An Advice to Galmudug and Puntland: Merge.

[xiinfaniin]

ElPunto,

 

You are making vague statements adeer. You are deliberately dodging questions I asked based on the assertions you made that the both communities are not on the same political thinking, that there is no interest in the proposed merge, and that Galmudug is looking for Mogadishu for directions, and is not a federal state.

 

What is the criterion of recognizing an admin as a federal state, ElPunto? And who agreed to that criterion, if one exists? If Beledweyne declares tomorrow a federal state, who has the authority and the power to effectively deny that right to her, ElPunto?

 

Further more, I have not claimed that this proposed merge enjoys support in all stakeholders in the regions concerned. All I did was propose what I thought and still think is better than the status quo. You on the other hand made assertions that warranted further propping because if those assertions are found to be true it could kill the whole notion of a political merge. One argument, which I respect and understand, is the scope problem of this proposal. You asked the question why not Galkacyo specific merge or agreement. I gave you my assessment of the political sensibilities and how it’s difficult to divorce Galmudug’s claim on the city from any eventual agreement with them. You failed to counter that assessment, ElPunto.

 

If you think this thing is not feasible, tell me why without making assertions and broad statements you cannot substantiate. I granted the scope issue, but in the absence of an alternative a complete merger remains to be the only consideration.

[ElPunto]

Vague? Really? I was trying to show you where the problems lie but the onus is on you prove your case:

 

Don't you have to demonstrate they are indeed of the same political thinking before a merger is done?

 

Don't you have demonstrate an interest in forming a union exists in both Puntland and Galmudug?

 

Don't you have to demonstrate that Galmudug is looking to itself to solve its problems and has the apparatus and popular support of a state thus meeting the requirements for a 'merger'?

 

Others on this thread have talked about why Galmudug is not a state in the very rudimentary criteria one uses for Somalia. Unless of course you think that assertion of a state equals actual existence? I won't rehash this stuff. If you need a long post on why there is not much there there - let me know.

 

Whatever Galmudug's claim on the city - the objective should be to build trust and cooperation in order to improve the security of the city. At which point if there is a maturation on both sides and grassroots agreement, to make Galkacyo a politically united city.

 

You can agree with the Galmudug administration on certain parameters and procedures for Galkacyo to move beyond the current problems. Why that must entail regions merging is beyond me really?

 

How you jump over making an agreement on the city of Galkacyo and its security to making an agreement on a region wide merger escapes me? Why you think the Galmudug admin will reject a Galkacyo based agreement and will accept a region wide merger makes no sense to me?

[xiinfaniin]

ElPunto,

 

Adeer, I don’t have to prove anything to you. I called for a sensible proposal to solve the Galkacyo problem. Others and you jumped the gun declaring the whole thing unworkable. I asked why. You dodged. Others called a political merger with Cwaq, and sadly failed to see the possibility of one in Galkacyo.

 

It’s clear the only obstacle standing in the way of creating a politically cohesive state that encompasses from Las Qoray to Hobyo is silly clannish perceptions.

 

We predict it will be a matter of time when leaders in both political fences realize that these perceptions are false, and people share same aspirations. When Galkacyo is united politically it will usher a new political reality that transcends leanage, a federal state that is hard to compete for influence.

[ElPunto]

Oh my goodness. I have given three reasons why this might not be workable. When I asked you to show me how those objections were unwarranted you respond 'I don't have to prove anything'. And you're the ONE making the proposal in the first place. Specifically - what questions have I dodged? Give me chapter and verse. I won't be fobbed off with statements that are simply untrue.

 

That you attribute objections to 'silly clannish perceptions' is a conclusion that speaks either to you and your character. Or it could be that you have little other response for valid objections and holes in your argument. I sincerely hope it is the latter.

[xiinfaniin]

^^So now you are speculating my character, ElPunto?

 

Adeer you are being childish.

 

These are the questions I asked you:

 

1- how you do you know that both sides are not ready for a political merge, and there is no interest for it?

2- how do you arrive the conclusion that Galmudug is not interested in federalism or is not one?

 

And finally what are the requirements for a political merger between the two that you are alluding to? Or you don’t favor such proposal simply because you want to preserve Puntland’s identity ?

 

Sidii ninweyn u hadal waryee, and stop the capacity nonsense, we are not talking about merging two european countries.

[ElPunto]

Adeer when I did talk to you like a grown man - you said your objections were based on clannish reasons when I have given repeatedly well thought objections which you refused to address. You will have to excuse me if such a response from you resulted in my speculation on your character although in your defense I did mention another possible rationale.

 

Your questions I will respond to with questions:

 

Is there any indications of the maturity and interest in a merger? I means how did you arrive at they're ready to merge? How do you know there is any interest in it?

 

For me the two parties can't even sort out Galkacyo and resort to accusations against each other just like in the case of the 5 Pakistanis killed earlier this year. That tells me they're not ready for a merger. They're not even ready to tackle the issues that divide them in their own city.

 

I didn't say Galmudug is not interested in federalism. It just isn't much of a state. Apart from a few parts the region it claims it doesn't control. Can you even name the head of Galmudug? I can't - I doubt many in this forum can. There are some basics that you need if you are talking about a state and a merger.

 

The very minimum requirements for a political merger are grassroots support and an agreement on rights and responsibilities. Puntland's identity is a federal Somali state. What identity are you refering to exactly? It's amazing you make these nods and winks and then accuse others of childishness.

 

Saaxib - it's time for you to answer the hard questions about the proposal you made. I pointed out the holes in it. And here you keep asking me the same things over and over again. Please make an assertive case in responsive to these questions:

 

Are the two regions indeed of the same political thinking before a merger is done?

 

What indicates there is an interest in forming a union in both Puntland and Galmudug?

 

Is Galmudug looking to itself to solve its problems and has it the apparatus and popular support of a state thus meeting the requirements for a 'merger'?

 

Additionally - What requirements are there for 2 regions to join? Do you have any minimums?

[xiinfaniin]

^^Pardon me adeer for I have yet to see the well-thought objection you claim you have made against the merger proposal.

 

What I have seen you do is make statements that could not stand for scrutiny.

 

Now you realize the ineffectiveness of your approach, you resorted asking questions to answer my questions . And in the questions you asked one could see, that you either did not read the introductory remarks of this post, or you are looking for an opportunity of escape.

 

To begin with I did not claim that both sides have reached political maturity for the type of political merger I proposed neither did I claim there is wide spread interest for it. All I did was describe the untenable status quo of Galkacyo, and the fact that what has been holding the city from making the security and political progress is perceived incompatibility of interests of the two communities that share it. I also noted if the interactions between the groups, and their general tendency of engaging with each other on many levels is anything to go by, then a political merger between may not be a farfetched proposition. In fact, I called for such eventuality, listing what I thought was the benefits and giants it could entail. On another level I listed the challenges and obstacles that could get in the way and need overcoming.

 

The two admins are not the same size. They have different history and background, one has been functioning for close to a decade, and the other is just starting out. Both entities think of themselves as federal states. There is no doubt that PL is much advanced in making the political and structural realities for federalism on the ground. It may not be fair to describe it that way, but Galmudug is Galkacyo centered and derives its identity from Galkacyo, neglecting even other locales including historic Hobyo. Puntland also attaches great importance to the city of Galkacyo as it’s its second largest city and strategic commercial hub. The SSDF/USC treaty is outdated and can no longer be relied, as it was in practice a mere cease fire between the two communities. Today political realities on both grounds have drastically changed. Puntland is no longer organized on defense objectives is now engaged in shaping the nature of future federal Somalia while communities in South Galkacyo have taken steps to establish an admin of theirs that considers itself a federal state. It’s my opinion save from outright dominance of one group the only way to save the city and ensure its political and security stability is to align the interests of both groups. And the most effective way of doing so is to exact some sort of political unity that does away the zero sum game, which has been what has caused great pain and suffering for the residents of Galkacyo.

 

I know it’s a change from reer hebel waa col , and I can understand other well meaning posters to resist it, but you, ElPunt, despite your effort to sound deep, missed the whole point of this proposal, and resorted making statements that were quite frankly rather silly, like Galmudug is small, it's no federal state, and other things that you could not substantiate when inquired.

 

So what is wrong Puntland merging with Galmudug, other than they are two different clans ? In the absence of some sort of Political unity, what are the alternatives for the city? I don’t believe the status quo is sustainable. The city is risking an all out civil war if a lasting solution is not found.

[xiinfaniin]

ElPunto asked following questions [in bold].

 

Are the two regions indeed of the same political thinking before a merger is done?

 

I think they are. Both groups want to be part of a future federal state, so politically the eng goals seem to be in sync.

 

What indicates there is an interest in forming a union in both Puntland and Galmudug?

 

The level of interest for a political merger remains to be seen. The need for it however is clear as it manifested in the situation of Galkacyo. Without some sort of merging, the situation of Galkacyo will worsen.

 

Is Galmudug looking to itself to solve its problems and has it the apparatus and popular support of a state thus meeting the requirements for a 'merger'?

 

I think you are having difficult understanding the basics of Somali politics. It’s not so much as adequacy in capacity, it’s rather the political will of the community that is in involved. From what I can tell this community has been very active in Somali politics, and seems to have decided to create its political identity around Galkacyo and the Galmudug admin. So the only requirement for this to happen is whether the parties see the need for it and are willing to make it happen.

 

Additionally - What requirements are there for 2 regions to join? Do you have any minimums?

 

The requirement for any two regions to join that I can think of is geographical contiguity and convergence of the interests of their community whom they derive their authority. Of course, the will to merge has to be firstly established.

[ElPunto]

Pardon me adeer - it seems you have finally started to answer my well-thought objections that you were unable to see before. That is progress indeed. For someone making the assertive case you seemed to ask a lot of your critics.

 

I'm glad you have acknowleged that there is no political maturity to undertake this merger nor is there any widespread interest. That is an acknowlegdement of reality. Yet you still think a merger of 2 regions is the right solution to the problems of 1 city? Adeer I think you have to admit you're proposing the wrong medicine to the illness here.

 

What needs to happen in Galkacyo is that trust through cooperation must be built up over time. At that time a political unity of the city can be worked out. To solve the problem of Galkacyo address Galkacyo not regions.

[xiinfaniin]

I have been very generous with you. I asked questions, you dodged. You asked questions, I gave responses. There lies the difference between a troll and a debate.

 

But if you really think your beginner like questions are akin to a well thought objection, you're having a deeper problem than I initially thought. At this point, it seems you found yourself in the wrong thread and are eager to exit. I am not going to prolong your stay. So go ahead, and troll some other threads.

 

 

But for the record, I have NOT said that there is no political maturity to undertake such a proposed merger. I said the level of the two communities’ maturity and interest remains to be seen, implying once the initiative is on the table we will see the level of their interest. I also said that the need for it is quite clear.

 

Galkacyo housed these two communities for close to hundred years. And in the last twenty years, the city has been in a political limbo that dwarfed its progress, and drained its learned community. What we proposed is not the stuff of the faint hearted; it requires a political courage and vision that sees what unity could do for both communities. The status quo, ElPunto, has been to address Galkacyo as a city, and it failed quite miserably. If you are in favor of such formula, you should not have wasted ink on talking on proposition that drastically departs from the status quo.

[Qandalawi]

Xiin come out of it, this idea is grand but not practical given the factors in Somalia. Rediculing and reducing all out arguments to pure clanish is not wise Awoowe, even at that one can make an argument for it, where is Ngonge to tell: Clan is everything, everything (In Somali politics)

[ElPunto]

Adeer I was mistaken as to you. After all this time on SOL and my posts to be called a troll. And a dodger. And a beginner.

 

To begin with I did not claim that both sides have reached political maturity for the type of political merger I proposed neither did I claim there is wide spread interest for it.

But for the record, I have NOT said that there is not political maturity to undertake such a proposed merger. I said the level of the two communities’ maturity and interest remains to be seen, implying once the initiative is on the table we will see the level of their interest.

They have not reached political maturity or it still remains to be seen? This is confusing.

 

I did not propose the status quo. This is what I proposed repeatedly:

 

What needs to happen in Galkacyo is that trust through cooperation must be built up over time. At that time a political unity of the city can be worked out. To solve the problem of Galkacyo address Galkacyo not regions.

 

I haven't found myself in the wrong thread. I simply asked some questions. Questions which you clearly did not like and have only belatedly responded to after much prodding. Hence the unflattering references and the attempt at running me out of a thread. I will continue to post my opinions for the gallery but I will stop addressing you.

[xiinfaniin]

^^War heedhee, maanta sibaa wax kaa yihiin.

 

 

Did you judge that the two statements I made are contradictory or mutually exclusive?

If that is the case, I am battling with a comprehension issue now .

 

KKL, give it a try awoowe, and tell me why it's not practical when the two groups already share a city. At some point before Faroole's admin took over, the revenues from the airport were shared with the other side. So why not try to politically unite them.

[General Duke]

Duke, give it a try awoowe,

I think you have Duke on your mind?

[xiinfaniin]

Maamullada Puntland iyo Gal-Mudug oo Gaalkacyo u sameynaya Qad cagaaran oo kala bara Labada Maamul

 

Arbaco, January 13, 2010(HOL): Masuulyiin ka kala tirsan maamullada Puntland iyo Gal-Mudug ayaa bilaabay kulamo xasaasi ah oo ku aadan ammaanka magaalada Gaalkacyo iyo sidii looga heshiin lahaa dagaalkii dhex maray labada Maamul.

 

 

 

Kulamadaan ayaa yimid ka dib markii Puntland uu soo gaaray Wasiirka Macdanta iyo biyaha DFKMG ah ee Somaliya Jen. C/Xasan Cawaale Qaybdiid ,kaasi oo labada dhinac ku qanciyay in ay ka heshiiyaan colaaddii dhex taalay

 

 

 

Guddoomiyaha Gobolka Mudug Col, Axmed Cali Salaad oo la hadlay saxaafadda ayaa sheegay in meel wanaagsan ay marayaan wada hadallada u dhexeeya labada maamul ,isagoo tilmaamay in ay la kulmeen ergo ka socotay Gal Mudug.

 

 

 

Waxaa kaloo uu sheegay guddoomiyaha in lagu heshiin doono sidii loo samayn lahaa Qad u dhaxeeya labada dhinac si aysan labada Maamul mar danbe isugu qabsan arrimaha canshuuraha

 

 

 

Dhinaca kale Maamulka Gal Mudug ayaa u muuqda in uu aqbalay heshiiska ku aadan arrimahaasi, waxaana labada Maamul ay hadda dadaal ugu jiraan xal u helida arrimaha ammaanka

 

 

 

Maamullada Puntland iyo Gal Mudug ayaa Sanadkii hore ku dagaallamay magaalada Gaalkacyo, waxaana hadda la filayaa in ay ka heshiiyaan wixii dhexmaray .