Secessionists are not recognized and Somalia is not occupied.

[me]

I agree with that, but we are playing the same old bandow game.

 

Everyone that doesn't get his way will spoil it for everyone else. We all see whats happening only those deluding themselves don't see whats up.

 

So recognizing the situation is not the issue, the solution to our problem, where we want to head, what future we want for our nation and our country is where we are in conflict about.

 

So again I agree with you that all of Somalia is under occupation today. Now what?

 

Sophist, join the debate.

Xiin

Horn

Che

Badacase

everyone else

 

you are all more them welcome to share your lama taano.

[Emperor]

A chalenge will remain to be a chalenge unless logic is used to solve the puzzle, to resolve this long standing problem need thorough investigation and clear outlook, that needs to come from every Somali soul sincerely, one needs to look at the mirror and start making a change, a careful change while still looking at the mirror observing movements and rectifying the small slip mistakes while he/she can...

 

All I can see and sense in this boards are signs that led to the Somali saga and that informidable Style of thinking, self pride/rightousness stubborn hard brain like a rock, selfishness and opportunistic measures. For I have yet to see anyone change his views on any group he supported before, whether you discuss, depate, present facts or evidence matters less, no matter what nothing fruitful will be expected.... a roundout that has no exit... how do u get out then? I don't now don't ask me, Ofcourse Im included in this but this doesn't mean Im, was or have been wrong in any form or shape..

 

I see some employ the term all to mean only them and themselves alone.

[Sophist]

We need to save the country; the way some think they can help our people is laughable to say the least. It is shameful not to mention foolish for young men and women to blow themselves in the name of patrioism.

 

Aloow noo gargaar!.

[Che -Guevara]

^^^What do you think is the way out of this nightmare?

 

 

Me....Qof dantiisa yaqaan lalatashan karaa. Umadeena wax dan ah garan meeso.

[Sophist]

Che

 

I think this is a complex matter that needs a serious thought to be put into it. I am afraid, due to lack of time (I am at work and unfortunately I am not accountant ) It will have to wait till the weekend.

 

It would be interesting to see what others think of it-- there is alot of emotions flying around the forum of late; I am looking forward to a measured solution to this knotty situation.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by Sophist:

We need to save the country; the way some think they can help our people is laughable to say the least. It is shameful not to mention foolish for young men and women to blow themselves in the name of patrioism.

 

Aloow noo gargaar!.

There some on the ground who beleive this is the right way to save the country.

[Centurion]

The key issue is trust.

 

Until the majority of Somalis can trust a 'government' of any part of Somalia, nothing will change, since there is no unanimous body representing a majority.

Any such entity must firstly be worthy of the precious little trust we Somalis have to give.

 

The ICU was riding on the crest of the people's discontent, but they have crashed rather abruptly due partly to their own political mistakes but also as a result of the machinations of the enemies of peace in Somalia.

 

A trusted government will have the support of the people, which will allow them to revive the state of Somalia, and in time the other problems like this forlorn secessionist movement will be addressed.

 

 

Until we can form a real unbiased and competent government, different groups will continue to take advantage of the anarchy, be they foreign fundamentalists, Ethiopian minions or calooshood u shaqeesteyaal. Whilst millions continue to waste away in the no-mans land that is our country, whilst millions of Diaspora kids gradually lose all traces of their culture, religion and language.

[Faarax-Brawn]

The key issue is trust

The trust was lost when a bunch of crooks handed that key to an enemy. And as long as they & their supporters are claiming that enemy is a loving brother,NOTHING will be solved!!

[Sophist]

Faarax: I am sure they are; but this is not politically savy not to mention take one's life being Haraam!

[Centurion]

And as long as they & their supporters are claiming that enemy is a loving brother,NOTHING will be solved!!

 

Of course, and that is why this regime is doomed to failure sooner or later.

[me]

Ok now you all made you opening comments.

 

I would like to hear the core issues that needs to be addressed for you AS INDIVIDUALS for you to believe in any Somali government.

 

What are the issues that you believe are non-negotiable for you.

 

For me for example are the territorial integrity of the Somali Republic....just to name one.

 

Now speak as individuals, speak for yourself...as a Xiin, Sophist, Castro, Che, Centy, Farax.

[xiinfaniin]

Those who are doing the ismaadimis thing are misguided shabaabs (and yes there are always those who are incline to operate from the extreme edges of our faith) and the only way to bring them into the mainstream fold is to firstly remove Ethiopia’s military presence from our soil. Only then can we genuinely talk about marginalizing these folks who tend to insist on trivial matters when in peace, and resort to excessive, and at times mindless, tactics when in war. Lets not mince words here; the phenomenon of suicide bombardment as a conventional tactic to fight your enemy is quite atrocious as a method. It’s also objectionable on many grounds, especially when it’s used as liberal as it appears to be developing in Somalia.

 

^^But that’s a challenge for another day…now it’s the combination of lack of progress on the process of reconciling Somalis, and the ever-growing clout our archenemy has on our affairs that’s getting to me!

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by Sophist:

Faarax: I am sure they are; but this is not politically savy not to mention take once life being Haraam!

Well, the enemy didn’t approach the people in a savy way,Matter of fact that enemy brutally killed & displaced the masses.

 

Furthermore,this enemy is not interested and doesn’t even recognise this group as a political entity, they are reffered to as Terrorists.

 

Looks like its an all out assault on commonsense adeer.

[General Duke]

I would like to make it clear the Duke will not be able to respond to every comment or statement and will address those who’s comments are worth merit.

 

Lets start with Xiin,

 

An absolute disappointment is how I categorize my feeling towards that last post of his.

No single fact, no shred of evidence not even a single reference just old Xiin rearranging his prejudices. The “Starbucks analysis” of the layman is coming to the fore, with the CIA, now running the show instead of the usual suspects Ethiopia who are now relegated to a mere Sharif in the Horn. The lack of understanding of the matter is further illustrated when the brother excludes the involvement of foreign elements in the game, the terror netweorks the Oromo liberation front and more importantly Eritrea as the magnet that drew the Ethiopian army into Somalia. Of course this will be played down by those who advocate the “occupation of Somalia” as their single sole remaining life line in politics. However why are all the “opposition groups” including all the main leaders of the courts hiding out in Asmara? Why not Egypt, or Djibouti why would Asmara take such risks for a group it has no interest with?

 

The answer is simple Asmara put allot of effort, money and political clout behind this group, it trained, funded and now gives shelter to this group as well as other rebel groups against Ethiopia. Thus Asmara led by Christian Aferwarki has been using the “religious warriors of Somalia” as his latest weapon against the bitter foe Addis-Ababa. Thus Xasan Dahir and other heroes were no more than recruitment seargents, using innocent Somali blood to settle the score of others.

 

The Somali’s never understood how threatened the regime in Addis felt towards this group and that Addis choose to support the TFG was due not to love of it, or that it controled it, but because it was the best route for them to cripple Asmara’s by taking out their new agents in Mogadishu.

 

Its not an occupation, but an action to prevent one’s enemies from gaining more ground and further isolating the regime that one is in direct conflict with. The Somali government wins due to the fact that its interest of destroying its rival armed groups are parallel with the interest of Ethiopia, i.e. isolate Eritrea and that of the US, hunt those it was looking for in the region.

 

Another point is the internationalization of the issue, with the AU troops coming to replace the Ethiopians and the fact that Ethiopia is supportive of this and has played a vanguard role in pushing other AU countries to send and the support the mission. If it wants to occupy Somalia, why support the international community’s effort, should it not like Israel choose never to have any UN, or regional forces in the country?

 

One must not speak of criminal action and then support a clan movement which occupied, killed and maimed thousands of Somalis’ through out the last 16 years. This group introduces suicide bombings, assassination of retired officers and the brainwashing of child soldiers into suicide missions which the leaders fled at the first sound of the gun.

 

The criminals are those who do not want the third republic to return, but to keep Somalia hostage under the banner of clan, pseudo religion and fighting for the interest of others.

 

Summary:

There is no occupation; a limited military presence is the reality. The whole project has the support of the international community led by the security council of the UN. There is an international force with the Ethiopians, Ugandans and the US involved and the other AU troops are coming to be replaced by UN troops.

The project also has the support of the Parliament, cabinet and President of the republic of Somalia.

 

These troops are here to help root out the criminal gangs, terror networks and criminal foreign elements that have high jacked Somalia, printing money and dabbling in drugs.

They will help a train a new generation of Somali armed forces, who will take over the responsibility of security in the near future.

 

Viva the third Republic of Somalia

[xiinfaniin]

^^I was trying to depict the big picture lest we get lost in the gloom details of our sad situation. I wanted you and others who genuinely support this tfg thing to take two steps back and observe how Somali matters are playing out in the context of the current regional politics of fighting terror and what not. Obviously you refused to do so. You want to bury your head in the sand. No matter. We have been there before so lets not flog this dead horse even further. It’s really meaningless.

 

A side question I have for you adeer: is there anything that you are willing to concede? Any thing that you think terribly went wrong from the tfg side or from the side of your helpers for that matter?