Why Mr I.M.Lewis advocates for the dismemberment of Somalia

[Alpha-Geeljire]

SL leaders are pathetic because, instead of

empowering liberators

(i.e. members of the SNM),

:confused: Walal if SL leaders are pathetic because they didn't empower the "Liberators," then that means that the Somali leaders aren't pathetic because they empowered "A" liberator (a member of the SSDF, role model of the SNM), so I don't get your dislike of the outcomes of Mbagathi, and of him.

 

 

You have managed to even confuse yourself.

[wind.talker]

^^

 

You're using one statement to explain different things. To understand what I say, you gotta look at things from a contextual standpoint.

 

First of all, Col Yeey is not a liberator - he's an agitator. Who the hell did Col Yeey "liberate"? I can say the SNM militias fought hard and militarily liberated Waqooyi-Galbeed from Barre's (aun) Army. Col Yeey's involvement with the SSDF was one of the main reasons for its eventual failure. Instead of the SSDF being a tool to fight an oppressive regime, Col Yeey and his supporters turned it into a subclan family picnic to re-launch themselves back into power. With the SNM, generally speaking, they stuck to the ideology of fighting the oppressive regime. That's what I was referring to.

 

And my dislike of the Mbegathi process? Let me say it again: 4.5 Formula. No man on this planet can convince me that there are people and there are .5 people. Because there's no such thing as a .5 person. Its un-Islamic, ridiculous and flat-out tribalist in every sense of the word.

[LANDER]

Originally posted by Alpha-Geeljire:

(a member of the SSDF,

role model of the SNM

), so I don't get your dislike of the outcomes of Mbagathi, and of him.

 

^

[Qudhac]

wind talker

 

it seems you are very angry these days

 

 

if we somalilanders are pathetic what do you call the ones that imitates every step Sl takes

[Taleexi]

Mr. Qudhac..I am sitting beside myself on your post and can't decipher what you are trying to propagate here. what is wrong with it, if you are a step ahead and someone emulates or learn from you?

 

Toohe Jr.

[Alpha-Geeljire]

Wind I think it's better to become a rebel and fight your government to get back to power, then to legalize KHAT

 

 

I can say the SNM militias fought hard and militarily

liberated

Waqooyi-Galbeed from Barre's (aun) Army.

Oh they did

 

 

OK

[Xudeedi]

Originally posted by wind.talker:

^^

And my dislike of the Mbegathi process? Let me say it again:

4.5 Formula. No man on this planet can convince me that there are people and there are .5 people. Because there's no such thing as a .5 person. Its un-Islamic, ridiculous and flat-out tribalist in every sense of the word.

Nicely put, but .5 representations politically, demographically, and logically are well justified? I don’t see the moral and religious ground to represent our brothers inhumanely subordinate comparing to the rest of us, but the lawmakers and the framers of our constitution realized that it was impossible to put them in the same league as the four big clan powers . Why? It will affect the political outcome of Somali reconciliation and the distribution of scarce resources. Hence, the decision made by our lawmakers is based on consensus and not majority rule system.

 

 

Wlc, Toohe Jr.

[Alpha-Geeljire]

First, I think the .5 means they aren't a major clan, the six major clans, who are politically more involved in Somalia.

 

 

Not necessary meaning they are half a human.

[Ex-Socrates]

I reserve my opinion about the prof. Sometimes he makes sense to advocate for Somaliland's liberation out of the misery. It is not fun to maintain order under meager budget. They could use the benefits that come with being a sovereign state. IMF and World Bank would come in to indebt them whilst roads and schools would be built. Addis would offer some incentive as a route for trade, however miniscule a revenue generated.

and Somali (miserable humans) would get another Djibouti.

What is the big deal, I ask?

[Taleexi]

Attencion amigos!, I guess none of us needs that I give here a background info of what we've gone through as a nation for the last 15 years or so. Thus, it is self-evident that the 4.5 formula is utterly wrong. it doesn't represent evenly among somali communities. Having said that we are a failed nation and we've to start from somewhere. then don't you guys think something may emerge from this endeavor since life is all about trails and errors?.

 

Think about this, if we didn't even have this 4.5 formula today, I assure you the topic of the discussion would have being lots of more bad news coming from here and there. So guys hold your horses back and let us make this formula best out of it. Remember time will come when power will be shared equally and the wealthy will be distributed evenly and in proportion.

 

Before I forget.. Thanks Maakhir

 

Toohe Jr. .

[LANDER]

Originally posted by Dr Stinky Goddfrey:

I reserve my opinion about the prof. Sometimes he makes sense to advocate for Somaliland's liberation out of the misery. It is not fun to maintain order under meager budget. They could use the benefits that come with being a sovereign state. IMF and World Bank would come in to indebt them whilst roads and schools would be built. Addis would offer some incentive as a route for trade, however miniscule a revenue generated.

and Somali (miserable humans) would get another Djibouti.

What is the big deal, I ask?

^ I would agree if our state fell pray to these notions of hyperglobalization, than such an outcome as you described wouldn't be far fetched unless that is, we follow a similar path to that of Malaysia. As in very little institutional (i.e.IMF) interference in the political economy of the state no matter how bleak certain economic periods might seem. In short, taking their money isn't so bad, it's their limitative policies that come with the money that often hurt.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Qudhac:

wind talker

it seems you are very angry these days

The funny thing is, his fellow 'patriot' who started the whole thread claims to be from.. wait for it..'Hargeisa'.

 

Originally posted by Nayruus:

But the most dangerous and evil of these “international supporters†is the retired British anthropologist, Mr I.M Lewis who relentlessly advocates for the recognition of “ Somaliland â€

Why blame Pro. Lewis for writing that letter when the people poetrytranslation.soas. who invited the poet (Gaariye) already are aware of Somalia/Somaliland.

 

 

Pro. Lewis is one among many scholars who have who have been known to support Somaliland's case. If Pro. Lewis is a Colonist, what can you accuse someone like Pro. Ali Mazrui (both Muslim and African) and supports Somaliland?

 

Originally posted by Maakhir:

For many purposes, the implicit motive of such authors in downplaying the importance of naming a region like

Haylaan

and towns like Badhan, Erigavo, and Las Qorei could produce regressive ideaological shift that is detriment to the health of these regions’ solidarity. Therefore,

I ask the withdrawal of the adaptability of such tone before it sets in and because of the discomfort that that entails.

Discomfort? You're clearly in the wrong section of SOL Mr...

 

Brother what you don't understand is; to the patriots above "Haylaan" (i.e Highland) has colonial connotations which they'd rather you didn't bring up. Care to invent a ''nationalistic'' brand more suitable for the campaign?

[Warmoog]

To be honest, these increasingly outlandish Lewis critiques, and their imprudent authors, are now far beyond trite. This particular article does not really explicate the reasons for which Lewis supports Somaliland. (Did anyone even notice?) Maybe the author penned his thoughts expecting them to be received unquestioningly or, worse yet, marvelled at as snippets of critically analytic genius, but that they are not. Some may find his repellent combination of conjecture, rumour, and 'creative fiction' satisfying, but I'm sure sensible readers understand why writings in which those devices are employed are neither convincing nor, conceivably, entirely truthful.

 

In my opinion, the author's reduction of all things to a purely tribes-oriented schema - one that somehow manages to still implicate Lewis - cheapens the article beyond redemption, while his allusion to the homogeneity myth offers a tidbit that will prove memorable only for its absurdity. Mr. Mirreh's evocation of the Dervish movement is not so much absurd as it is out of place. I suppose the need to revive glories of the past, so as to find a sense of self in the present, always trumps considerations of historical context.

 

It's just amazing how idealized thoughts and images of sword-wielding men on horseback, directing their righteous indignation at God only knows what, place an almost glamorous veneer over the longstanding hallmarks of the Somali experience: poverty, illiteracy, and jahiliya.

[Taleexi]

Yasmine, Your logic also seems a well-organized, baised argument favoring for secession rather taking into account all elements pertaining SLs saga.

 

In any event, we are not talking about here the life standards of either G8 or Svandanivian nations as a matter of fact if you remember we somalis in the horn are the most poor, desperate and displaced in the hungry-paradise(Somalia).

 

Finally, if my memory serves me right here an average person living in Hargeisa is no much different than one who is either in Las Anod or Bosaso.

 

The old somali adage holds still to be true here "Sidi sidi daada mooyee dhul dhacaaga hubso"

[Warmoog]

^^^

Walaal, it's obvious that people extend the group pathologies associated with 'tribalism' to these political camps with which they align themselves. For instance, articles written by authors whose views are discernibly anti-secession frequently pass with very little (if any) criticism – no matter how well deserved – from the resident pro-unity/Somaliweyn camp(s).

 

The manner in which this latest Lewis critique has been received is merely a continuation of that tradition. Since I issued the harshest criticism thus far, it's not particularly surprising that you are now wafting the air and catching whiffs of a pro-secession inclination coming from this direction. It's all rather convenient, I say, but it still demonstrates that you are operating with a tacit understanding of those 'unspoken rules'. The same rules that allow incredibly poor and ineffective articles to pass time and again, very often without so much as a murmur of disapproval.

 

Anyway, regardless of what you think my argument seems like, my personal views on Somaliland and secession would be wholly inconsequential so far as this topic is concerned. Those views would not make my criticism of the article any more or less accurate, and that criticism still stands so you are more than welcome to challenge it. Is there anything in particular that you disagree with or is this exercise just meant to quickly render my argument obsolete by saying it has a pro-secession bias? What are your views on the article? Do tell.