Drugs, force and occupation.. [Abdiqasin]+ [Inda cade]+ [Xasan Dahir]

[General Duke]

^^^ Bashi, some good points, yet I disagree with your claims regarding both Abdiqasin and Inda Cade.

 

Abdiqasin, clan credentials are evident by the fact that he could never get major support from his wider clan. As he became President he surrounded himself with members of his sub-clan, from advisors to business personell, this included Xasan Dahir . He even allowed his sub-clan to do battle with other clans in the confederacy in the name of defending the President. An example of this is the bloody battles between his supporters and those of Aydeed Jr in the vicinity of the old port. His time in office was wasted on high rhetoric and lack of action. While he the money for the government went on strengthening his clans militia and business interests in Mogadishu. The creation of several now famous organisations highlighted the benefit the clan gained from his time in office.

 

His claims to being a nationalist are centred on the many years of loyal service he gave to Siyad Baree, 21 years in fact. He never questioned the Barre regime, as today he never questions the actions of his sub-clan. Thus being not only a clanist but a weak individual as well.

 

Another important pint is that Puntland never agreed with the outcome of the Arta conference. While individuals participated to the end, the delegation representing the state walked out. Thus while Abdullahi Yusuf nevr recognised the TFG of Arta and fought its influence on his area of influence. Abdiqasin took part in the Nairobi conference and even contested the election and then swore as did all the warlords that they would support the government of Abdullahi Yuusf.

 

So what we have is Abdiqasin going against what he publicly swore to support, and he cannot use as an excuse that Abdullahi derailed my government. Abdullahi in fact did this and did it openly because he never agreed to it. That he got away with it shows that there is a stark difference between the two men.

 

Inda Cade,

 

Is a man who claims to be a Shiekh, yet admits to not knowing the Quran. He was a street thug in Mogadishu who through hard work and connections elevated himself to Governor of the region. Only his clan have armed militia in the region. All the mayors of all the districts are from his sub clan, his income come from exporting charcoal, kickbacks from NGO’s and trading in Marijuana. He is the very example of what a Muslim leader should not be and stands on a par with the worst of warlords and criminal figures in our recent history.

[Baashi]

Il Generale, you are missing the big picture or so it seems. Granted Abdullahi has never endorsed Arta gathering let alone participated in its proceedings or for that matter agreeing with its outcome. That much is agreed. The question is why?

 

I think we are on the same page on all other points.

[General Duke]

Bashi, the why is complex, but I will have a go.

 

Initially Abdullahi was in favour of the Djabouti conference. Puntland, as you well know sent a delegation to the Arta conference led by Mohamed Abdi hashi.

 

However as time went thinks changed and Puntland complained that it was not being respected, as a building block and belived that its very existance was in question when the 4.5 formula was hatched. It was unlike the nairobi proceedings, not allowed to name the MP's coming from the state.

 

Ismael Omar Gulleh also bought the notion of the power of the clans of Migadishu. That Abadiqasin was a panacea to all the problems of the south.

 

Which played into the hands of Abdullahi Yusuf...

[Baashi]

Yes you are right on the money on the complexity of Somali politiking. The political equation that proceeded Arta’s conference is very complicated indeed as it is a multivariable in so many ways. However, it is overarching outlook is a trivial one. At it is core, the contest between the two clannish gurus was about who will have control over the number of delegates with actual votes.

 

With help of the host, A/Qaim outmaneuvered the strong man. Abdullahi vowed to boycott the outcome of the Arta gathering and even actively campaigned against TNG government that emerged from that conference. Ethiopia as expected came to the rescue.

 

As they say chickens come home to roost. The table has being turned against Abdullahi. He found himself walking on AbdiQasim's shoes. Today, Abdullahi is talking about the virtue of unity and the need of ending clannish feuds. Qasim loudly preached the same message in vain. Qanyare and Co. swapped roles and point finger at him about promises not kept and constitution not followed. Ethiopia is playing poker with both sides. La steza canta! Are you with me buddy?

 

Come to Nairobi gathering and Abdullahi had both the backing of regional powers and the control over the selection of delegates of his tribe’s slate. My point is very simple bro. Abdullahi is a one helluva clannish man. He has neither the interest of the Somali nation at heart nor the character of a unifying leader who can bring back Somalia that once existed.

[General Duke]

^^^ I respect your opinion, though I belive the two men in question are in two different leagues when it comes to leadership.

 

The Arta governemnt had one problem and that was Abdiqasin, he lacked the ability to negotiate with the warlords and the regional state and ended up just talking about Ethiopia till the end. This TFG while it has many faults is building its foundation.

 

I think this will have a lasting postaive legacy in compariosn to Arta which was all about press statements given in the Presidents Palace which happened to be Mr Boy's house.

 

Coming back to the topic, and an interesting point you made earlier. Can Abdiqasin and Xasan Dahir be taken seriously when they tunr a blind eye to what is happening in the lower Shabbele?

 

Or I, the UN and the rest of the Somali's are wrong and nothing is happening in those regoions?

[xiinfaniin]

Baashi, there is no point in General’s post. Your inference about the good Sheikh is not valid either. Sheikh Xasan is a leader of one of Mogadishu’s Islamic courts. He has been doing, and continues to do, what he could to lessen the impact of the failed state. He has no control what his sub-clan does. The charge that he is in cahoots with his sub-clan’s warlords is a weak one. His silence does not indicate a tacit agreement with the continuing subjugation of the natives of the south. It is all about priorities, saaxiib. One can’t accuse SH. Warsame of Burco or Sh. Mustafa for that matter being on the side of the separatist movement simply because they have yet to make bold pronouncements against it. I think it is a weak measurement. Practically it would not change any thing at all. One must not be a suspect of something for not speaking out against it. It could be helpful if he made such pronouncement, I agree. But he does not has to state the obvious, I insist, as there are countless cases in Mogadishu alone that need be resolved and pointed out.

 

Simply put, what the good General is trying to advance is a guilty by association charge. It is a clannish exercise that holds no water when examined. Mr Yusuf had a meeting with a junior thug in Nairobi. He has been trying to court him for a while but to no avail. To me there is no diffence between Mr Indha Cadde , the man whose conduct General Duke is quick to condemn, and the Mr. Hiiraale, the man who sits on the Kismayo loot. They both belong to an enterprise of looting, killing, and illegitimate conquest of fertile south. One is rewarded for his loot, and the other is isolated. One is actively sought and courted, and other is condemned and singled out, and subjected to a ceaseless disparage. Bal ka tali adeer. Now Mr. Yusuf hardly talks about the issue of Kismayo in particular and that of Shabeellooyinka in general. Are we to take his silence as an agreement? Maxaad ii keentay, yaa Generalle!

 

Midda kale every body knows that Indha Cadde has no scholarly standing. Why confuse people and call him sheikh then?

[codetalker]

^

 

Good points.

 

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

Also, to accuse Sheikh Aweys, like

you

and others have said, is ludicris.

Sxb, first of all, re-read what I wrote about Sh. Xasan D. Aweys in my 1st post. I didn't "accuse" him of anything - except that some of his practices [collabos with Indhacade, etc.] have created some "confusion" about his character, his political motives, policies etc.

 

Secondly, you freely acknowledge that Cabdiqassim Salaad created big warlords

like ina Seeraar, Indhocade and their minor cohorts such as Goobaale, Dhuxulow of Baraawe, the dude in Afgooye, etc. Yet, he's somehow innocent of their actions? How so? Like father, like son, as the saying goes. He is the Godfather of these drug/warlords.

 

If my belief that Cabdiqassim is "the mastermind" was based simply on "guilty by [clan] association," then I might as well be accusing their Ugaas in Guriceel of these terrible charges.

[Gabbal]

^Sxb I didn't accuse you of anything. Matter of fact Ireinforced what you and others have asserted in that accusing Sheikh Aweys is ludicris.

 

Cabdiqasim difaaci mayo, caynina mayo. Allahu tacaal waxuu sameeyo, tiisana wey soo mari doontaa.

 

To me there is no diffence between Mr Indha Cadde , the man whose conduct General Duke is quick to condemn, and the Mr. Hiiraale, the man who sits on the Kismayo loot. They both belong to an enterprise of looting, killing, and illegitimate conquest of fertile south. One is rewarded for his loot, and the other is isolated. One is actively sought and courted, and other is condemned and singled out

Adeerow runta hadaad rabti adaa tuug ah adaana xaaraan iyo aflagaado loo bahnayn meesha la fadhiya. Weligaana iska indha-tir waxaad doonti. Barre Hiiraale taa u kowdi u dagaaley xaq bay ahayd. He was fighting agression and as far as I am concerned Islam justifies fight against agression. Hatana kuwii fidnada wadi-jidhay oo isa soo badalay, dambigooday garteen oo khaladki bey fahmayn. Mid cuqdadlow ah yaan weli fahmin. Indha-cade waa nin is matala oo awalbo khalad meesha lagu fadhiisiyay. Barre Hiiraal se waa nin is mataline baahi iyo rabitaan umadeed matala. Fadhitaanku meesha fadhiya isaga uma fadhiyee, ummad buu u fadhiyay. Umaadaas aflagaadee hadaad wax aflagaadaynaysi.

 

Ta dambaan xasuusan, taa dambana waan ilaawi meelna kaama saarayso. Ta hore xasuuso shaar Diiniyan hadaad soo xiranaysid.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan....

 

Baashi, nice to see you again, widaaygiis.

 

One little correction, though. Indhamadoowe wasn't born in Marka nor any part of the entire Shabeelladda Hoose.

 

His family abaartii Dabadheer ayaa keentay, by the benefit of the regime, to Shabeelladda, particularly to Qoryooleey. He was a bus driver to and fro Qoryooleey and Muqdisho markee dowladda dhaceysay.

[Baashi]

MMA, I stand corrected.

 

Xiin, I must disagree with you on this one. From what I gather Dahir Aways is a leader and a scholar. His influence on legions of clan militia is public knowledge. He himself is a top brass military officer with the rank of colonel. In the past, he has taken part of the war between Ikhwaan and what Ikhwaan called at the time Thalimin on the side of Ikhwaan. Today he is an influential figure and his public pronouncements have a significant weight.

 

In my opinion, it is incumbent on him and all the leaders of his standing to speak up against oppression of innocent civilians. The criminal enterprise that’s operating in the south especially in the lower Shabelle and Juba regions are supported, aided, and abated by groups allied with the courts. Courts have yet to distance themselves from Indhocadde’s group. As far as I know he hasn’t make an effort to lessen the agony of Jiido and Cibilcad. An agony brought about by people who are very close to him.

 

Moreover, the foot soldiers of this criminal enterprise are from his sub-clan. These are the very people that rushed to his rescue in the last contest between courts and the warlord snitches in Mogadishu. It is more than practical for him to convene a grand meeting for his sub-clan and discuss the role his kinfolk have in the land confiscation in Lower Shabelle and Jubba regions. It looks like that there is a thin line between the warlordism and the Islamic courts in Mogadishu.

 

In principle I’m pretty much supportive of the idea of Islamist taking active role in the politics and asserting themselves in the affairs of the state. I believe they have done an impressive work in reviving civil institutions and done very well in the business sector. I also support the courts in the fight against the loose coalition of what I call assassins and snitches.

 

Given the courts role, however, in both Shabelle and Juba operations and their association with the clannish politicking on the side of one partisan group among many, I’m not sure if this is what Islamists are all about. It is very important for people in his position to distance themselves from the likes of Indhacade and make crystal clear that they condemn the oppression, looting, and killing of innocent Muslims.

[codetalker]

HORN -

 

My bad yo...I was the one who misread your comment.

 

Given the courts role, however, in both Shabelle and Juba operations and their

association

with the clannish politicking on the side of one partisan group among many, I’m not sure if this is what Islamists are all about. It is very important for people in his position to

distance themselves

from the likes of Indhacade and make crystal clear that they condemn the oppression, looting, and killing of innocent Muslims.

Exactly! These Courts have accomplished positives in Banadir region, which must be commended, but they also carry a hefty negative baggage in their personal ties to war/druglord Indhocade and the likes. My personal support in the Courts' growing influence lies in the fact that the Courts have successfully contained afdheer warlords such as Yalaxow and Qanyare. I remember only a few months ago, these cowards were running their lip about how they were the power in Muqdisho and how the TFG must work in Muqdisho, blah blah. Whatever happened to the isbaaro-removing attempt? Whatever happened to the militia collection bases at Laanta Buur and Hiilweyne camps?

 

As far as Indhocade goes, there's not a conflict in southern Somalia between clan-cousins in the past 5 years that he wasn't the 3rd party! Let's review:

 

1. Most recent Hiiraale v. Morgan (Indhocade attacks Morgan's militias, burns down Dhoobley)

2. Shaatigaduud v. Xaabsade (Indhocade enters Baydhabo, supports Xaabsade)

3. Bashir Raage v. Cadaani (Indhocade supports Cadaani, speaks at Ceelmacaan)

 

This guy is a disease and the really sickening part is that he continues to hide under the facade of "sheikh" when he is far removed from any such noble title. Strange, that the Courts' political talk calls the so-called "anti-terror alliance" as Isbahaysiga Sheydaanka, but, in reality, the Courts have the biggest Sheydaan in southern Somalia amongst their ranks.

[xiinfaniin]

Baashi, I am not that far from your stance. But to reproach him for not speaking out is a world away from accusing him to be part of conspiracy. The first is a concern we all share, to a different degree. The latter, however, is a hasty leap, which our good brother (General Duke) took, and hence, the difference. In the first case we are talking about what he failed to do, and not what he did. But in the General’s case, he wants to put the good sheikhs repute on trail for a mere hearsay, saaxiib.

 

HA, adeer cara dhawidaa! Waad iga qoslisay wallaahi. Barre waa stinking warlord in my book. If you want to argue against it, please do it with all of your aptitude. Anigese ha i caynin saaxiib .

[General Duke]

Up you go...

[MZanzi]

^^Bareejo miyaa?

[General Duke]

^^^No adeer this is the winning goal.