Secessionists are not recognized and Somalia is not occupied.

[General Duke]

Adeer your attempt at drawing us “the bigger picture” was rendered a failure in part to you presenting no evidence of any kind to back up your arguments, just wild claims based on the new found Somali paranoia and the ever popular inferiority complex. We all must feel guilt at what happened to our nation over the past two decades, is a Somali failure and putting the blame on others is a weak excuse. The tragedy is that some want the mayhem to continue, the killings, the suicide bombings and so on to prove their point that this country can not become normal. I understand the secessionist but others I don’t understand nor care to waste time on.

To your question? I will address it soon insha Allah, give me a moment.

[General Duke]

A side question I have for you adeer: is there anything that you are willing to concede? Any thing that you think terribly went wrong from the tfg side or from the side of your helpers for that matter?

I would not use the term helper, it conjures up the idea that its all about charity when its more about mutual interest. Thus our ally or allies [Ethiopia, Uganda, US] should suffice in the future.

 

There have been mistakes,

1. In terms of security, the crackdown was started quite late, time was given to these groups to reorganize and continue with their usual action.

2. The supposed meetings with Ahmed Diriye groups was handled badly from a PR point of view, though insiders new the real deal the public should have been given the trut regarding these meetings, that in fact they were nothing more than this group being told to detest from their actions.

3. The TFG mishandled the evacuation of the city, they should have been clearer about their intentions with the public; though they tried it was not effective.

4. The TFG information outlets are still weak, thus giving the hearsay merchants far too much room to spread anti government propaganda.

5. The training and recruitment of officers across the country has not been effective and the episode in Kismayu has shown that more training is needed and more mixing of the forces rather than clan blocks within the army should be goal.

6. The incompetence within the TFG is something that I can not ignore nor would deny, for example the removal of Buuba from the foreign Ministry position while he was one of the most effective, loyal individuals within the cabinet was a grave mistake. The lack of transparency and accountability with regards to funds are more than mistakes.

[Castro]

Originally posted by The Duke:

3. The TFG mishandled the evacuation of the city, they should have been clearer about their intentions with the public; though they tried it was not effective.

That's putting it mildly. It was a catastrophe in fact.

 

4. The TFG information outlets are still weak, thus giving the hearsay merchants far too much room to spread anti government propaganda.

Is it not high time to hire qualified individuals from outside the circle of cousins, in laws, former cell mates and best friends?

 

 

5. The training and recruitment of officers across the country has not been effective and the episode in Kismayu has shown that more training is needed and more mixing of the forces rather than clan blocks within the army should be goal.

Why do you suppose that is? Why are young men not flocking to sign up to defend their cities and country and earn money to feed their families? Perhaps the recruitments ills have intrinsic issues needing resolution.

 

6. The incompetence within the TFG is something that I can not ignore nor would deny, for example the removal of Buuba from the foreign Ministry position while he was one of the most effective, loyal individuals within the cabinet was a grave mistake. The lack of transparency and accountability with regards to funds are more than mistakes.

Now you're talking. So what to do about the incompetence, nepotism and appalling lack of transparency? If the qualified are fired and more dimwits are hired, why blame the average Somali for his or her lack of support?

[General Duke]

One will take those suggestion into account, though most are nothing more than rantings.

 

The TFG will change but will not wither away.

[Castro]

"Rantings" but would still be taken into consideration? Ok.

[me]

Originally posted by me:

Ok now you all made you opening comments.

 

I would like to hear the core issues that needs to be addressed for you AS INDIVIDUALS for you to believe in any Somali government.

 

What are the issues that you believe are non-negotiable for you.

 

For me for example are the territorial integrity of the Somali Republic....just to name one.

 

Now speak as individuals, speak for yourself...as a Xiin, Sophist, Castro, Che, Centy, Farax.

Ok folks let me ask teh question again. What are your breaking points on the situation in Somalia.

 

Lets find out what we want the most and what our stances are...then we can look for a compromise.

 

So play by the rules please. Don't hide behind entities or groups, give me your personal opinions.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by The Duke:

There have been mistakes,

1. In terms of security, the crackdown was started quite late, time was given to these groups to reorganize and continue with their usual action.

2. The supposed meetings with Ahmed Diriye groups was handled badly from a PR point of view, though insiders new the real deal the public should have been given the trut regarding these meetings, that in fact they were nothing more than this group being told to detest from their actions.

3. The TFG mishandled the evacuation of the city, they should have been clearer about their intentions with the public; though they tried it was not effective.

4. The TFG information outlets are still weak, thus giving the hearsay merchants far too much room to spread anti government propaganda.

5. The training and recruitment of officers across the country has not been effective and the episode in Kismayu has shown that more training is needed and more mixing of the forces rather than clan blocks within the army should be goal.

6. The incompetence within the TFG is something that I can not ignore nor would deny, for example the removal of Buuba from the foreign Ministry position while he was one of the most effective, loyal individuals within the cabinet was a grave mistake. The lack of transparency and accountability with regards to funds are more than mistakes.

Duke as ever is getting defensive and is not willing to concede much at all. With all fairness take away 5 and 6, and you are left with grievances about the tactical moves tfg adopted in this war. The fundamental failures are either deliberately ignored or incompetently neglected. No word on the return of the warlords, no word on the compromise on their sovereignty in allowing Ethiopians to mass arrest persons it said were of interest to them, no word on the obvious lack of strategy as to how to move forward, even if the people were willing to tolerate them as a transitional entity, and above all no word about the utter failure of losing the regional game (if one assumes tfg understood the game that’s being played here) and completely relying on Ethiopia’s commitment to rescue them from the current insecurity. Thusly your efforts, though admirable in principle, are clearly hindered by the inherent biases you have toward the success of the tfg. No matter.

 

Let me though concede a one point to you and tell you some thing you would like to hear: tfg is the strongest entity on the Somali soil amongst Somalis today given the help it gets from the foreign powers that support it. But that (and I am not taking that concession back, just commenting it ) yaa Duke is neither here nor there as Somalia’s problems are political in nature. If all Somalia needed were a military solution (locally organized or otherwise), Aydiid Sr. would have been the president of the Somali republic as he admittedly out-muscled all most everyone that stood in his way. So seeking military solution to a political problem is akin to repeating the mistakes our former strongmen made before it, and that, in a more basic way, is the mark of this entity’s failure. Of course, and in the big scheme of things, trusting a country whose strategic interest in the region is diametrically opposed to ours with the cardinal function of bringing stability and security is the most flamboyant trademark tfg posted…

[xiinfaniin]

Me,

 

Here are my breaking points (not really points ) :

 

Somalis has been fighting for 16 years. The civil war has caused a lot of sufferings. Apparently one group got the upper hand and utterly abused it. The heinous crimes they committed have no parallel even with current Ethiopian shelling. But all that was primarily internal fighting and however it seemed hopeless and gloomy, the criterion for peace was quite agreeable. It was as simple as this: hold reconciliation conference, address illegal grab of land and properties, come up with just framework for power sharing, and form a temporary body that governs in the transitional period. Easily said than done but I dare say that was the bulk of what needed done to arrive a permanent peace. Now our current problem consists not only our previous elements of contention but it also seems that a major rework has been done to it and it got altered fundamentally as a new element got introduced to compound the difficulty of solving it. The Alqacida card and the sanctioned foreign factor are the two new variables in the Somali equation.

 

How to solve it is equally complex and requires cool heads with exponential thinking ability. The sequences are very important here. With all the current issues, two stand taller than the rest; legitimacy and security. How do you go about it then? Tackle those two first and then you have a chance of engaging the reconciliation task. I don’t have the silver bullet, as it were, but I think in the interim, and with Ethiopia out, peace is only possible if Somali question is taken up comprehensively. We need to shun from this piecemeal approach foreign powers prescribed to us. Somaliland and Puntland must be part of the effort of reviving Somali state. That would inject new dynamics and perhaps change the nature of politicking in the south.

 

Do the tfg supporters share that opproach ?

[General Duke]

Xiin, you asked me for my opinion regarding mistakes that have been made. I gave you what to me were the gravest mistakes.

Again you are trying to score points which I find rather amusing and quite absurd.

Yet to counter a few claims you made, the classic one about no military solution, I agree strength of clan or muscle even if outsourced wont solve much.

However as you know but will loath to admit the TFG charter, Parliament and executive came through a long drawn out political process, in which all players Arab backed, Western backed and so on discussed, debated, even had a fist fight to create this transitional institution. No one clan or group was missing even the courts preeminent leader Abdiqasin took part in the elections and lost. Thus the political foundations are solid, the TFG was two years old before it ever moved in an offensive direction against any of the armed groups who wanted to derail the process as they have done so before on many occasions.

The fact that this government fought back and successfully so is what seems to alarm most pundits, it was not suppose to be like this. The Clan Courts should have won?

Now the fact of the matter is that the most comprehensive peace process that in Nairobi produced this government which has gained the support of the international community which led to the defeat of most armed groups.

 

There needs to be some reflections, evaluation, changes and there will be an opportunity for these to take place in the coming national conference as well as the 2009 national elections insha Allah

[General Duke]

Xiin, the major war stated in Mogadishu with the demise of central governance, it ended with Mogadishu and the rise of central governance.

 

Take Lower Shabbele, a success story of you ask any local of that region.

[xiinfaniin]

^^ You are a tough nut to crack---that much I admit. But your attempt to capture us and obscure the reality on the ground, not with logic and sound argument, but with a mere noise (though this one was quite friendly) is just not going to cut it. I know putting tfg on the hot seat and discussing its clausal failures is indeed a score point with you but that you loudly said so is what’s unDukish here.

[RedSea]

If someone has no shame and distorting everything, I think it would be hard for any to argue against he/she just because they will not take any points in nor will they process anything logical. The Simple case with Duke.

 

How the TFG started and what it has become are very different.

 

The TFG started just like any other numerous past somali reconciliation to create transitional government. However it has become the hated transitional government, because it has more connections with foreigners and the few stooges that headed have shown that they are not really here to serve anyone but grap power by the horn through using foreign powers to fight for them and in exachange be under their complete influence. That is not respectable government if you ask anyone. A respectable entity should be hearing the voices of its own people, it should be working to gain the trust of its own people, much like the UIC did, rather than dragging armies from neighboring country to slaughtered their people in order to bring them to submission and in order to recongise the existance of a 'government'. That is what we have problem not the actual foundation of the TFG.

[General Duke]

Xiin

 

On the contrary those who know me understand that I am a reasonable person, logic and sound argument are those I admire in politics. I must admit I find it quite annoying when those who present themselves as reasonable are unable to reason with others. I presented fact after fact that this process took more than four years, from an all inclusive two year long reconciliation conference. The lifting of the arms embargo, the parliament vote to allow any country in an emergency including Ethiopia. To the involvement of Eritrea, Ormo groups as well as terror networks in the propping up of the anti government groups. To their defeat politically and militarily.

 

You on the other hand were quite a disappointment, your arguments hollow and without much verve. They seem to be no more than what one hears from elderly female relations of mine whose sole reference seems to be what they heard from other old neighbor of theirs. Baseless arguments masked with long waffle, though you are the finest of the lott here without exception.

 

Again, the process was long, legal and necessary to cripple the Asmara group and dash dirty mud on the hopes of the secessionists and the looters Inc groups.

 

Today the anti government groups are being hunted, their terror networks being dismantled, their media outlets suffocated.

 

Today you have locals in every region enjoying self rule for the first time, I present the case of Lower Shabbele as a success story, what do you people present Xasan Dahir and Ahmed Diriye’s clan concerns?

[General Duke]

The anti-governemnt groups have created an alliance in Asmara. This alliance highlights the fact that this group was never a home grown affair but based on the wishes of Asmara to score points against its rival.

[General Duke]

Faalo: WAA FAKTAY WAA FIYOOWYAHOO… GEEDDI FIISHADIYOOW FADHAA. (Laba Shariif Hal Waa Shabaab Halna Sheydaamankoow Shirshaa)

10. June 2007

 

Muqdisho:-Tan iyo xiligii dhidibada loo taagay dowladda Federaalka KMG waxay ka fuqday oo soo dhoweeyay Soomaalida nabada jecel marka laga reebo kuwo yar oo diidan in dalku yeesho nidaam, sharci, kala danbeyn iyo xisaabtan, waayo kuwaasi waxaa u dan ah dilka, fowdada iyo nidaam la’aan.

 

Marka xiligan sidow xaalka yahay la fiiriyo balaayo kama horeyn 15/9/2004 saqdii dhexe ee habeenimo oo ku beegneyd doorashadii guddoomiyihii Baarlamaanka Shariif Xasan Sh. Aadan oo iminka ka mid ah koox yar oo isu dhiibtay xukuumadda Asmara ee Isaias Afewerki oo isagu caddeystay cadaawada uu u qabo dowlad ka dhalata Soomaaliya, waayo hadey Soomaalidu toosto oo Itoobiya degto wuxuu ka baqayaa in geeridii galbeed laga sheeko uu gundahiisa ka fisho ileyn abaal uma erganee.

 

Madaxweyne Cabdullaahi Yuusuf, Ra’iisul Wasaare Geeddi iyo madaxda IGAD waxay dadaal u galeen oo hadba shir dib u heshiisiin oo xukuumadda dhexdeeda ah loo fariistaba waxaa loo taag waayay in Shariif Xasan iyo inyar oo ku fikir ah loo taag waayay Shariif Xasan iyo inyar oo ku fikir ah ay yeelaan tallada inta badan taasoo keentay in 17/1/2007 ay cod aqlabiyad dhan 183 xildhibaan u coddeeyeen in xilka laga xayuubiyo halka 9 ay diideen kaasoo kooramka ka dhigeysay 192 xildhibaan oo noqonaya nidaam sax ah.

 

31/1/2007 markii Sheekh Aadan Madoobe loo doortay Guddoomiyaha Baarlamaanka xubnihii xukuumadda u kala baxeen in badan oo muwaadiniin dalkooda jooga ah iyo inyar oo mucaarad dibad joog ah, balse Ra’iisul Wasaare Geeddi xiligaas kadib wuxuu xil ka qaadis ku sameeyay xubnihii howshooda gudan waayay kuwaasoo boosaskoodii ay buuxiyeen mas’uuliyiin damiir wadaninimo leh (LABA SHARIIF HAL WAA SHABAAB HALNA SHEYDAAMANKOOW SHIRSHAA), bal u fiirso hadaladooda, “Dalka iyo dadka waa lagu soo duulay, xorna ma ahan marka inta dalka uu ka huroobayo dibadaha ayaan iska joogeynaa, aalamkana waan u sheegeynaa in nala haysto”.

 

“Dalka iyo Diinta waxaa weerar qaawan ku soo qaaday caddowgii soo jireenka ahaa ee Itoobiya, qofkastana waa ku waajib iney difaacdo inta laga gaarayana dibada ayaan ku sugnaaneynaa” ayey kaga dhegtay labada Shariif.

 

Markii si buuxda ay dowladda ula wareegtay gacan ku heynta dalka waxaa bilowday weeraro gaadmo ah, dilal qorsheysan iyo qaraxyo lala beegsanayo goobo iyo mas’uuliyiin muhiim ah kuwaasoo madaxda dowladda Federaalka ay ku eedeeyaan iney ka danbeeyaan haraadigii Maxaakiimta iyo kooxo argagixiso ah oo xiriir la leh Al-Qaacida!.

 

Aragtida Soomaalida ayaa kala noqotay kuwo dibad joogayaal ah oo la baxay magacyo kala duwan gaar ahaan dalalka Yurub sida Britain ay 20 qofood isugu soo baxaan dariiqada Londan lagu sheego in 600 qofood oo Soomaali ah ay bannaanbaxeen ayna aaminsan yihiin in dalka la heysto, kuwaasoo ka badin waayay abaabulida bannaabaxyo iyo borobogaando laga baahiyo qeybo ka tirsan warbaahinta oo kooxahaasi taageero isla markaana iska indha tirayo dadaalka iyo waxqabadka Madaxda dowladda gaar ahaan kuwa gobolka Banaadir oo ku guuleystay iney soo celiyaan bilicdii magaalada oo xitaa ka wanaagsanaato xiligii Maxaakiimta sida nidaaminta Suuqa Bakaaraha, Kaaraan, Suuq Bacaad, Siinaay, Sanca iyo dhamaan goobaha sharci darada lagu deganaa 17-kii sano ee la soo dhaafay, iyadoo dadweynuhu isku xil qaameen iney iyagu wax qabsadaan Tusaale (qashinkii dhulka daadsanaay waa la daad gureeyee, daa’inkey ha daayee Dumarkaa ku dadaaleen) ayey ku heeseen haweenka Banaadiriga oo ku howlgalayey iskaa wax u qabso ka socotay degmada Xamar Weyne.

 

Qeybta kale waa kuwo taageersan waxqabadka dowladda oo jecel in laga gudbo fowdada iyo fashilinta maamulkii la sameeyaba tusaale ahaan qorshihii u danbeeyay 3-dii bishan ayey aheyd markii gaari laga soo buuxiyay waxyaabaha qarxa ganjeelka gurigiisa ay ugu geliyeen kooxo naftooda huray taasoo ka dhigeysa markii afaraad ee weerar toos ah lagu qaado Ra’iisul Wasaare Geeddi.