war of the camel

[FatB]

salamu calycum

 

 

there has been a question that has been bugging me resles the last cupple of days.....what was the relationship between Aisha (RC) and Ali (RC)?...did aisha support ali as a qalif or was there a camel war between them?....more over what is this "camel war"?

 

one more thing are there any reliable sourse dipicting the rule of the qalifa?...i would ask my local iimaan, but a new chinees arrivel speeks better english than him (no disrespect intended)

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by tHe oNe aNd OnLy:

what was the relationship between Aisha (RC) and Ali (RC)?...

 

 

Not friendly and filially unrelated if that is what you were asking.

 

 

did aisha support ali as a qalif or was there a camel war between them?.

 

 

No, she didn't support his selection (by muslim majority I think) as next Kaliph after the murder of Uthman. The Battle of the Camels or Jamal was Aisha instigated war against Ali and his forces. She lost.

 

 

more over what is this "camel war"?

 

 

It was a war commanded and fought by camels of both sides.

 

No, I think it was called battle of camels because Aisha was mounted on inordinately large, indomitable camel given to her as present by the ruler of Yemen. During the battle where ever her camel went saw the fiercest fighting. Once her camel was taken out, literally by removing his legs underneath him, the battle died down.

[FatB]

hmm asuming all that you say is true...lol...then what on gods earth did aisha have against ali?....it must have been big to hold such animosity against ali?

[Kashafa]

Waraa Urr-Badne, cut the crap aight, it's seeping out of your pores digitally. Thanks.

 

Abdul-Waaxid,

 

Wa Alaykuma Salaam,

 

After the murder of Caliph Uthman, Ali and Aisha had a difference of opinion on how to punish the killers. Ali, seeing how weak the Caliphate was, decided to return the lost authority and strength of Caliph office by securing pledges of allegiance(bay'ah) from the rest of the Muslim Ummah, then punish the people responsible for killing Uthman. Whereas Aisha and a few other prominent Sahabis wanted immediate punishment of all those responsible for the murder of Uthman. An unwise idea in Ali's mind because Uthman's killers had effective control of the capitol and everybody in it.

 

That difference of opinion led Aisha, Talha, and Zubair to recruit an army to go after Uthman's killers. Ali saw that as a serious mistake and and raised his own army to stop them. Keep in mind that while all this is going on, all parties involved had nothing but love for each other. They only differed on how to confront and resolve these new events(Uthman's murder, disobedience from some governors, etc) that would for the first time make two Muslims face each other with a sword.

 

This was no revolt or civil war in the traditional sense, but a sincere difference of opinion for the good of the Ummah. The battle itself was instigated by rogue elements on both sides that knew they were going to be brought to justice should peace take place. So they attacked each others camps simultaneously; both armies thought they were treacherously attacked and the battle was on. Muslim killing Muslim, and in many cases, family members fighting against each other.

 

If you're nice with the Arabix, I'd suggest Tariq Al-Suwaidan's audio series on the entire fitnah timeline. It breaks down everything from Uthman's murder all the way to Ibn Zubair's death and the Ummayad consolidation of power.

 

Be careful of what source you use to read up on this part of our history. Fabrications and false allegations are all over the place. So if you google: "Battle + Camel" and get this kharaabeet, you know whussup.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

Waraa Urr-Badne, cut the crap aight, it's seeping out of your pores digitally. Thanks.

[

 

Watch the language kiddo... we will not tolerate any name calling -- the Admin!

 

Heed the warning son.

 

 

Let me hastly parse this article... which pretty much agrees with me of course neglecting to mention some stuff.

 

 

Whereas Aisha and a few other prominent Sahabis wanted immediate punishment of all those responsible for the murder of Uthman.

 

 

I've heard this version and inclined to dismiss it as too wishy-washy. The truth prolly lies in between my account and this one. Mainly because its no major secret Aisha disliked Ali for previously accusing her of adultery. Which she was totally innocent of. Aisha and her half brothers weren't blood relatives of Uthman and yet they were more vocal in hankering for avenging Uthman's death than Uthaman's OWN blood relatives. That, on it's face, invoked suspicion of their motives and is what spurred Ali and his forces to gear up for battle.

 

 

that would for the first time make two Muslims face each other with a sword.

 

 

Wrong there ranger! Abu Bukr (the 1st Kaliphate) had to suppress a rebellion shortly into his rule. That was the first time muslims faced each other with a sword.

 

 

The battle itself was instigated by rogue elements on both sides that knew they were going to be brought to justice should peace take place.

 

 

I agree with that but it doesn't change the fact the Battle of the Camels or Jamals occured between forces allied to Ali and forces allied to Aisha. Or Aisha disliked Ali. Or the battle was named after the statuesque camel Aisha was mounted on.

[Nur]

Socod Badne

 

Answering to Kashafa you write:

 

 

Wrong there ranger! Abu Bukr (the 1st Kaliphate) had to suppress a rebellion shortly into his rule. That was the first time muslims faced each other with a sword.

 

 

Here you are wrong, the war was known as the Riddah war, or the apostate's war, unlike the War of the Camel of two equally pious sides both fighting for staying within the auspices of Islamic tenets, The Riddah ( Apostates) war represented a degenerate departure from basic pillars of Islam, and hence from its boundary, known as Murtadeen ( Apostates) up against the Muminiin Believers remaining under the commandments of Allah SWT on the other.

 

 

Kashaafa will you please prepare a good answer for TheOneAnd Only, I am sure that you are way capapble of this feat?

 

 

Nur

[Kashafa]

Brudda ***-Badne(notice the self-censorship),

 

Tell you what. You aim your misplaced sarcasm elsewhere, say towards the few flaming tribalists in the Politika section, and I'll be polite and civil. We might even become pen pals

 

You might think comments like this:

 

It was a war commanded and fought by camels of both sides

..are cute and endearing, but they're not. You do not discuss tragedies in a flippant tone.

 

Anyway, you're way above your head here, Homer. Either you pulled a quick Operation Google and you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're deliberately tryna mislead people with false facts.

 

Mainly because its no major secret Aisha disliked Ali for previously accusing her of adultery.

An outright lie. Where'd u get this from ? Ali never accused Aisha of anything anywhere anytime. The only people accusing Aisha of adultery were the Munafiqs(hypocrites) of Madinah, who were using it to attack the Prophet's stature. The Prophet held a meeting with his companions on how to handle the crisis. Some advised for him to keep her while others advised divorce to quell the scandal. Keep in mind this was before the Ayaat came down vindicating Aisha. Ali just so happened to be among those advising divorce to protect the Prophet.

 

Aisha and her half brothers weren't blood relatives of Uthman and yet they were more vocal in hankering for avenging Uthman's death than Uthaman's OWN blood relatives. That, on it's face, invoked suspicion of their motives and is what spurred Ali and his forces to gear up for battle.

The Caliph of the entire Muslim world is murdered in his own house while reading Qu'ran and the capital of the Ummah is under siege by a band of rebel cutthroats. You think this should only concern "Uthaman's OWN blood relatives" ? This was beyond personal politics and blood feuds, waryaa. This was about the future of the Muslim Ummah. The leading companions each thought of the best way to navigate through these tough times and they came to differing conclusions. Sa'ad bin Abi Waqaas, and many others, thought that this was the fitnah the Prophet warned about and decided to, per his instructions, stay home. Aisha, Talha, Zubair demanded immediate punishment for Uthman's killers. Ali, being elected Khalifa, wanted to stabilise the Caliphate first, and then punish the killers. His was the correct choice, which was acknowledged by all later on. The guiding factor through all of this was what was best for the Muslim Ummah and not the political soap opera you and other history revisionists so desperately try to portray.

 

Wrong there ranger! Abu Bukr (the 1st Kaliphate) had to suppress a rebellion shortly into his rule. That was the first time muslims faced each other with a sword.

Waraa ***-Badne, kaalay athiga dugsi class ma soo marin ? I mean this is basic Islamic history. The Arabs rebelled after the Prophet's death. Some claimed their own Prophets. If-Quraysh's-got-a-Prophet-so-can-we kinda thing. Some refused Salah and Zakat. Some just refused to pay zakat and would do everything else. What you need to get through that revisionist head of yours is that: These people were not muslim ! They were Murtads(Apostates) who rejected Islam because it conflicted with their desires. Abu Bakr unleashed a WMD called Khalid on them and they soon woke up re-embraced Islam.

 

My sources:

 

Ibn Katheer's Bidayah wal Nihayah

al-Mubarakpuri's Raheeq Al-Maktoon(Sealed Nectar)

 

Yours ?

[Johnny B]

It´s intresting topic , Ever since Ameenah hushed me, personally i´ve been wondering the significance of this so called war of camels to Islam in general and killing for ones belif in particular.

 

Though i realize and respect Nur and Khashafa´s sweeping of it as a simple disagreement (misunderstanding if u like )between two equally faithful, pious and equally correct people , namely Aisha and Ali.

 

What intrests me is neither Khashafa´s resorting to personal and charechter belitteling of SB, (that is a standard ) nor Nur´s "show´m boi" lofty attitude of justifying the killing and death of both the Army of Aisha and the army of Ali by other fellow Muslims. but the question of political Islam, where having faith and worshipping a Deity that cares about the well-beeing of Humanity is translated into killing human beeings in the name of the good.

 

More intresting is the low level of tolerance even among the belivers of the same Deity whose words and intentions are beeing interpreted so diffrently that a human beeing has to die.

It makes one wonder if that very Deity is intrested in defining itself better and clarify one or two ambiguous messages supposedly from that very Deity that cause a human beeing to kill another human beeing for supposedly beeing wrong.

[Nur]

JB

 

 

What is really interesting to know is your motivation in Islamic discussions in general and particularly in issues that have caused rift between Muslims, or potentially can in the present.

 

Let me ask you for the record, as a person who has no belief in Allah, or any other form of faith , what gives you the motivation or drive to dedicate your time so much to discredit everything Islamic or devine? I am sure that you can live more meaningful life without the trouble, and since you have no expectation of a life after death and hence no justice to expect, this life must be it, therefore, you must be getting a kick at chicks, chicks and chicks according to your published profile on this site, for that reason wouldnt it make sense for you to spend the rest of your life where they are plentyful and easy? unless of course you are getting them elsewhere and you are financing your lusts somehow by spreading ignorance on this site, which leaves me baffled as to who would pay you a salary for this dedication for decadence. For us Muslims, the motivation is a good life after death, we belive in a day of judgement and a justice for all matters worldly including the battle of teh camel, and that is the reason for our dedication without a pay. Can you say the same?

 

 

You see, JB, if you have given up hope on approaching your maker and are bent on denying His very existence, you must agree with me that life is quite short, thus its better spent surfing at the beach or other pleasant places instead of arguing on this site, ( I have yet to read a beneficial post of yours that helped a Nomad toward a wholesome life ) there, at places of lust you would be with people of like minds and interests, your remaining time in this life would be well spent there or any other similar places, so take my advice, dont be used doing the dirty work for others, use your time in a better way.

 

 

Nur

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Nur:

JB

 

 

What is really interesting to know is your motivation in Islamic discussions in general and particularly in issues that have caused rift between Muslims, or potentially can in the present.

 

Let me ask you for the record, as a person who has no belief in Allah, or any other form of faith , what gives you the motivation or drive to dedicate your time so much to discredit everything Islamic or devine? I am sure that you can live more meaningful life without the trouble

Spot on Nur - I've been wondering about this since shortly after I joined this forum :rolleyes:

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Nur:

JB

 

 

What is really interesting to know is your motivation in Islamic discussions in general and particularly in issues that have caused rift between Muslims, or potentially can in the present.

 

Let me ask you for the record, as a person who has no belief in Allah, or any other form of faith , what gives you the motivation or drive to dedicate your time so much to discredit everything Islamic or devine?

I am sure that you can live more meaningful life without the trouble, and since you have no expectation of a life after death and hence no justice to expect, this life must be it, therefore, you must be getting a kick at chicks, chicks and chicks according to your published profile on this site, for that reason wouldnt it make sense for you to spend the rest of your life where they are plentyful and easy? unless of course you are getting them elsewhere and you are financing your lusts somehow by spreading ignorance on this site, which leaves me baffled as to who would pay you a salary for this dedication for decadence. For us Muslims, the motivation is a good life after death, we belive in a day of judgement and a justice for all matters worldly including the battle of teh camel, and that is the reason for our dedication without a pay. Can you say the same?

Johnny Boy you had that coming....

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

...say towards the few flaming tribalists in the Politika section, and I'll be polite and civil. We might even become pen pals

 

Naah! Not while Pretzel Head Mods are still at the helm. Besides I need to get Baptized in Qabiilism... haven't had my apprenticeship yet, ya know like someone show me how to get my shine on, all this despite being beady eyed 65 yr old.

 

 

Where'd u get this from ? Ali never accused Aisha of anything anywhere anytime. The only people accusing Aisha of adultery were the Munafiqs(hypocrites) of Madinah, who were using it to attack the Prophet's stature.

 

 

I don't recall where I read 'cause it was so long ago but that is neither hither nor thither. It's common knowledge (I hope!) Ali refused to back Aisha, accused of adultery, in her plea of innocence and advised the prophet (scw) to divorce her. For that reason Aisha had understandable dislike or resenment for him ever since.

 

 

The Caliph of the entire Muslim world is murdered in his own house while reading Qu'ran and the capital of the Ummah is under siege by a band of rebel cutthroats. You think this should only concern "Uthaman's OWN blood relatives" ?

 

 

Listen, Aisha was a fallible being prone to making errors of judgement and her heedless decision to lead an army to Basra after cordial dissuasion by the bereaved immediate relatives of Uthman and her leader the Caliphate of the Ummah Ali (who sent his 2 sons Husyn and Hasan to protect Uthman!), raised alot of suspicions of her motives, foolish thing to do on her part not to leave out the casus belli of the whole Battle of Jamal. In a time when the political and military conditions of the nascent new Caliphate was fluid and highly charged set to go off at the slightest provocation, you must at least agree it was colossal mistake of Aisha and her half brothers to expose the underbelly -- political and military will and wherewithal -- of the young Caliphate Ali. Imagine if Ali lost, did you consider that?

 

 

The Arabs rebelled after the Prophet's death. Some claimed their own Prophets. If-Quraysh's-got-a-Prophet-so-can-we kinda thing. Some refused Salah and Zakat. Some just refused to pay zakat and would do everything else.

 

 

Most simply refused to pay Zakat to new elected Caliphate Abu Bakr not because they turned their back on Islam but they were under the impression that they had special pact with the prophet and once he passed away they were no longer bound by it. Admittedly others apostated.

 

The Riddah war was political war, not religious as some tendentiously glossy historical accountings claim. Abu Bakr had a major insurrection in his hand, he had to forcefully quell it and thereby prove himself capable and the Ummah viable. He did the right thing. But it was muslims fighting other muslims.

[Kashafa]

Dear Socod-Badne,

 

You are a joke, akhi. A cartoon of epic porportions. Why do I say that ? For two reasons: a) You continually talk out of your rear end(metaphorically of course, there's only one Ace Ventura) and think it's funny(it's not). b)You habitually disregard the truth, facts, or any semblance-of whenever it's convenient for you.

 

Take our little 'discussion' about the Battle of the Camel and the events leading up to it. You clearly admit to not knowing(you say remembering) what you're talking about. Yet you analyse it like you studied Islamic history in college. So you don't read(or you forgot what you 'read'), you have no sources to quote from, and you expect us to take you seriously ?? I mean, can you at least see where the clown image is coming from(besides your avatar).

 

You wanna be a comedian, fine by me. Take it to the Jokes section. But don't fabricate and revise the history of the men and women who lived and died fighting for this deen.

 

Finally, the Riddah wars were purely religious. These people renounced their Islam and went back to idol worship, in many cases claiming their own prophets. There's nothing political about that. Apostasy at it's best.

[Johnny B]

Sheikh Nur, i see you´re still revelling in your old theme of "concpiracy againt us" rhetoric.

 

If we shift the attention from the blurry, ambiguous and sometimes contradictory religious messages that you and few other self-proclaimed cyber-Mullahs pour in this forum, with which you unjustifiedly demand a position of distinction, respect and what not, and concentrate on what motivates ME.

 

Sheikh Nur, I´m a law-abiding citizen who makes decent life through a professional JOB, i´ve a wonderful life but since you are redundant regarding my profile , let me for the record assure you once and for good that i´ve a girl-freind that i´m satisfied with.

 

that i do disagree with your papal bulls every now and then shoulden´t bother you so much, beleive you me , sometimes i´ve had let you get away with plain rubish.

 

As you seem to understand very little (if anything) about natural Skepticism/Agnoticism/Atheism and Natural Theology , let me assure you my Sheikh that no one is more serious in finding God than a Skeptic/Agnotic/Atheistic person.

 

A pure and plain dedication to the TRUTH and unwaving cincerity are prerequisites for real knowledge, It´s too sad that you´re bilinded by negativity and " we against them" mentality that you even entertain the thought of me geeting paid by someone to just get to you and your imaginary camp.

 

more to come !!!

[xiinfaniin]

^^LOL@more to come.

 

Waryee JB; adeer you can't truly speed up wisdom acquistion, and you know that adeer .