Strong Ethiopia is a threat to Somali people!

[Paragon]

Nomads, Firstly, Bachelor's topic was meant to evaluate the threats posed by the Ethiopian empire to the well-being of our beloved nation. The topic's purpose is to shed some light upon the important issue (an ethio-animosity against Somalia and Somalis) that had spanned across centuries of bloodshed, torture, himuliation and aggrandizement at the expense of our very existance.

 

So please lets not raise unworthy arguments that'll only further deepen the division amongst us. Secondly, this war, in essence, is much older than us or even our fathers, its echoes are symbolised by the Ethiopian emperor, Menelik II's plea to his Euro-Christian brothers in 1891, utterring "Ethiopia has been for fourteen centuries a Christian island in a sea of pagans". Funily, by then he didn't categorize Somalis into clans and regions, but for him all Somalis were "Pagans". However, the same emperor's descendants are the ones whom we look upto and hope mercy from, what a pity. Let me not drag you into that area right now but the fact is once a snake always a snake, and the ethios haven't forgotten about old enmities and grudges, they dwell on the hatred they hold against us.

 

Ethiopia had pursued her on goals inside Somalia and will continue to finish what emperor Haile Sallase described as "The Unfinished Business" that still continues to dominate Ethiopia's strategies, just as it use to be in the days of "Scramble for Africa". Interestingly, when the Europeans scrambled for the rest of Africa, Ethiopia in turn had scrambled for Somalia and her dream to enlarge Abbyssinian empire become true with the help of her christian brothers.

 

What a shame to this day we fail to see this union between Ethios and Europeans, while calling europeans to mediate between us. Either way, what we've read from history books or heard from our parents will be nothing compared to what Ethiopia intends for Somalia. Below is alittle touch of reality and possibilities...

 

Ethiopia's geo-political strategy - Elimi-Nation of Somalis and Somalia from history

 

There is a surety, and all of you have noticed that Somalia has now been divided into fiefdoms, and all these divisions are DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY supported by the Ethiopian regime. Their strategy is to help Somalis seek autonomy from Somalia and form small, militarily ineffective regional governments that adhere to Ethiopian political and cultural ideology, whilst at the same time infiltrating our traditional values with an imposition of Ethiopian models of livelihood. This way the substance of the culture would be undermind by the strong ethio-influences, germinating from several places such as media and presence of a state that is client to Ethiopia. The outcome is deadly, or may i say THE END OF SOMALINESS. When a war of this level is waged against an entire de-centralised society, the result is erosion of basic principles that enforce law and order.

 

The foundation is already being set for this kind of war. Statistically, many households in the provinces that neighbour Ethiopia, there is an employment of many ETHIOPIAN housemaids, who are likely to influence the mental growth of our offsprings; making them familiar with ethiopian values. So far, this is the most worrying factor, it is a war for the hearts and minds of the local Somalis. And as globalization spreads, ethiopia is likey to be successful in spreading her war in ways we wont be able to notice. It is not a wonderment to see a decline of patrioticism within Somalis because we're being systematically targetted by not only Ethiopia but by also the christian world. Insofar, it hasn't been dificult to figure out why so many Somalis are being shipped out of refugee camps in kenya and other neibouring countries.

 

The reasons of shipments of such a large number of Somalis only constitute what some call "a historical ideological war", which as a result would make more Somalis become adaptive to western values, and it is more likely that we would see many Somalis relating to western (christian)values, which creates a possible increase of ethio-sympathetics in Somalia. By the time many of us go back to Somalia, there surely would be a clash of ideology. What threats Ethiopia poses cannot be comprehended by one or two writtings, but hopefully I wish you see things from my my angle once.

[Yusufaddie]

salaam jamaal can you tell me what was the first conflict between Ethiopia and Somalia which caused the hatred up until now?

[Paragon]

Brother Yusuf, Thank you for asking me such an important question. I thank you because i know the importance of this question, and the meaning it carries.

 

There are different narrations as to what has triggered the war between Somalia and Abbysinia. Certainly there are many other reasons that may have started the war, but for me there is one outstanding factor, it is a factor that truly angers every Somali and every Muslim who hears about it. It all started with the plasphemous attack of Menelik II to the Mosque of Harar in around 1890s. Below is alittle example of what Menelik II did to disrespect Islam, written by a his french christian brother who ironically is proud about him.

 

"The walled city of Harar was considered a holy city by the Muslims and its capture by Christians thus added religious animosity to anti-Ethiopian sentiment. The French traveler and writer Henri de Monfreid, who worked for Menelik, tells a story that illustrates this: when Menelik received an emissary from Abdullahi on the eve of Chelenko, the emissary brought a Muslim turban, along with the message that if Menelik wore the turban, the emir's troops would not harm him; if not, then--by Allah!--the emir would tie up him and his men with ropes and dispose of them as he saw fit. Menelik replied that he would wear the turban until the good Lord Medhane Alem (the savior of the world) granted him victory, and he would then stand on the top of the minaret on the central mosque, urinate on it, demolish the mosque, and there build the church of Medhane Alem in its place. Menelik was a man of his word, for the church stands there today.(35)"

 

Checkout this link for more information about the horn of africa issues.

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/GA.htm

[Yusufaddie]

Well i believe that with the administration in Darus Salaam The lands can become sovereign again without bloodshed, however i do not want to say as, wel you know this is the net and well it is confidential.

 

[Gabbal]

Jamaal, aboow i thought the Somali conflict with the Abbysinian/Ethiopian empire started in the 1500's when Ahmed Garaad waged a Jihad on Lebna Dengel, the emporer of Ethiopia at that time ?

[Paragon]

Yes Horn-Afrik it can be said that the war had started around the times of Ahmed gurey (Ahmed Gran'). Some even say that it was earlier than that but ... one factor that has attributed to the current on-going tension between Somalis and Ethios is Menelik's invasion to Harar. It was at that period that Menelik uttered these infamous words "Abyssinia is a christian kingdom in a sea of pagans".

 

The history of this war is very ancient, but i thought i should mention the recent ones. If you do alittle study on the relation between the Kingdom of Axom (not Ethiopia as awhole, coz by then parts of it were under Axum rule) and the Kingdom of Cush of Sudan (which is thought includes Somalis at one stage).... it will become clear that this ethio-somali war was taking place too. Certainly Axmhed gurey's invassion of some parts of abyssinia was a turning point in our History.

[Yusufaddie]

don't know if this is a far reached question but why did ahmad wage jihad and what were the boundaries then?

[SomaliaOnline-President]

Originally posted by Sage:

Ethiopia's geo-political strategy

 

Elimi-Nation of Somalis and Somalia from history

 

There is a surety, and all of you have noticed that Somalia has now been divided into fiefdoms, and all these divisions are DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY supported by the Ethiopian regime. Their strategy is to help Somalis seek autonomy from Somalia and form small, militarily ineffective regional governments that adhere to Ethiopian political and cultural ideology, whilst at the same time infiltrating our traditional values with an imposition of Ethiopian models of livelihood. This way the substance of the culture would be undermind by the strong ethio-influences, germinating from several places such as media and presence of a state that is client to Ethiopia. The outcome is deadly, or may i say THE END OF SOMALINESS.

 

Divide and Conquer. That almost makes me sick.

[Rahima]

Yusuf:

 

Actually akhi, the point you have made is correct (to an extent) only if the jihad is fard kifaayah (in that if the jihad is performed by some of the Muslims, then the obligation falls from the rest of the Muslims). Fard Kifaaya is usually in the case where the Muslims are the attacking force.

 

 

However, in this case, the Muslims are being attacked by the kufaar, this is defensive jihad and this is Fard Ayn. In that it is a compulsory duty on every single Muslim to perform like praying or fasting. This type of jihad does not require the consent of an Amir or khalifah. The Muslims do not need to be told to protect their land and property. In this type of jihad, women and children are also to take part.

 

Brother Yusuf, if we were to go by your reasoning that jihad can only be declared by a khalifah or Amir, then according to this description all the jihads of the world (Filistiin, Shiishaan, Kashmiir etc) would be void, and of course we know that is not the case.

 

Neverthless may Allah accept the deeds of the Muslims.

[Yusufaddie]

Sister Rahiima this is what i am saying. It seems to me and i stand corrected that the animosities between ethiopia and somalia started when garaad launched the jihad. at that time there was the khilafah and the launching of jihad is a duty of the khilafah, even if they are being attacked. i am not talking about sporadic fighting i am talking about mastering up an army and launching an attack. can you tell me when during or after the life of the prophet with in the time of the khulafaa rashiduun that a wali waged jihad? Look at the battle of Mut'a. When the ambassador was killed it was an attack on the muslims and islam, however it was The Amir, Rasullallah that ordered the war. we also learn from this battles that in some cases it is okay to systematically retreat. the palestinians, kashmiris chechen will all be persecuted because they fight as such and not as Muslims. i am not saying that they are void because oppression in islam is not allowed and they must fight however i am saying they all will be defeated and persecuted because they are not fighting as a muslim body rather they are fighting for nation, which is HARAM. In Ogaden the attacks later by Barre was not islamically based and all i am saying is when we do not do for Allah and his deen then whatever efforts we make will not amount to anything, i think as well with the atrocities that ethiopia has done in the ogaden has blinded us and is not allowig us to wake up and return to the islamic form of governance. Allah says in 4:49 They will not believe until they make you judge in all afairs. (read it up and the commentary as well)

[Rahima]

Brother like i said already, forget siyad barre and what were his motives.

 

When jihaad is of a defensive type, it does not need to be declared by a khalifah or amir, i don't understand how you come to conclude otherwise.

 

I’m sure you’ve heard of the hadith of Rasuallah as related by both Bukhari and Muslim:

 

"He who is killed while defending his property is a martyr.''

 

Also as reported by Abu Dauwd and at-tirmidhi, Rasuallah said:

 

"He who dies while defending his property is a martyr; he who dies in defence of his own life is a martyr; and he who dies on defense of his faith is a martyr, he who dies in defence of his family is a martyr.'' (reported by one of the Asharatul-Mubashsharuna bil-Jannah).

 

These people akhi are doing just that and inshallah those that are martyred will be rewarded jannah.

 

Nevertheless, my point was the scholars of Islam have declared it jihad and a layman (such as you and I) have no say.

 

BTW, you can’t come to a conclusion about something in Islam based on one incident, all aspects must be looked at and then a conclusion come to, that is what the scholars are for.

[Yusufaddie]

May we agree even in our disagreement, i am ignorant about all the atrocities the ethiopians have and are doing in the ogaden, however the point i wish to say is this, no matter how strong the enemy is, s long as we stand firm to our faith and have absolutely nothing infront of our faith allah will always grant us Victory, and with this i hope the state of Darus Salaam can reach its zenith.

[Cant_Remember]

Though I'm not here to defend the Ethopian involvement in Somali issue, it's wrong to paint a picture as Ethopia is the only threat to the security of Somalis or, indeed, the formation of somali gov't. For Somali people, the most important obstacles to the good life and gov't come from within. The sooner people recognise that, the easier the solutions will become.

[Yusufaddie]

I agree with you can't and that is why i said that Ethiopia is just a test from Allah, forget about their atrocities etc. they commited, that fact remains that if muslims are being persecuted then they are not following the tariqa of the Rasul. Imam Ahmad narates that rasullah said that the knots of islam each shall be loosed, the first shall be the ruling structure and the last shall be Salaah. Allah says in Maida 49: those who rule by other which allah has revealed verily they are unbelievers.

Let us work to re establish the khilafah system the only way out for somalia

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Xassan Nasra Allah:

even though the single major tribe in the region is ogadens, yet the rest of the somali galbeed ppl, belonging to all the major somali clans disagree with the name. the land is somali galbeed

I know that this may be off topic but it really astonishes me when Somalis think that they have the right to name this region according to their own convenience or what they think it "OUGHT" to be called or what they believe the "POLITICALLY CORRECT" name for it is. What you ppl need to understand is that this is a country that exists apart from Somalia and it has its own history and its own identity...and the name of the land is OGADENIA...whether you (some/many somalis) approve/disapprove, it simply does not need your validation. It is true that different clans live in this country and they have just as much right as the ogadens and NO ONE will ever deprive them of that. Anyone with doubts about the authenticity of the name or the country...please do research...go to any real public library and you will find the information and hopefully that will put an end to your, should I say "quudho wayto"

 

Inasha'Allah, Ogadenia will be liberated with/without the help of other Somalis and Allah (swt) will hopefully bring justice and free those innocent civilians from suppression and will put an end to their despair.

 

Sorry Bachelor, I know this wasn't the topic but some somalis just know how to turn a healthy discussion into dispute esp when it comes to Ethiopia/Ogadenia issues because of their illmindednes and their qabyalist mentalities...and quite frankly, as long as this exists somalis will never be able to unite and form a government and hence why they are vulnerable to threats from other countries especially Ethiopa which I think poses the greatest threat at this instant.