Hamas stands its ground: Analysis..

[General Duke]

^^^ Adeer it seems you dont understand much. First it was resistance or the intefada which brought the Palastinians what they have. Since 1967 the Israelis never even recognised a Palastinian state they refered to it as part of "Historic greater Israel". The Oslo accords aim was to quash the uprising which it acheived. While it gave the Palastinians some international coverage it did not end the occupation and hence even increased the illegal settlements on Palastinan land. Even Al-quds has been encircled by these settlements. Arafat was left as a nonity to whither away in his compund. Oslo was dead for some time. Then came the second intifada with greater human cost for both parties. And of course then we got the road map and quest for peace. When ever there is effective ressitance minds become concentrated. So both times Israel and its sponsors opened up was preceded by violent uprising.

 

Without resistance do you belive an individual like Sharon would have left Gaza? Your tone is some what defeatest. Remeber the Palstinians with no fault of their won lost 80% of historic palastine. Also remmeber that their internal resistance has given them a response to the power and unsettled both their arch foe and its main sponsor.

 

Now for recognition: This should be mutual dont you think? Israel and its sponsors should recognise and even compensate the Palastinian people and their rights. Who is the occupier? Who holds 10,000 Palastinians in their jails? Once the world embraces the truth then we wouls all overcome the illusion, that one can rob people specialy Arab Muslims of their rights.

 

The recognition will come when both parties are ready. Hamas is rightly not ready nor for that matter is Israel.

[Johnny B]

^^ Atheer , good luck with the second, third, fourth.../Nth intifada with greater human cost for both parties rhetoric untill you loose count.

 

We´ll see what a Hamas led Plastinian government can deliver, intifada-wise or military-wise.

[General Duke]

^^^ Again you seem to lose the plot. What has talks brought the Palastinians. Remember before the first intifada their historic leader Araft was exiled and their people humiliated.

 

Without the intefida no one would have even rememberd the Palastinian cause let alone their rights.

 

As for Hamas, why condemn them, when their people have chosen them or is your argument might is right? That Israel has a right to security and dignity and the Palastinians dont?

[Castro]

Originally posted by I P:

We´ll see what a Hamas led Plastinian government can deliver, intifada-wise or military-wise.

JBiyow (why IP?), saaxib hadaad dhimanaysana dhareerka waa layska duwa. If it's a matter of posture when death comes calling, the Palestinians ought to be standing rather than kneeling. Resistance, my friend, though seemingly futile, is the only way to peace. Forty (40) years of negotiations have brought nothing but indignity and humiliation. Hamas should just ignore the so-called quartet and get ready for a long war. I'm tired of this diplomacy crap where by the time the Palestinians are allowed at the table, they've conceded everything but their lives.

 

One thing that might actually be as bad as Hamas' win to the west and Israel is if Saeb Erakat defects and becomes member of Hamas. How's that for a united Palestinian front?

[General Duke]

One thing that might actually be as bad as Hamas' win to the west and Israel is if Saeb Erakat defects and becomes member of Hamas. How's that for a united Palestinian front?

That was funny.. Erekat was one of the first to concede defeat and congradulate Hamas. Alas some other Fatah members are not so gracious.

[Castro]

^ His speedy congrats speaks volumes, doesn't it? He may just be hedging his bets with Hamas. Think about it, he's a "respected" negotiator and a well known name in the entire world. He's soft spoken and very articulate. Hamas would do well by having him on board. Erakat, in turn, would find a good home in Hamas and distance himself from the stench of Fatah. What say you good General?

[Johnny B]

^ Castro, It´s not a matter of posturing when facing death , it´s a matter of preserving life.

 

A dead man has a dead dignity , i´ve always disliked the term " resistance" in the context of the Plastinian issue, few M16z or smuggled Klashinkovs plus a home-made granade launchers are not (have never been ) a risistance for the mighty Israeli army.

 

Atheer, the answer to the question " what negotiations or talking gave the Plastinians is the little they have today, while the answer to "what fighting (in all it´s forms ) gave the Plastinians" is NOTHING.

No single military victory.

 

Duke, abti, I´m not condemning Hamas, i´m actually glad that they showed fatah that corruption is self-defeating policy.

 

I´m beeing pragmatic yet keeping what i think the best for the Plastinians at heart.

[Castro]

If the Palestinians were the ones with aggressive demands, a massive army (with nukes), settlements strewn everywhere and the backing of the only super power left, they'd choose which government they would negotiate with. Alas, they don't. What they do have is the moral high ground (which means diddly by the way) and a legitimate claim to a contiguous land to call their own state. They're not getting it via negotiations. What then, good I P? Talk for the next 40 years and practice meditation in the meantime? Saaxib, at some point, one must re-evaluate the effectiveness of the strategy they're using. The former strategy is a failed one. The Palestianians are no better off than they were 10, 15 or even 20 years ago. In fact, they're worse off. Exactly what little are you speaking of? The 60% unemployment rate? The demolished homes and refugee rolls increasing by the day? Helicopter gunship "precision" assassinations? Which is it, saaxib?

[Gabbal]

I'm tired of this diplomacy crap where by the time the Palestinians are allowed at the table, they've conceded everything but their lives.

Comrade, you hit the nail on that one. I have watched so many Isrealis vs Palestinian debates in which Yassir Arafat was chastised and criticized for walking out of the Camp David during Clintin's mediation of him and Ehud Barak. What they implicitly tried to hide the truth from the viewers and audienaces was that Arafat was more then right in walking out! Yes, it was the first time since Rabin the Isrealis were willing to engage in constructive dialogue rather then Netanyahu's hardline rhetoric, but Arafat was still right for walking out. The Isrealis (with complete American support) brought out a map of an independent Palestinian state in which the land (essentially a soverign state!) was divided into quasi-states manned and controlled by Isreali miltiary personallel at various checkpoints. :eek: I was shocked when I looked at that map and saw the situation for how it was and compared it with how it was being protrayed as. Imagine British checkpoints on the border of all the fifty states of the (a sovereign!) United States of America. You tell me if the representatives of Uncle Sam would have taken that.

 

So, comrade, I do agree with you because that is absaloutely too much to concede. No person with a sense of dignity and an once of self-respect is going to appease their hunger for peace and self-governance for so low! Good on them and kudos to the Palestinian people. Ilaahay ha idin garab galo.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Kashanre:

quote: I'm tired of this diplomacy crap where by the time the Palestinians are allowed at the table, they've conceded everything but their lives.

Comrade, you hit the nail on that one. I have watched so many Isrealis vs Palestinian debates in which Yassir Arafat was chastised and criticized for walking out of the Camp David during Clintin's mediation of him and Ehud Barak. What they implicitly tried to hide the truth from the viewers and audienaces was that Arafat was more then right in walking out! Yes, it was the first time since Rabin the Isrealis were willing to engage in constructive dialogue rather then Netanyahu's hardline rhetoric, but Arafat was still right for walking out. The Isrealis (with complete American support) brought out a map of an independent Palestinian state in which the land (essentially a soverign state!) was divided into quasi-states manned and controlled by Isreali miltiary personallel at various checkpoints. :eek: I was shocked when I looked at that map and saw the situation for how it was and compared it with how it was being protrayed as. Imagine British checkpoints on the border of all the fifty states of the (a sovereign!) United States of America. You tell me if the representatives of Uncle Sam would have taken that.

 

So, comrade, I do agree with you because that is absaloutely too much to concede. No person with a sense of dignity and an once of self-respect is going to appease their hunger for peace and self-governance for so low! Good

on

them and kudos to the Palestinian people.

Ilaahay ha idin garab galo.

^^^

 

Ameen

 

I saw a documentary once and could not bare to watch how the Palestinian people were HUMILIATED on a DAILY Basis THROUGH numerous CHECKPOINTS, Harassement from the raeli army and so on...

In the middle of the day, there would be hundreds of Palestinians coming from work and they would be STOPPED by a soldier and his 'buddies' for no damn reason but to show of their POWER and HUMULIATE THEM.

Palestinians have been badly abused, badly abused, badly abused.

 

As for this victory,

 

The Palestinian people are going to get hit real hard with sanctions and will be put to more trails. It comes with the territory! It comes with the territory! If you want Economic Prosperity, you just need to concede to popular concessions that the G8 countries and EU offer.

 

Allahuma caziz al islam wal muslimoon waanasura huum calla cadoweeka!

[Castro]

Not only did Hamas' leader reject calls to disarm, he wants to create a Palestinian army that includes the Authority's security forces.

 

Said Mashaal at a press conference in Damascus: "as long as we are under occupation, then resistance is our right."

 

War ninku waa nin gob ehe, tol la'aan baa haysaa.

[General Duke]

^^^ Comrade, its funny how Somali politicians can learn from Hamas. They have offered the top post of PM, to a well respected outsider of the party..

 

ANALYSIS

Hamas proving it's politically shrewd

Matthew Kalman, Chronicle Foreign Service

 

Sunday, January 29, 2006

 

Ramallah, West Bank -- In the days since their upset victory in the Palestinian elections, Hamas leaders have demonstrated the political deftness that earned them the right to form the next government, while the long-dominant Fatah party foundered in disarray.

 

And as details emerged of the electoral mobilization that led to their success in Gaza and the West Bank on Wednesday, it appeared that Hamas had been honing its pragmatic political skills for months.

 

The first sign of Hamas' political savvy in victory was its reluctance to name one of its leaders as the next prime minister -- the natural step for any party winning a clear majority in a parliamentary election. Instead, it invited Fatah to join a coalition.

 

When that was rejected, Hamas made overtures to Salam Fayyad, the widely respected former Palestinian Authority finance minister, to fill the top spot. Fayyad, who ran for election on the independent Third Way slate, is reportedly considering the offer.

 

"We want a government that is for the Palestinian people, and if we can't do that, then there are many options -- one of which is a government of technocrats," said Ghazi Hamad, a newly elected Hamas parliament member.

[Yeniceri]

^^

 

Smart move. Keep the critics guessing.