Goodir Posted May 1, 2003 Whats going on guyz!!! Is it getting hot in here or was it just the Admin working hard! I must say Hadraawi was right on his point about the Somali unity. In no way that can a Somali man denies the unification of his people on this earth even those in Ethiopia (Ogadenia) and Kenya the ( NFD) wants, but the real questions is When, why and how. People need to know the reality and not believe and live on illusions. Nations were not only built by desire and patriotisms but also by law and order, respect and tolerance and most of all a government which works for benefit of the citizens and the country rather than the leaders, their families and related people. As far as Somaliland is concerned, they have produced an administration that brought peace, a system that works and maintained to bring back law and order after the collapse of 91 government, people can trade, learn and live there in peace, so far their administration is successful. On the other hand the South(Puntlanders u will excuse me I know u can argue of what I am about to say..but hey u r to be counted with the south) produced a system that allows the kidnapping, rape and never ending war, there are cities of ghost, day after a day the theory of warlordsim in the South is broadening, and not to forget the scrap merchants of those ghost cities. If two people wants to share business and have equal share they must pay equally.. so in this the South must work hard to get into the stage of the North to be able to unite with them. For this reasons in no doubt that can Somaliland unite with the rest of Somalia at this moment. Not much hard feelings and no offence intended Peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goodir Posted May 1, 2003 Sorry about the last bit For this reasons in no doubt that can Somaliland unite with the rest of Somalia at this moment. I meant: In no doubt that cannot somaliland be ready to unite with rest of Somalia at this moment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted May 1, 2003 If that news clip is authentic then I must say, as pro-unity nomad, Hadraawi is well positioned to advance this noble cause to a new level. Majdi, that is a very reasonable comment. The timing aspect of the re-unification is secondary concern. Technically Somalia of today is Somalia of yesterday; one country. Ending the secession drive and convincing pro-secessionist that this time we will get it right is the task at hand. More troubling concern is how you mediate warlords who have shown time and again their indifference to the plight of the nomads or the future of this poor country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LANDER Posted May 1, 2003 Well Said Majdi, Some people just don't understand that peace, stability and justice in their respective regions, comes before the mear MENTIONING of Unity. Baashi saids the timing is of secondary concern, but I say its not even a concern as things stand right now. We have people asking for peace and coming empty handed as they fail to provide that very peace and unity whitin their populations and regions. In other words, its like building a Building. Instead of starting from the ground up, Most pro-Unity people are arguing that we should start from the top down. Surely any logical person would understand the irationality in this argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted May 1, 2003 ^^No one argued in favor of ‘top down’ approach that you are alluded to as a pro-unity position. And no! I never said unity comes before stability...i don't see the need from your side to distort my position. Yes there is strong support for ‘building block’ approach which is basically the ‘bottom up’ approach. Look pal! it is perfectly ok to advocate for either position. I’m sure that there is a case for pro-secessionist to make just as there is one for those who oppose them. It will be very interesting if you can make the best case for the secessionist. It may change our entire outlook if it is very convincing, compelling, and rational one. I’m very cautious optimist and pragmatist as well. 12 years and counting South seems to resign and accept the anarchy and Northwest fail to attain recognition. Both preach patience. To paraphrase Rousseau the question is, what to make of a physician, who promises miracles, and whose art consists entirely of exhorting his sick patients to practice patience? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamiGyrl Posted May 2, 2003 Rome was not built in a day, and actually am glad that the world community has taken its time, because its making us stronger. Think about it, everyone was wondering if the elections were going to be fair and free, well we proved that they were, now the two main parties are arguing and they are not fighting it out in the streets, they are taking it to the supreme court. All this in a small un-recognized country, that has enemies at every corner??? Yes I think the more road blocks people or governments up up for us the greater the reward at the end of the tunnel. I see every block as another chance to not only blend our people together, but to make Somaliland stronger everytime. I really cant express what I feel. I was rather young when the United States went in to Moqadisho and seeing all the horrible things that went on there, I felt embarrassed to be a somali, I didnt know about Somaliland, but you bet your bottom dollar when I found out that it was love at first sight. I think Somaliland for all somalis especially the young is something to be proud of. I dont like the whole unity thing, I think the time has come and gone, proving time was along time ago. Lets just have peace. And many Somali countries we can be proud of, instead of just killing each other in one. -Citizen Sami Let the union go for God sakes. Proving time has come and gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LANDER Posted May 2, 2003 Sami good point about Rome not being built overnight. If we analyse history, there are many nation that took decades to find independence for example: Bosnia, Eritrea, East Timor, Croatia, Ukraine and even Poland (took centuries to gain recognized independence) etc….Poland is a great example because the polish people were always living in about the same region, but for centuries they were dominated by their more powerful European neighbours. Baashi no need to get emotional, instead you should try to keep track of your arguments. You say you agree with the building block approach that I suggested, but just what do you consider to be the building block? Is it Peace, justice and stability as I suggested? Or is it Unity first? If you say Unity, then its needless for me to repeat that it is an illogical argument as I explained in the previous post. But if you say peace, justice and stability then we agree that the other Somali regions have not yet achieved this status and therefore no need to consider or mention Unity yet as it is further up the scale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baashi Posted May 2, 2003 Baashi no need to get emotional, instead you should try to keep track of your arguments. You say you agree with the building block approach that I suggested, but just what do you consider to be the building block? LANDER, Where or when did I get emotional if I may ask? You are one of a kind dude . Indeed one should keep track of what one had said before and if memory doesn’t fail me I don’t remember contradicting myself on this issue. I’ve always maintained that ‘United Somalia’ with just and inclusive government is a goal worth seeking. You don’t share with that vision. I always acknowledge the difficulties and obstacles (namely negative tribalism and mistrust in any government among the nomads) we have to overcome to attain that goal. You use these very obstacles and deficulties as justification, among many, to secede. I do not attribute our problems with remarkable and historical union of the two region; you do pal! The fault lies on the negative tribalism, wrong governance system, and corrupt regime who put animosity between the clans and monopolized power by excluding many clans in the power sharing scheme. I’ve applauded the peace and stability both Puntland and Somaliland have achieved and wished others to follow suit. Anarchy is anarchy! It is like sheet of glass shattered into pieces. It will be very difficult to manage it without the right leadership. One can make comparisons between stable areas and unstable ones and ridicule the predicament some of the regions find in themselves or draw conclusions on that basis and find one more arsenal to justify one’s intention. ‘Building blocks’ approach, coined by Puntland, is mechanism where regions can have complete autonomy until national government comes into being. That option 'regional autonomy' is there for pro-secessionist to use it. But that is not what you are talking about. Am I right? Let alone this difficult time even if you had to do it all over again Somalia, as we know it, would not have been formed. Now we are a failed state and with that comes the eminence of local decision making. Yet you refuse to taste your own medicine; the right to secede. This is how it tastes: this newly find liberty will be excersiced by all sides within former Somaliland border. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamiGyrl Posted May 2, 2003 Bashi unlike you we welcome self determination for all Somalis. Even if they are within Somaliland, the question you should be asking yourself is are you sure that the majority of the people in certain areas really want to secede? Secondly, what can a greater somalia offer them now? I'll tell you what Abdullahi Yusuf and God knows how many other warlords. That wont let them vote or do anything else for that matter. But if they want to leave, they can and I welcome their choice, however, people are not stupid, people look for their best interest and right now Somaliland is the one for them, any which way you slice it. In the end Somaliland will I believe (Inshallah) get its well earned recognition. Maybe then the Somalia can get its act together. But really I am soo proud of all the Landers back home, everything they have built has made me soo proud. Thats what makes one strive for Somaliland because you see people that are actually trying. That you Landers for Somaliland, and for the peace, and stability, the respect for life, and self determination, most of all thank you for making young ones like me have something to be proud of, thats what being Somali is all about, not about unity that is empty, but true brotherhood and people actually pulling together making what the world thought would not survive thrive, no matter what tribe, thats what Somaliland is about. -Citizen Sami Let the Union go, the proving time has already past. Its a tale of a dead man, and one told by an idiot. Gone like him, into dust, stuck like him in the past. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gabbal Posted May 5, 2003 Now we are a failed state and with that comes the eminence of local decision making. Yet you refuse to taste your own medicine; the right to secede. This is how it tastes: this newly find liberty will be excersiced by all sides within former Somaliland border. -Baashi And many Somali countries we can be proud of, instead of just killing each other in one. -Samy_Gyrl Who sounds sane and is in the interest of the whole Somali nation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamiGyrl Posted May 5, 2003 HornAfrik If you want somali people to keep killing each other in Somalia, then go right ahead, if you want to build a gap between Somaliland and Somalia go right ahead, keep saying that Somaliland has no right to exist, but at the end of the day, every somali knows who upheld Somali brotherhood and who fell short. Good luck to you, but I will go my own way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gabbal Posted May 5, 2003 ********************************************** PLEASE STOP DISCUSSING TRIBAL ISSUES HERE. WE MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY MENTION OF A SOMALI QABIIL NAME ON OUR SITE. THERE ARE OTHER WEBSITES THAT ALLOW YOU TO HAVE THESE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS AND WE GLADLY ENCOURAGE YOU TO VISIT AND POST YOUR COMMENTS THERE. THIS IS A SERIOUR MATTER AND WE EXPECT ALL OF YOU TO RESPECT OUR RULES. IT IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU BROKE OUR RULES. ********************************************* ADMIN. [ May 05, 2003, 18:32: Message edited by: Admin ] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xassan Nasra Allah Posted May 5, 2003 It seems that the adage "Don't Argue with Fools" applies here. it angers me whenever i see Zealots that repeat the same lines , and outdated ideas about Habarkuuleey land. Baashi and Horn , please don't argue with these zealots , since no amount of reason can unlock their hardened minds. south this south that... only xamar is in turmoil, while mudug gedo and puntland are thriving. so don't make as if the whole country is aflame while Northwest is the island of peace. Whether you people like it or not, The status quo will remain and there will never be AN IMAGINARY LAND. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.O.R.F Posted May 5, 2003 round and round we go, the same ppl are for the same independence while the same others are for the same unification. new articles are produced just for the sake of argument, no matter how accurate and concise, but at what price, to get one over on the opposite side? PS, MAY 18TH, ENJOY MY FELLOW SOMALI------------LANDERS! PEACE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xassan Nasra Allah Posted May 5, 2003 Actually July 1,1960 is around the corner and its something , no matter where we are from can agree upon , dont you landers think so? JULY 1-1960 Endures and Prevails for ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
