The treachery of the secessionists has no limits: Letter to Israel

[RedSea]

Assalamu Calaykum,

 

Dear Mr. Me,

 

Please don't stop posting, remember this is a discusion board. Keep it rolling.

 

I thank you for the good compliments and sure everything you said there about the laxoox, sabaayad eating comparison is all acurate. There is no doubt in my mind that we share or are as close as two human beings who are not identical twins could be. That is a fact that I have always believed. I think even Qudhac can't deny that fact.

 

The only thing that I would like to get off my chest here is that, saxib I am not supporting for any nation to be divided, I am only saying that since the whole former Somali republic is currently in chaos except for the Somaliland, Northeast region of Puntland. Then there is no point to really pointing the finger to one region and yes I understand why you are doing it, because it's your home region, but I am talking about others from other regions, who don't put much effort and skip over in stressing the problems that are facing us all from every region and rather make it seem as though Somaliland is the only problem.

 

Another thing that bothers me is when people try to bring religion as if one particular region is more righteous than the other. If we had rightous regions among us, we wouldn't have experienced civil wars and amnosity towards one another. Which proves that since Somalis are suffering from Qabiil and amnosity towards each other, then that must mean that we are in this together and no region in the former Somali republic is more rightous than the other or more immoral and unrighteous. If we could get this straighten out then we are good.

 

Finally, if you want unity my dear friend, how about the unity under the Islamic courts? them is who I support to unite us all. I am willing as everyone else should to support the courts for there is hope in uniting the Somali people for once and for all under the Islamic sharia.

 

P.s, I am what the Southern Somalis consider Qaldaan and heck yeah I am proud of it. Also, you think you better looking than me eh, well we will see about that remeo.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed:

^^

Brother, I think what have said is one of the main problems of a return to nationhood. by this, I am refering your opinion that only under the right leadership will support unity, tel then, you will support the dismemberment of our nation. A sociaty can not be governed if every one, every entity, every group believes they have right to veto every action of sovereign government. It always bother when I read that clan so and so, adminitration so and so and hebel aya "kalsoonidi kala noqdey" so and so. In a democratic society, unless we want to remain in anarchy forever, a citizen must accept the will of the majority. I don't like so and so will can not be accepted as a legtemate reason to reject the will of an entire nation. For those who have made a sport out of bashing the character of our president and find it reasonable to reject or accept government based on their affinity for or hate of a certain leader, please. How can their be governance in a sociaty were everyone, person, group, faction, party, region, clan is veto wielding entity? Can you imagine this in any nation but ours? Even in America were the most of the citizens (more then 62%) do not approve of the their national leadership, do not demand such a thing. The will of one can not overide that of the majority.

As far as I know, Abdullahi Yusuf isn't capable of leading a nation. And what legitimate government is there for me to say we should unite under? Abdullahi Yusuf was "elected" in '04 and he hasn't made any changes. Calling for unity under the TFG is like calling for unity under Puntland region as far I can tell, because most of the Somali don't support this so called transitional government, so present me with legitimate government with a legitimate leader, then we can have an argument about this.

 

In case you might ask, mind are the courts backed up by most of Somalis and it has respected leader in Shiekh Sharif Axmed. I have my reason for apposing Abdullahi Yusuf, so what are yours in apposing the courts if I may ask sir?

 

I think it is a huge mistake to compare a Muslim nation like us to a non Muslim nation. There is no such thing as majority rule in my agenda, it's what is right and what is wrong. The country shall be ruled according the Islamic sharia. All muslims are in support of the Sharia law except for few,those particular individuals are the minority then.

[me]

Dear Red Sea,

 

As you can see from the quote below my position on the ICU is clear and it hasn’t changed.

 

Originally posted by me:

Gediid the wadaads can liberate all Somali territories according to me.

Aways telling the Ethio's to handover Western Somalia was a great moment, the first Somali leader in ages to be that brave. If the wadaads are planning to UNITE all of Somalia. Then why not support them. They are as Somali as any other faction, plus they seem like an attractive option.

 

-United country

-Unitary system

-Anti-corruption

-They would also resist Ethiopian meddling in our affairs

-Pro-business

-And ruthless when it comes to law enforcement

 

Well the wadaads are not a bad option and they would be a more attractive option if they mixed some more nationalism with that Islamism. And them showing a more diverse face in their leadership would appeal to all Somali groups.

 

I am waiting for their grand plan for Somalia.

In your post you have talked about that some regions claim to be more righteous then other regions, I have not conducted a religious census on all the people Somali, but commons sense would say that practicing religion is a personal affair and that a whole region should not be termed anti-religious.

 

However these rumours are not baseless, these rumours are being fuelled by those in the North West who are supporting actions that are anti-Somali and anti-Islamic and that are against our culture and faith.

 

The points I am raising on this issue are.

- The denouncing of the Dervish Movement and demonising them, while glorifying the colonial British soldiers and even holding a commemoration for the dead colonials.

- The two articles that I have posted on this tread on the Israel issue.

- The recent movements towards calling the xabash soldiers who worked with the SNM ‘Mujaahideen’

- Calling the SNM mujahidiin, while this group was far from that and its countless crimes against civilians are still not recognized by a large group of the people in the North West.

 

All these acts put together are painting a picture that the people of the North West are far from our culture and our faith, although this is wrong not many people are protesting against them. You and I are the only people from the North West who have condemned these actions (the pro-Israeli articles), there are many others here but they are keen on supporting these anti-Islamic and anti-Somali views. This can be seen through their deliberate actions in justifying the pro-Israeli articles.

 

Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea:

[QB]

 

I am only saying that since the whole former Somali republic is currently in chaos except for the Somaliland, Northeast region of Puntland. Then there is no point to really pointing the finger to one region and yes I understand why you are doing it, because it's your home region

I do understand that the rest of the country is in chaos, but in my opinion that should be no obstacle for wanting a united country, in my case, I see this civil war a fresh start and that we can rebuild a new Somalia that if for us all.

 

Mr. Red Sea, I would like to hear you say in clear words that you are for the unity of the Somali people and that we are one and the same people and that the secession is wrong.

[RedSea]

assalamu Calaykum,

 

Dear Mr.Me,

 

I thought we were so close to reaching healthy conclusion, but once again you have raised some disturbing and irrational comments directed towards one specific region. Please before I say anything else read on what I had to say previously.You seem to be giving no attention whatsoever of what I am writing, so would you please restraint from this way of addressing the people. You don't need to do a list from your personal view point and make it seem as though its factual, make sure you give special attention in seperating your opinions from facts.

 

I don't think I need to prove anything to you anymore, my stand has been firm and clear. So instead of asking me of where I stand in this current Somali fiasco, you need to find the threads that I have casted my opinions regarding my position.

 

thanks,

 

Assalamu Calaykum.

[me]

Mr. Red Sea,please read what I wrote. I believe that you are jumping to a conclusion without understanding what I wrote.

 

I have also requested from you that you would say in clear words that you are pro-unity and the secession is wrong.

[RedSea]

I have actually read what you said, and quite honestly I can tell you most of it is what a 2year child would compose. Because you seem to be in stage 1 of the debate.

 

I am pro unity and seccesion depending on the circumstances. I have already told you that I prefer unity under the courts or any other trusted and honest leader, but unity under any other sort of government is just pointless and destined to fail. I am arguing based on the reality on the ground, yours is mostly in theory.

[me]

Mr. Red Sea,

 

Whether I debate like a 2 year old or like a 70 year old, my arguments are clear.

 

In my opinion the secession will fail under any circumstance and I am basing my argument also on the reality of the ground. The split between the people on the North on this issue is my main argument. Let alone, the illegality of the secession and its immorality.

 

I am also pro-unity under an honest leadership, have you heard me say that I was supporting any dishonest leader?

 

I am not basing anything on theory; I am thinking further then the current situation. One has to think of new solutions and not always depend on that the status quo will stay the same. Things can change if people open their mind up for new ideas, but if people shut them selves out for change, things will forever be the same. So by not thinking forward you are actually keeping things as they are.

[ElPunto]

^Hasn't this sort of debate gone on too long on SOL? Doesn't there come a time where one says - I don't agree with secession but I wish them well and inshallah I hope they will reunite willingly with the rest of the country.?!

[me]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

I wish them well and inshallah I hope they will reunite willingly with the rest of the country.?!

The point who is this 'they'?

 

I as a Northerner have a say in this and in my opinion the secession is wrong, are you saying that my opinion does not count? And why should I or the likes of me wish the secessionists well, while they are clearly thinking about their interest alone, should I not think of my interest as well? The issue is not up to the secessionists alone. It is up to all the stakeholders in the matter. So that would mean all of us Northerners in the first place, then all Somalis, then the region. Thinking that only one group has a say in this and that that group are the secessionists would be faulty and very dangerous for us all.

[RedSea]

assalamu calaykum,

 

Dear Mr. Me

 

waxaa layidhi hadal haamo lagama buuxshee. Allah knows it best. Maybe the recent events that unfolded in the South with the courts getting rid of the warlords could be the break through of a new Islamic Somali state that is transforming right infront of our eyes. Insha Allah, ilaahay ayaa ka dhigi sidii wanaagsan.

 

Assalamu calaykum.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by me:

quote:Originally posted by ThePoint:

I wish them well and inshallah I hope they will reunite willingly with the rest of the country.?!

The point who is this 'they'?

 

I as a Northerner have a say in this and in my opinion the secession is wrong, are you saying that my opinion does not count? And why should I or the likes of me wish the secessionists well, while they are clearly thinking about their interest alone, should I not think of my interest as well? The issue is not up to the secessionists alone. It is up to all the stakeholders in the matter. So that would mean all of us Northerners in the first place, then all Somalis, then the region. Thinking that only one group has a say in this and that that group are the secessionists would be faulty and very dangerous for us all.

'They' are the people of Somaliland, northwest Somalia whatever you wanna call it. The point is you can disagree with secession and wish Somalis well. The other point is - debate that keeps coming back to the same hangups becomes futile and the wise person would agree to disagree :rolleyes:

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

As far as I know, Abdullahi Yusuf isn't capable of leading a nation. And what legitimate government is there for me to say we should unite under? Abdullahi Yusuf was "elected" in '04 and he hasn't made any changes. Calling for unity under the TFG is like calling for unity under Puntland region as far I can tell, because most of the Somali don't support this so called transitional government, so present me with legitimate government with a legitimate leader, then we can have an argument about this.

 

In case you might ask, mind are the courts backed up by most of Somalis and it has respected leader in Shiekh Sharif Axmed. I have my reason for apposing Abdullahi Yusuf, so what are yours in apposing the courts if I may ask sir?

 

I think it is a huge mistake to compare a Muslim nation like us to a non Muslim nation. There is no such thing as majority rule in my agenda, it's what is right and what is wrong. The country shall be ruled according the Islamic sharia. All muslims are in support of the Sharia law except for few,those particular individuals are the minority then.

Brother, you continue to personify an entire government. Your approval of or disapproval of a member of government is not a sound reason to reject or accept a government. The ability of members of government to lead our nation is something we must determine collectively, at election time. The TFG was elected by the representatives of all Somali clans (Who they choose to send to the conference is their affairs wither it was warlords or elected members of the local administration such as Puntland). Also, it is an intrem government, one that is supposed pave the way for a directly elected.

 

You ask:I have my reason for apposing Abdullahi Yusuf, so what are yours in apposing the courts if I may ask sir? Its simple. Our country has been held hostage by greedy poeple who sole objective is to undermine any attempt at reinstating a government in our country. To do so, they mislead poor people into believing that they mean good when all they want is is more booty. They have become more and more adept at this but are abvous to anyone that really wants to see them for what they are. The court are nothing more than the warlords they claim to be after even though they have they worse one, maybe evenmore. Several things have lead me to this. They have clearified that they intend to grap as much land as possible while while sharif claims otherwise. They have broken agreements while they accuse the TFG of doing so. They say they acknowledge the legitimacy of the government but continue to attack its legitimacy. Furthermore, there is something barbaric, taliban like, about the way they deal with people. Flogging band members at a wedding with wires, calling for the death of those who do not pray, stopping people and even shooting those who watch football games which has Saudi arabia as one of the teams, shooting protester in jowhar, shaving the hairs of people because their cuts are too western. Somalis have been muslims for hundreds of years, how arrogant, of them to think they will bring islam to one the worlds hundful of nations that are more than ninety percent muslim.

 

Lastly, I am disturbed by how modern Muslims will

call any and everything western. The rule of the majority is an Idea that is Somali as it is western. This has nothing to do with your hatred of a certain part of the world. If a Sociaty is not governed through the will of the majority, how is to be done. Please let know because your idea that one should only follow and do only what is right when it comes to governence can only exist in anarchy.

[me]

Mr. Red Sea,

 

Your right ‘Hadal Haamo ma buuxsho’. Ilaahayso kuwii wax isu qabta un ayuu wax la qabtaa. The ICU’s moves are positive in inshalah they will bring peace to our land and unite us all. However in my opinion many pro-secessionists are supporting the courts nowadays because they would to see the Somalis in the Death triangle to suffer more and the war to continue so that it would it help their bid for secession. This animosity to our Somali brothers will not be forgotten and it is harming the solidarity among the Somali people, not only because we are from the same nation but also as Muslims we should wish no harm on each other.

 

Originally posted by ThePoint:

'They' are the people of Somaliland, northwest Somalia whatever you wanna call it. The point is you can disagree with secession and wish Somalis well. The other point is - debate that keeps coming back to the same hangups becomes futile and the wise person would agree to disagree :rolleyes: [/QB]

The point- it’s either we debate this issue and we as brothers and come to a fair conclusion or we fight each other to death. There is no middle ground here. So there will be no agreeing to disagree. This situation will not forever stay like this, in a statemate; either we the people of the North West will choose for peace, unity and coexistence or we will go down together. If the alternative to dialogue and discussions is war then is it not worth talking this issue to death, then fighting each other to death?

[RedSea]

Originally posted by me:

However in my opinion many pro-secessionists are supporting the courts nowadays because they would to see the Somalis in the Death triangle to suffer more and the war to continue so that it would it help their bid for secession. This animosity to our Somali brothers will not be forgotten and it is harming the solidarity among the Somali people, not only because we are from the same nation but also as Muslims we should wish no harm on each other.

Once again brother you are being unfair to some Somalis. I think there are people who would see the status quo in the south to stay the same, but they are not only limited to Somaliland.

 

Naxar Nugaaleed,

 

define the term government for me and tell me if the TFG fits anywhere in your defination. Besides that, as a brother from SOL once said, in the TFG, every Somali clan put forth their worst AND the courts, the best of the best in terms of rightousness.

 

that is all I have to say.