repeat itself. If we continue to carry around this cuqdad, it is bound to repeat.

 

On the other hand Puntland has welcomed all somalis without discrimination; even those from the clan of the USC mass murderers.

Are you willing to acknowledge that so has Mogadishu. And please for the love of God don’t try and say no. I know of personally so many of my fathers friends who are from Puntland tribes who have established successful and prospering business in Xamar. They and their family live in peace and are reaping the rewards of what our capital has to offer.

 

Nor did we take revenge against them in Galkacyo(when our forces captured it again), or anywhere else.

Let us get real , we all know Gaalkacyo is always a boiling pot, the four main tribes always seem to take rounds in fighting one another :rolleyes: -therefore they are all continuing to take revenge. Brother, I should know, my family is from Gaalkacyo and no longer do I get surprised when I hear another battle broke out. May Allah guide them-hunger for power is killing them slowly.

[Gabbal]

Perhaps you and Gediid could answer a question for me. What is the difference when another group(AbdiQasim or other warlords) leaves the talks and puts the whole thing on hold for months, and if Puntland leaves the talks? But no one from our camp is accusing them of being "anti-somaliweyn". Why was it that when Muse, AbdiQasim, Cato, Hiraale, etc. were running from Nairobi there was silence from this seemingly vocal group we see here today?

Yaa boos cariiri ah jecel inuu dadka ku tuuro.

 

Sxb bari, If I even gave a single "ih" about the so-called walking out of Abdulahi Yusuf, then ask me that question again.

[Gediid]

Bari

You see saaxiib the difference between you and me is my honest wish to see all Somalis irrespective of region or clan to live in peace and harmony.I understand that this is the only viable way to a more better society where ALL will prosper.I recognize that but you dont.

I do not wish to get into a drawn out battle with you or your gang but rest assured you will not dig up one single post of mine where I have written news that would be considered neagtive from any region Puntland included.I tend to remain optimistic and positive and I have every reason to be because thats when I know I can sleep in peace.

Stay positive and don't let the political rhetoric get to you.

[miles-militis]

Rahima – may I suggest you revisit the second last sentence at the end of the first paragraph of my previous post to suss out the answer to your question? If unproductive, please notify me.

 

Having reflected on the debate vis-a-avis personal finger pointing that has unfortunately taken aground, a historical elucidation which I trust might put things into a simpler perspective at least for some, and to clarify things must be shared.

 

You see, it must be understood that Somali nationalism is about myths, anti-colonials resistance, and concord amongst Somali speaking peoples.

 

Firstly, Somali nationalism is about a myth that pioneers of the nationalist movement in the 40s and 50s had to create at a time when a common denominator bringing together Somalis in the Horn was desperately required, and as such the notion of Somali nationalism had been perfected against grave constraints, bigger of which being clan fidelity. It arguably began in small pockets primarily in major cities on the coasts reaching the Madrasah (the single most assembling grounds where youngsters could easily be influenced instilling the notion of nationalism), and gained its highest momentum with the movement of the late Sayid Mohamed A Hassan and his followers borrowing esteem from the hunger that was strife then for a cohesive, singular voice and force transcending clan allegiance- tribal inter-dependability was then at the thrust of the Somali persona and psyche prior to the nationalist movement. The myth, unfortunately has been subdued at the start of the rushed silencing of the organised rebel movements of the 70s and 80s. Alas, clan instead took the centre stage of Somali political discourse. An alternative mythical might that could take its place as of yet has not been hatched.

 

Secondly, Somali nationalism is about the anti-colonialist resistance movement and refusal to accept colonial legacy, and mêlée against occupation of Somali inhabited territories. The resistance argued to have matured rather swiftly without soaking the nationalistic fibre of the Somali consciousness lost its impetus at the eve of independence as the mythical notion of nationalism had evaporated. With the fascist force out of the equation, domestic rivalry of clan influence usurped the spirit of the once stealth resistance, thereby precipitating the fall of the national institutions along with the mythical sentiment.

 

And finally, Somali nationalism is about striving towards the unity of Somali inhabited territories. With two of the Somali territories under occupation with perceptibly underrepresented and under privileged peoples, one existing as a separate entity barely surviving subsequent to end of the cold war, and the Somali republic that is no longer, new formulae not necessarily in search of recapturing the ancient sentiment, but interpretative of contemporary nationalist feeling ought to be explored.

 

All three unfortunately had been hit hard, some perhaps more than the others.

 

Furthermore, one could observe the mythical Somali sentiment being shunned by sections of the Somali people, yet noticeable, incomprehensibly if you will, is the rationale put forth to justify such linear proclivity. For instance, the mere mention of Sayid Mohamed A Hassan sends sheer infuriation in some corners whilst the successive Somali governments are wrongly identified and associated with clans, thereby abhorred to say the least. Sadly, clans who were at the cornerstone of the Somali government in the 70s and 80s are now criminally branding it as a tribal regime so as to strip themselves of any wrongdoing, and thusly vilifying some for deeds none other than their own.

 

The colonial legacy is embraced and considered the benchmark that must shape the future of Somalia in some corners. Any mention of nationalism or Somali unity is met with emotive and ferocious assault void of logic al rationale.

 

And in some circles, the whole notion is almost wholly abandoned.

 

Lessons learnt yet regrettably yet to be exploited for the good of the nation include:

- That no country or nation could survive by itself on hand-outs, loans or financial guarantees when resources to lien, if need be, are scarce, in return for territorial access as perhaps countries used to do at height of the cold war era,

 

- That no single group can claim ownership of Somali nationalism, rather it is a symbol identifiable with the nations, and by all, warts and all,

 

- That Somali history , warts and all, could not be reinvented albeit it might disfavour a specific group’s political orientations, or preference,

 

- Clan does not constitute a nation, and defiance of the popular belief, political or otherwise could hardly be abdicated however rapaciously re-enveloped,

 

- The raw emotions of the general public could not be impregnated with successive intellectual denigration of no substance,

 

- Rationale rather than emotions should take charge of the political discourse,

 

Here is where intellectuals failed to formulate directive resolve, if not scholastic decree, verbalising prevalent political conditions whilst articulating the discourse.

 

The fact that some in their dismal tribulations seem to be stuck in the 1990s at the height of the Somali civil war when reason had been replaced with madness and everyone was branded as “tribalist” –not even the honourable gentlemen Adam Ade, Abdirazak H Hussein to name a couple were not spared, further debilitates the debate. Here, now we seem to be revisiting that era, this time by none other than the hordes that hit puberty thereafter, with the children of the 90s tagging along. And as unfortunate as that is, generationX, most and not all, wired if not stoned, is by far the least bit acquainted with the Somali history, nor its politics, contemporary or otherwise. More tragically, the application of the term “tribalist” is deemed contrary to popular wisdom the last solace and the decider of the debate. Not realising that the mere branding of one as being “tribalist” is no revelation in view of the fact that the whole nation along with its institutions and national symbols had been annihilated on the basis of “tribal” vengeance. One would have thought, by now the discussion would have moved along, and around “what now” in realisation of the cultural mix and the basis of the Somali problem, rather than “finger pointing” after a decade or so. How wretchedly and appalling!

 

"So what" is all one has to offer in response to such drivel. Yet the accuser, only if smart enough, will have learnt that what might have appeared the winning formulae, and a revelation at the start, is longer, and is not new to the accused.

 

However, as the legendary Rumpole would have it after lengthy defence rounds at the old Bailey - be as it might, take the dialogue wherever one might, but realise that nationalism is not something one orders from the catalogue, or the nearest high street department store, and as such questioning one’s nationalism is nothing short of infantile and by far the most ridiculous utterance one could possibly make.

[LANDER]

Originally posted by Samurai Warrior:

Lander – A while back if not mistaken I recall suggesting that you might want to consider staying on the sideline for a while until .....? Or did that miss you by a mile? [/QB]

Mr. Intellect what are you talking about?

Your allusion to non-existent or maybe abstract events goes far beyond my comprehension. You might have to break it down to plain english since I am not blessed with such forethought as yourself. Four dots prior to posing a question are not self-explanatory for the ignorant folk.