Saudi Mufti issues fatwa calling people to inform on militants

[Conscious Manipulation]

asalaamu alaykum,

 

Interesting turn of events.

 

TruthSeeker , I'm sure you're well aware of the historical affliation between the salafiyah movement and the house of Saud. Mainstream followers will always be loyal to the kingdom no matter what you or anyone else says. This is something you're just going to have to learn to live with.

 

Salafi online , as the veil of deceit wears thin and as ordinary Muslims become more and more aware of what is Islamic and what isn't, anything that comes from the treacherous rulers of the kingdom and their "Ministries of Religious Affairs" will be subject to question and suspicion. In other words, not everyone is a fan and this is something you'll have to learn to live with.

 

OG_Girl and Sahal, u guys lost me? What exactly r u arguging about? :confused:

 

salaam

[NGONGE]

I’ve got to admit that in this particular debate I seem to be leaning towards Salafi’s side (if only he’ll cut down on the anger – not for the sake of his adversary but rather for the sake of his audience).

[Truth Seeker]

Why?

[NGONGE]

^^ Why am I leaning to his side or why I’d want him to cut down on the rage?

Not sure what you’re question is, brother!

 

I find myself agreeing with him because he seems to back his arguments up with sound evidence while yours, without wanting to sound patronising or anything, are meagre opinions with no back up at all.

 

Not wanting him to display his anger and disgust (I’ve noticed that he’s very short tempered) needs no explanation. But, what the hell, I’m going to lecture away anyway. What he forgets when he’s arguing with someone on this site, that this argument is not a one-to-one type of argument, there are others reading and watching these exchanges. Others that might not be on the same level of understanding and knowledge as he is (I believe I’m one of those)!

Using angry words and an aggressive style of argument will make those people turn their backs on him even though he’s right. I’m more than sure he can think of several ahaadeeth and ayaat that address anger and its influence on the listeners.

 

 

PS

I assumed the question was directed at me.

[Truth Seeker]

Fair enough i will try to improve.

[Truth Seeker]

The Saudi Rulers and Oil

 

As the price of oil continues to rise, Saudi Arabia recently announced that she would ‘save’ the world economy by increasing her overall production, against the wishes of other OPEC members. As the world’s largest exporters of oil, the Saudi regime claims it has a duty to ensure that oil prices remain stable and cheap for a global economy which has come to depend so heavily on oil.

 

Saudi’s role in the world is defined exclusively by her production of oil, without which she is impotent. Her recent pledge to increase oil production and soothe spiralling prices for the benefit of western economies bears testament to this.

 

Herein lies the principal problem for the House of Al-Saud. As world oil reserves are predicted to peak within the next fifty years, global energy markets will inevitably begin to shift towards alternative sources of fuel. To prepare for the inevitable depletion of fossil fuels, ESSO and BP have already begun to develop alternative sustainable energy formats. Yet the question must be asked, although the west has clearly begun to prepare for this eventuality, what are the Saudi’s doing?

 

Remarkably, despite the Saudi economy relying almost exclusively on the sale of oil for national revenues, it would appear as though hardly any industries or technologies are being developed for long term sustainability. Thus, although Riyadh is rapidly acquiring the image of a rich and sprawling metropolis, with a skyline to rival that of any western capital, her future in a post-oil era appears to be uncertain.

 

Rising levels of national debt and an increasing poverty gap between the rich and poor suggest that Saudi, like other countries in the Muslim world, will quickly succumb to a future characterised by debt and poverty. The Al-Saud’s have failed miserably to look after the people’s interests and build a sustainable economy. Squandering oil revenues on their own hedonistic luxuries the Saudi regime continues to neglect an impending disaster. The royal family’s indifference towards this problem almost certainly confirms that Saudi will quickly fall into the same poverty trap which now consumes the Muslim world once the oil finally runs dry.

 

However, the future need not look so bleak. Countries like India and China have recently developed their economies by developing strong national industries across a range of different service sectors. Yet, the Saudi’s look unlikely to follow in their footsteps. Lacking both the will and the determination to invest in such projects they continue, like other rulers in the Muslim world, to squander the Ummah’s wealth on their own luxuries.

 

This incident clearly represents how the Saudi regime, like all others in the Muslim world, works only to secure western interests and not those of the Muslim Ummah. Not only are they unable to administer the affairs of the Muslims, but crucially, they are also unwilling. The pittance they receive in return for their slavish subservience to western interests is only spent on enhancing their already hedonistic lifestyles. It is this acquiescence and indifference to the plight of the Ummah which has earned them the wrath of the Muslims worldwide.

 

The Prophet (saw) explained, “The best of your imams (leaders) are those whom you love them and they love you, and you pray for them and they pray for you. And the worst of your leaders are those whom you hate them and they hate you, and you curse them and they curse you.” [Recorded by Muslim from `Awf Bin Maalik]

 

The Saudi rulers have clearly revealed their allegiance to the western powers and their contempt for Islam and the Muslims. Muslims in the West must expose the corrupt Muslim rulers whose treachery, cowardice and excesses become clearer by the day and must similarly articulate the case for the sincere Islamic leadership as a viable and practical alternative.

 

Asim Khan

 

Source: www.1924.org (corrupt source according to salafi_online, so beware).

[NGONGE]

Good coherent article this time but in no way does it address the scholars and their shortcomings!

 

Still, lets stick with the House of Saudi and the various gripes we have with them for now. It seems that the West also have a problem with the Al Saud’s government. In every documentary and every news report we see we hear them criticising the way the Saudi government is run. They want to enforce Western ideas on the kingdom and are encouraging different dissident factions to rebel against Al Saud. I know and you know that the Saudi method of government is not ideal and is not serving the people well. In fact, strike that, it’s adequate for its people but the foreign policy is what’s being contested here, right? Fine, lets assume there is a coup and the House of Saud is no more, what sort of alternative will we have? Remember, if there is ever going to be any kind of coup in Saudi Arabia, it’s not going to be a random thing perpetrated by a few disgruntled soldiers. It’s going to come from within. It’s likely to be one of the many princes of that kingdom who will organise this revolt. Which one is it going to be? Is it going to be one of the religious princes that disagree with the government’s foreign policy (and there are many of those) or is it going to be one of the “modernises”? When change does occur, as it must, what sort of political landscape is it going to resemble? Will Saudi Arabia withdraw and isolate itself from the world or will it become an Arab liberal democracy in the mould of America and Israel? Do we actually want any of that?

 

 

In this world of political games, treachery and splinter Islamic movements, who’s right and who’s wrong and why are the Saudis being singled out?

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

I'm sure you're well aware of the historical affliation between the salafiyah movement and the house of Saud

on contrare mon amie....im not aware.

 

Movement?!? salafiyah is Islam....so would u say Islam is a movement?

 

lbn Taymiyyah (d.728H) - rahimahullaah -

 

said: "There is no criticism for the one who proclaims the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf , who attaches himself to it and refers to it. Rather, it is obligatory to accept that from him by unanimous agreement (Ittifaaq) because the way (madhdhab) of the Salaf is nothing but the Truth (Haqq)." [Majmoo al-Fataawaa 4:149]

 

Abu Haneefah

 

(d. 150H) (rahimahullaah) said: "Adhere to the athar (narration) and the tareeqah (way) of the Salaf (Pious Predecessors) and beware of newly invented matters for all of it is innovation" [Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al Mantaq wal-Kalaam p.32]

 

treacherous rulers of the kingdom and their "Ministries of Religious Affairs"

CM- If u have something productive to bring to the table...may i suggest you back up your statements....im sure u can find something in the Hizbu-Tahreer official website...Khaliffah *uhm..Uhm*

 

NGONGE

your right, .....i can think of few hadith about gentleness...inshallah i'm working on my choice of words...Baarakallahu feekum 4 ur sound advice!

 

However you have to see where im coming from.....there are many narrations from the salaf about being harsh with Ahlul Bid'ah(people of innovations) they are more harmful to the Ummah then the jews and christians. a prime example is Imam Ahmed the imam of da'wah Salafiyah...and the likes of Ibn taymiyyah..etc

 

wa salamu alaykum

[Truth Seeker]

if you could respond to my counter arguments then maybe we can move onto another argument.

 

Jazakallah Khair.

[General Duke]

Salam Alaikum brothers

Salafi Online, truth seeker, NGONGE others

good debate so far well argued and good refernces from Salafi and Truth.

 

I have a number questions for Salafi, does our religion allow muslim rulers to take as protectors unbelievers, with this I have in mind the 1991 gulf war?

If not what must muslims populations do in such cases?

 

 

A question for Truth Seeker, what is the philospohy of Hizb Tahreer, give us a summary a background please.

 

Brothers take care Insha Allah we will speak soon

 

Asalam

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

Sorry Truth Seeker with all do respect - i can not do that, for i feel that you have not provide sufficient evidences for your assertions.

 

my main goal on this thread was to defend the scholars of islam, and to censor your slandering/backbitting...

 

as for the Gov of saudiyah well, im not concerned with them.

Its is not from the manhaj of the salaf to critize the Rulers in Public but rather to advice them in secret

 

Prove:

 

in the time of ‘Uthmaan radiyallaahu ‘anhu

some of the people said to Usaamah ibn Zaid radiyallaahu ‘anhu ‘Will you not speak ‘Uthmaan?’ So he replied, ‘You think that I will not talk

to him without letting you know about it (also). Indeed, I will certainly talk

to him regarding that which concerns me and him without initiating a

matter which I do not love to be the first to initiate(critizing the Ruler in from of the public).’(bukhari,vol 5)

 

so perhaps you can find someone else to carry on with this discussion.

[Salafi_Online]

I have a number questions for Salafi, does our religion allow muslim rulers to take as protectors unbelievers, with this I have in mind the 1991 gulf war?

If not what must muslims populations do in such cases?

Akhil-karim when the lay muslim doesnt have the knowledge of an issue, Allah jala Wa Cala said to ask those who know, so this Question was ask, to Shaykh Bin Baaz, a well know scholar, u probably know him, anyways he said that Sadam is a kafir and needs be to fought, the council of scholars all declared that Sadam and his regime are not muslims, until they repent to Allah and leave the atheist BaCath party....

 

as for the issue of the muslim gov taking protectors with the kufar this is an issue i have limited knowledge in , however i know you can have a threaty with the non muslims, would u consider this as taking them as protectors?!?

 

Bro. SmithNwestern

.... if u refer to the books of hadith, Allah' messenger(saas) fortold the coming of corrupt regimes and oppressive rulers...also he has adviced us in this matter, he did not leave us in darkness, thus its upon us to acquire 'ilm and apply it in our daily lives!

 

For those who critize the Saudi Gov...listen to what the scholar the ocean of knowledge, Shaykh Muqbil from yemen, who himself was exile from the kingdom, has to say on his return to the land for medical purpose!

 

this was the last tape he did before his death.

for those who dont know Shaykh muqbil, he was the student of Albani, and a scholar from Ogadan, somalia, named Abu Abdallah as Somali

 

www.muqbil.co.uk

entitled: What I Witnessed in Saudi Arabia

 

i sincerly Advice all us, to rely upon the people of Ilm, before we take ur religion from the media!

[sahal]

Originally posted by Salafi_Online:

Innalhamdulillah

 

 

as for the Gov of saudiyah well, im not concerned with them.

Its is not from the manhaj of the salaf to critize the Rulers in Public but rather to advice them in secret

 

Salafi-on-line, you told the truth of the so-called SALAFIYAH?

 

[Qac Qaac]

It looks like i am late for this debate, and i in no need in participating. but ppl we have to tell the trueth.

 

Pro salafi waraa, everything the salaifi say is like Quran and hadith huh, we have to take it, no questions about it.

 

i have a question for u, if u r salafi, how can u, u live in 2004, i thought the salaf was prophets and the sahaba first generation then their kids the 2nd, then their grandsons, where r u in here bro..

 

also u r referrign and brign ayah after ayah, and yet u still calling ur muslim brother fitnah seeker, what religion is that.

 

i agree with concious manipulation, she said, u have to learn and live with that so many ppl are not salafi ppl. we khalafi we live in 2004 bro. hana waalin. looool.

 

salafi bro i would support the sheikhs of saudi coz they got knowledge, but i won't support those kafir loving kingdom. ooops did i say something wrong. how can they watch their arab brother get humiliated and still sit next U.S. UFFFF CALAYK. i wish they were the real salafi, like the sahaba not the ones that run around now adays.

[Salafi_Online]

innalhamdulillah

 

Qac Qac my boy...my brother in islam we go way back. saxib

 

there is "salaf" and salafi

 

Salaf( the companions, those who followed them, and those who followed ...ie first three generation of the muslims after the prophet's death)

 

Salafi( those who came after the salaf) those who ascribe to the manhaj of the salaf (ie) followers of the the quran and sunnah with the understand of the SALAF(companions)

 

"The fundamentals of the Sunnah with us are: clinging to that which the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) were upon, taking them as our examples to be followed, avoiding innovations, for every innovation is a misguidance." Usoolus-Sunnah (p. 5) of Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal.

 

im not even going to respond to the rest..it was not my intentions to defend the Saudi regime...rather the scholars....from my last post u can see that the companions did not speak ill of the rulers in public...so Qac Qac wont u follow their example?

 

qac qac nice to see you back

 

Saxib NGONGE...Hope my choice of words were ok