Fabregas Posted April 20, 2008 http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/The%20Mirage%20in%20Iran%20Comp.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seekknowledge Posted April 20, 2008 Wahhabis writting against shias. Shias writting against wahhabis. Hey whatever happened to the ahlulsunna the silent majority? Abu Aminah Philips always talks about dividing the muslims rather than uniting them. Wonder why he kept his non muslim name go figure. Muslims unite. Let the shias and wahhabis fight their own fights we have a country to think of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Umm_Uthman Posted April 20, 2008 ^^subhnallah how can you professes to be muslim, and then use the term ‘wahhabi’ in flippant yet a malicious way…. especially when it is one of the beautiful names of Allah….. what is a wahhabi? nearly all the reverts keep their second name as it aint a name for them to be changing hence why Abu Khadijah’s first name is Bilal…..and not Phillips….. you say muslims should unite and you’re here making icky remarks about some….fear Allah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 20, 2008 Seek knowledge, you think only " wahabi Ulema" have written about Shias? Yes, indeed we do have country to think of, but the insults the wife of the Prophet Muhammad( saw), Abu Bakr, and Uthman concerns all the people of the Sunnah( Whether they are from Somalia, Sacudiya or Morroco), unless you only think "Wahabis" should warn people about these beliefs. As for unity, ask the Ahulul Sunnah of Iran whether or not they have been extended this hand of unity. Or better ask the Sunnis of Al Iraq whether or not they had a choice when the country was effectively turned into a Shia State! Lastly, it is Islamic custom for people to keep their surnames of their fathers and change their first names, for example, Suhaib Webb, Abdul Hakin Quick, etc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted April 20, 2008 Seekknowledge? What is Wahabi to you? and who said they are not part of the Ahlu Sunna, Fix up, anyway there is no Muslim sect called Wahabi, it's only a western term used to isolate those who are fighting against the Americans in Iraq from the rest of the Sunni Muslims, no such thing as Wahabisms exist... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seekknowledge Posted April 22, 2008 Wahabism exists and if you are denying it that means you are not conviced yourself of their ideology then why convince others? As per Iraq turned into a shia state then why is Sadr fighting your so called shia state. Wahabism existed for centuries and Americans invaded Iraq only recently. Wahhabis were killing ahlulsunna even before America was a nation. Shias have their own belief so do the wahhabis and both of them are not Ahlulsunna. To blame the Americans of inventing the term wahhabism is laughable. People like Mr. Philips are disuniting muslims more than any non muslim could. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 22, 2008 Mr Phillips is disuniting Muslims, ya? Akhi, do you believe your comments are disuniting Muslims? Anyway bro, your have gone into different territory, that is, your are attacking the messenger and not the message itself. Ulema have refuted twelvers and jafaris Shias way before Imam Abdul Wahab was born. Therefore, your attempts to dismiss this PDF as " wahabis creating disunity" are rather futile. If I post what the classical and major Ulema have said regarding this groups; what will your reply be?"Oh this Ulema are Wahabis". As for unity, again, all Muslims want to live in peace with each other, but anyone who curses the Wife of the Prophet( saw) as a slut, curses Umar and Abu Bakr and claims that they posses another Quran, the one of Fatima will be refuted by Ulema( as they have also done). Malik, the current puppet of Iraq was brought to power by the Shia alliance, which icluded Mr Sadr and their Ayatollah was crucial in changing the constitution to make Iraq an Islamic Republic, one run by Shias, although most of the population was not sectarian and coexisted peacefully. Now Sadr and the other Shias have fallen out with the Americans and themselves. Lastly, how does you qualify to be Ahlul Sunnah? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seekknowledge Posted April 22, 2008 Anyone who believes in Allah and the last Prophet (saw) is a muslim. The ones who killed the Prophet's grandson (saw) and the ones who curse some of the khalifas let Allah judge them. The four khalifas had major differences yet for the sake of unity he kept calm and swallowed his anger so the muslims could be united. We should also be doing the same thing. Shias and Wahhabis and Ahlulsunna are all brothers and they should respect their differences as did the khalifas. But if one sect tries to call the rest kafir then it is our duty to speak and stop them. We don't want to open the discussion of the mistakes that the Prophet's wife committed that is between her and Allah. She admitted of her mistakes and I hope Allah will accept her repentance. If anyone is calling her names again that will not take you out of Islam that would be committing a sin. Nobody said that you will become a kafir if you don't believe in the kalifate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Umm_Uthman Posted April 22, 2008 the fact that ur still using the term wahhabi is steering me to question ur character and intellect as a person... the same way it is easy for someone to enter the fold of islam…. it is just as easy for them to leave the fold of islam by a simple thing they say… shirk isn’t isolated to idol worshipping and what not... the term wahhabi was first adopted by kafrs and some ‘muslims’ who wanted to discredit Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab because he was an advocate for the return to the way of the salaf as saleeh… im not even gona give u an insight you can Google it and see what you find… the prophet said there will be 73 sect… deal with it… subhnallah @ da mistake the prophet wife committed….shia say she fornicated and allah sent down a surah to clear her… what r u on about… the way you talking is as though u are blindly following whatever ur on without the slightest inkling to learn…all im saying fear Allah… the worst of the people arent those who do something knowing its wrong but the those who do wrong thinking its right…cuz its harder for them to change… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seekknowledge Posted April 22, 2008 shia say she fornicated and allah sent down a surah to clear her Fear Allah do not slunder muslims. We might not like the way shias follow islam but that should not give as the right to slunder them. Do I like them cursing some of the sahabas? No I don't. Do I consider them muslims. Yes I do. Do you think Abdul Wahhab was following the only saved sect as you put it? The same way he thought he was following the saved sect so do all others. All I am saying is stop calling muslims kafirs. Let them practice what they want they way they see it and let Allah be the judge. As for the term Wahhabis, they used to call themselves at the beginning with this term changing later on to distance themselves after committing atrocities against the muslims in the holy land with the excuse of them becoming kafirs. As per your advice of google about this history then I advice you to also read the other side and be the judge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 23, 2008 As I said before: this thread isn't about Wahabis or Muslim unity. It's an intellectual/ academic paper on Shia( some) Beliefs and their contradiction to orthodox Islamic Beliefs. Ulema from way before Abdul Wahab have refuted these ideas as they are blatently contrary to Islam. Now, I don't think anyone can accuse these Ulema of being Wahabis or disuniting the Ummah. There are certain instances when Muslims unite and some differences are not brought out to the open for the sake of protecting the Ummah. Then there are certain times Ulema come out and refute certain practices/beliefs to protect the Ummah from believing that these are essentially Islamic Ideas. Imagine if Imam Ahmad would have kept silent and not refuted those people that said the Quran was created? The Ulema don't refute the ordinary people or the Muslim masses per se, rather the people, leaders and Imams who are propogating these beliefs and blatently trying to spread these Ideas to the Muslim world. Thus, as I said before: attack the message not the messenger! SeekNowledge, how is that one can promote unity and make deragatory digs at a Sheikh Bilal as to why he kept his non Muslim surname? What gives you the you right to say that " Wahabis" have their own beliefs and are not part Ahlul Sunnah, yet when Bilal Phillips criticises Shias, you say this is not good as it is disuniting the Ummah? Just look at some of the allegations you have made in your posts and then you say " fearl allah, don't slander Muslims". I don't particularly mind, so long as you provide Daleel for your allegations and don't complain when Shia Beliefs are criticised too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Umm_Uthman Posted April 23, 2008 hmmm.... what is slander.... i mean i stated a fact... that is what some shias believe hence why they even curse aisha (RA)in their du'aa...i dont get why u quoted me... but if ur talking about slander i did not say abdul wahhab was following the only saved sect nor did i say shias were kafr... i only stated what was FACT... that there are alot of things take someone out of the fold of islam... i suggest you read before you comment so emotively... i dont know why ur defending shias like you are when you so evidently dont have any knowledge concerning what they are on... there are some shia that are closer to ahulu sunnah but they are few and far between... and the majority of them have charateristics of kafir beliefs... (i still did not say they are kafr but that have the attibute)... as for the google bit i am alahumduillah open in seeking knowledge but i do not seek ignorance... i am content with the methodology with using the quraan and sunnah and not prone to bombarding myself with fabrications... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seekknowledge Posted April 24, 2008 Sorry I misunderstood your comment but Mr. Philips does say in some of his speeches that they are not muslims and that the rest of Ahlulsunna are misguided and that the Salafis (to be politically correct I will not use the term Wahhabi) are the only saved sect. If you guys don't believe that please accept my apology. I don't understand why some people have more animosity against their own muslim brothers than they have for non muslims. By the way I do have knowledge of the different shia sects as well as the differences within the Salafi ranks. There are also differences within the major four Ahlulsunna sects. I think we should be realistic here and face the reality that we have several different sects and we need to live in harmony and let Allah be the judge. That is all I am saying. Abu_Geeljire some ulemas are regarded highly by some sects while in other sects they are considered ignorant and vice versa. There is no need to promote one side only without writing about the other sides mistakes as well. There are several books written about the sect Mr. Philips follows by Ahlulsunna who condemn their ideology and there are still ulumas against them today. I am not saying these ulumas are right but the fact that there is opposition and the majority of ahlulsunna do not follow their ideology makes you wonder why are they suddenly writting more about dividing the muslims further.Is it because more people are going back to the Ahlulsunna way? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geel_jire Posted April 24, 2008 A question for Abu Geeljire and/or Umm_uthman ... there is a certain sect i believe they fall within ahlu sunnah but i cant recall their name .. some of their idea are so crazy im guessing even the shia do not make such claims ... if you could provide a little background on them and where they fall into and where they get their crazy ideas from. a very close friend of mine has been brainwashed by these people and some of the stuff he tells me just amazes me. some of their attributes: - they refuse to pray with anyone other than themselves. - they insist that everyone other than them are kufaar - they will not eat meat slaughtered by anyone but themselves - dumar la qabo ayay yidhaadeen meherkaagii hore sax ma ahayn oo markaas ayay 'guursadaa' arintaan ayaa iigu yaab badan but the only person i know and have been told that he has done this got shot for his trouble hada edeb ayuu yeeshay. sorry for hijacking the thread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabregas Posted April 24, 2008 ^^ Takfir Wal Hijra? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
