Saudi Mufti issues fatwa calling people to inform on militants

[OG_Girl]

Originally posted BY:NGONGE

 

Salafi, if we’re being ignorant saaxib maybe a little gentle persuasion will be more beneficial to us than mere rants! Most people shut their ears when they feel they’re being attacked

, Why I have feelings some one knows me well

 

U said what I wanted to say!.

 

Still hasnt spoken out against the Saudi's?

 

He wont, trust me on that

 

Salam

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah....Wa salamu alaykum

 

Fitnah Seeker, care to expand on this?

 

Still hasnt spoken out against the Saudi's?

[sahal]

Originally posted by Salafi_Online:

 

 

you came out of your den to eat the flesh of the most pious people in the world.

 

There is no muslim blood better thatn the other except their nearness to ALLAH, and ALLH only knows who is near to him.

if you think that some kind of people like saudis are the more pious than the other muslims YOU@RE SICK and you need MEDICINE.

 

 

quote:

---

but the reality is what they're doing and what we see on TV channales.

Reality is what u see on T.V? u just exposed yourself!

 

 

do you want us to believe the Saudi TV which is Al-saud family TV (look at the NEWS 30% Fahad, 30% Abdalla 30% Sultan and 10% the rest of the world) and to deny all other world media including Muslim media like ALJAZEERA.

 

 

the most dangerous people in society are those who speak without knowledge, thats because they cause more harm then good.

the worst are those who become tblind the crimes of Al-saud and their defenders

[Abdulladiif Al-Fiqih]

Bismilaah

 

Salafi, bro, this is a Nasiiha NOT a personal attack but your tone of discussions and choice of words are wrong and it is not appropriate to simply dismiss the ideas of others as foolish and ignorance, no matter how shallow their arguments seem to you. You must lend them a respectful ear and respond to their ideas with yours. We must bring the appropriate medicine to treat the diseases that we encounter as Muslims if we wish to cure the maladies that afflict us. Arguments are best won by presenting evidence with respect and sobriety NOT by labeling them and calling them names. Composure and gentleness of tone, when accompanied by sound evidence and intelligent arguments, is the best way to refute falsehood and win hearts over to the truth NOT with harsh words, quick tongue, and personal attack. We have to be patient with one another akhii.

[Truth Seeker]

I think the brother got my name wrong its truth seeker.

 

As to the point that i cause fitna, how?

 

By me calling for unity? having one leader? calling for the implementation of Islam? work to fulfill the obligations of Allah (swt)?

 

I'l lay my cards on the table, the reality is i did have a lot of respect for the salaf as they claimed to follow the sunnah yet when it comes to politics they abandon it.

 

This whole issue of attacking the leaders is so salafi, you cant do that it will cause fitna, ive heard the salafi rhetoric and this whole issue that the scholars give private nasiyya to the leaders to avoid fitna. What is the evidence to support this.

 

The reality is these scholars by not clearly denouncing the leaders for ruling by other than what Allah (swt) has revealed give legitmacy to the rulers and are part of there treachery.

 

The example of Imam Malik when the Mutazila wanted him to say the Quran was created was not to give private guidace to them but clearly make the ummah know of the incorrect thought.

 

At the time of Umar bin Khattab he asked the people who would account him for what he did, a sahabi stood up with his sword and said i will with this sword. Not i'l have a private chat with you.

 

The reality is the scholars have a huge responsibility and that is to speak the truth that is why the Prophet (saw) that they are the inheritors of the prophets.

 

I dont want to get into a whole salafi discussion but the general point is that why when it comes to politics nobody wants to know?, when it comes to condeming the Ummah they are all ready but when it comes to the leaders theres such restraint.

 

Look at Ibn Taymia did he give private guidance to the rulers? no he was clear on the role of the scholar and was prisoned for his work. Which of these scholars is languishing in the prisons???????????

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

Abdiladiif May Allah reward bless you, for your kind Nasii7a

 

Abi Waqqas reported: That Umar Ibn Khattab asked permission of the Rasul(saas) to see him while some quraish women were sitting with him, taking to him and asking him for more expenses, raising their voices above the prophet(saas), When Umar came in he asked permission to enter, then the women quickly put on their veils. The Rasul(saas) smiled, Umar said," Oh Allah messenger! May Allah always keep you smiling." The Rasul(saas) said,"these women have been here, roused my wonder for as soon as they heard your voice they put on their veils." Umar said," Oh messenger of Allah you have more right to be feared then I, "Oh enemies of yourself! you fear me more then you fear the messenger of Allah?" They replied Yes for you are harsher and sterner then Allah's messenger?", then Allah' messenger said." Oh Ibn Khatab! By him in whose hand my soul is in, When Satan finds you going one way he takes another way other then yours." (bukhari v.8.3683)

 

Abdiladiif Akhil-Karim, there is time for harshness and time for gentleness, harshness is a praiseworthy act, Ibn Khatab was well known for his harshness when the religion of Allah was attack, and clearly these people are attacking the scholars of Islam, thus attacking islam! There is no Tolerance for such people! Had they been sincere, and asked question before jumping to conclusion, then a Nasiha would be fitting!

 

Abdiladiif i noticed u remain quiet about their backbiting! whatever happened to commanding the good and forbidding evil? hmmm

 

Sahal:

There is no muslim blood better thatn the other except their nearness to ALLAH, and ALLH only knows who is near to him.

Uuh?

U never heard of the hadith that the scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets...and those nearest to Allah are those who learn the book of Allah and the Sunnah and teach it others?

 

Every Muslim has a different level of Taqwa…and the people who have the highest level of Taqwa are the scholars!

 

if you think that some kind of people like saudis are the more pious than the other muslims YOU@RE SICK and you need MEDICINE.

The thread was about the Saudi Scholars, no the general population! Guess u missed that point!

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

All praise is due to Allaah the Lord of the worlds and peace and blessings upon His servant and His Messenger our prophet and messenger Muhammad and his family and companions and those that follow him until the of judgment.

 

Allah (Subxaanahu wa tacalaa) has commanded us to be just and to speak to truth in all affairs no matter what the consequences are. Further, Allah (Subxaanahu wa tacalaa) wants us to rule in every situation by his religion and not by our emotions or corrupted opinions.

 

It is very interesting this individual (i.e. truth seeker) who has been poisoned by opinions and now is trying to poison the rest of us. Inshallah, first of all, I want to make clear that it is not permissible to speak ill about the Scholars of Islam; especially those who are known for their KNOWLEDGE (Qur’an wa Sunnah upon the way of the Salafu-Saalex). And from this we know the Scholars are indeed the inheritors of the prophets, so speaking ill against them is like eating a flesh that has poison.

 

So indeed, this brother/sister “Truth Seeker” has poisoned himself/herself by indulging and feasting upon that which is not allowed for him/her (i.e. speak ill of the Scholars).

 

And by Allah, his judging of the scholars with his kalaam (words) is all from that filthy article which was printed by the website www.1924.org and what he has seen or heard from western news media. This person feels as if he/she is upon Baseerah (insight knowledge) by posting that article and initiating his attack on the Scholars of Islam.

 

But, O poster, do you know who owns that website you got that article from. But Allxumdullah; we know that website and knowledge is with us and we know that which you are jaahil of. So, let us first of all look into where you got your resource of corruption from.

 

He/she attain his article from the website www.1924.org May Allah be severe to them. This website is run by some organization that has left the Fold of Ahlul-sunnah Wa-Jamaacah. They are from one of the deviant groups called “Hizbu Tahrir” which was started by Taqiyyud-deen an Nabhaanee May Allah give him what he deserves. This organization has developed many of the methodologies of the khawarij.

 

For example, They make it permissible to kill the people of the Qiblah (i.e. Muslims) and the top of that they have some major Aqeedah problems (We Seek Refuge in Allah from their corruption). Our Shayk Muqbil Ibn Hadee Al-wadaci did an enjoyable refutations of this group and Inshallah anyone who wishes can research it and find out. In addition; some of the mistakes that they have in Aqeedah are many; but Inshallah I shall only mention few of them.

The first one being that; They (Hizbu Tahrir) reject the punishment of the grave which many of the salaf have affirmed Allxumdullah.

 

Also; they reject Axaaad Xadeeths relating to Caqeedah. I believe some Scholars have refuted them for this May Allah reward them.

So, “Truth Seeker” is the people who you seek the truth from?. If indeed this is the case; than I say May Allah guide you…ameen.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

Furthermore, so how can you accuse the Scholars of “hypocrisy” when you are talking from that which you do not know or may do(I.e Hizb Tahree).

 

And Allah (Subxaanahu wa tacalaa) reminded us in the quran when HE said, “O you who believe, do not say that which you do not do”. What I think you should do is repent sincerely to Allah.

 

Indeed the scholars of Saudia Arabia are known much for aiding the Sunnah. And there is among them, the likes of Shayk Abdul-azeez Aali. Those Scholars are known for their correct Caqeedah and good understanding of the deen.

 

And from the most amazing of affair is that you say in the thread “The issue of killing civilians is haram, however how you determine what a civilian is could be argued from my understanding, but this was not the purpose of the thread.”

 

How could you over-ride something which Allah has already made haraam by saying, “however”. When Allah and his messenger have clarified for us a matter, “we hear and we obey” and this is the methodology of Ahlul-sunnah.

 

So, I advice you not to take your own understanding of the deen, after all, killing someone is not easy and it would require you to have a solid proof in order to justify it.

 

And amongst your many errors in this thread is when you say, “I'l lay my cards on the table, the reality is i did have a lot of respect for the salaf as they claimed to follow the sunnah yet when it comes to politics they abandon it .”

What do you mean? The salaf are from Ahlul-sunnah and those who ascribe to them are with them in goodness. And how can you say that they abandon politics? What is your proof? Just cause their not allowing people to vote or allow people to attack the governments or over throw them. If you have study the deen and the usool of Ahlul Sunnah you would not have spoken like that. Because it is one of the principals of Ahlul Sunnah that it is not allowed to revolt against the government because there will occur a greater evil. And if you want an example, look at our own country, Somalia. Look at their condition now!

 

Also you write, “ The example of Imam Malik when the Mutazila wanted him to say the Quran was created was not to give private guidace to them but clearly make the ummah know of the incorrect thought.”

 

This shows your poor understanding of the deen and in general all affairs of the dunyaa. Because what is known is that the person who was tested with issue of the quran was not Imaam Malik rather it was Imaam Ahmed .

 

And to give you more insight; Imaam Ahmed while he was chained and beaten, he still continued to call the Ruler at the time “Ameerul-mimineen”. And since Imam Ahmed is the “Imaam Ahlul-sunnah wa jam’aah” you can look into his book called “usolo Sunnah” and see for yourself what he says about revolting against the rulers. So, Inshallah next time you won’t revile the scholars for showing their hikmah(wisdom).

 

O Poster May Allaah have mercy upon you., You accuse the Kingdom of ruling by man made laws, Subhanallah this is a great accusation, I plea to you to provide evidences for your discourse, with support from Kitub-Llah, the Sunnah & a scholarly opinions, mere ranting will not suffice,

 

I futher I advice you that you should seek the truth from those who have it, and not from corrupt organization that are known for their deviation, and I admonition you to not get involved in this affair, for certainly it is beyond your capacity. And to Allah we all belong.

 

final note, it is upon us to speak with knowledge,

 

truth Seeker: This whole issue of attacking the leaders is so salafi, you cant do that it will cause fitna, ive heard the salafi rhetoric and this whole issue that the scholars give private nasiyya to the leaders to avoid fitna. What is the evidence to support this.

Evidence: It is authentically reported from the Messenger (swallallahu alayhi

wasallam) in the hadeeth of ‘lyaad ibn Ghunm who said, “The Messenger of Allaah (swallallahu alayhi wasallam) said,

 

‘Whoever desires to advise

the one with authority then he should not do so openly, rather he should

take him by the hand and take him into seclusion (and then advise him).

 

And if he accepts (the advice) from him then (he has achieved his

objective) and if not then he has fulfilled that which was a duty upon

him.”’ Reported by Ahmad (3/403) and Ibn Abee ‘Aasim (2/521) with a

saheeh isnaad.

 

Know that the Religion is what came from Allaah, the Blessed and Most High. It is not something left to the intellect and opinions of men. Knowledge it is what comes from Allaah and His Messenger , upon understanding of Salaf, so do not follow anything based upon your desires and so deviate away from the Religion and leave Islaam.

[sahal]

Abdiladiif, Brother you adviced this person in the best way, but i'm afraid he/she will never listen you since he/she like many others become blind on the crimes of "Kingdom of Saudi Arabia".

 

Just look their official Names:

 

Kingdom is prohibited in Islam Since ALLAH is the KING.

 

Saudi is prohibited in Islam since it's tribe name and tribalism is forbidden in Islam

 

Arabia is prohibited in Islam Since our prophet (Peace be upon him) destroyed the nationalism by saying "There is no difference between Arab and Ajam (non Arab), Black & White, Red & White .... except Taqwa" As he said (Peace be upon him).

 

and they're proud to be ARAB and SAUDI KINGDOM

 

So, the foundation of this government is aginst Islam let alone her actions, and people like him/her called it THE TAWHEED GOVERNMENT.

 

Therefore we just ask ALLAH for him/her to show the wrong from right.

[OG_Girl]

Sahal wallalo, first , Saudi is NOT Tribe is their great great grand father's name.

 

Secondlly, So u suggest To not say we "Somali " too?...Wallalo nothing wrong, we can identyfy our selvies since Allah said " we created U nations and Tribes , To know each other , best of U who fear Allah more"<--this is roughly translated to the Aayah In english!.

 

So nothing wrong people Identfy them selvies.. there was Sulaiman Al farisi...and prophet never said change or any thing... Bilal Al Habash...other great example.there is many many examples too.

 

My point we shouldn't take Aayats and Hadeths by "text"or by " word" BUT what it meant it self... meant to NOT abuse, discriminate, each other cos of family, tribe or athnics... U all Brothres in Islam, BUT NO thing wrong to Identity Ur self for who U r.

 

PS: I am not with any one arguing here, just felt I have to correct some thing here SINCE I am Islamic Law student.

 

You all just remember our Religion is " middle" NOT extreme....as Allah said " wa ja'alnakom Omatan wasa tan"..means we made U middle nation NOT right wings or left wings... just in the middle were all human been can agree and that is Human natural " fetra" .

 

Salam

[Truth Seeker]

I apologise for the mistake on the narration of Imam Ahmad, i get the two incidents mixed up regarding the persecetion the two great imams went through.

 

As to you accusations against the hizb, i believe i have explained the issue of ahad hadith on another thread, i will find it and repost it here (sometimes i do not get access to all the threads, is this just me or do others find this?)

 

You made some serious accusations you now need to bring the proof for your accusations. What is specifically wrong with 1924 website? Shiekh Taqi? Hizb?

 

So is King Fahd Ameer ul Muminoon? have you given your bayah to him?

 

Ruling by shirk is that not spreading fitna? Muslims having to live there lives according to other than what Allah (swt) has revealed is that not spreading fitna.

 

What is your solution that your scholars push to rectify the position of the Muslims? What is your method to fulfill the obligation of Khilfah?

 

The Ahl e Hadith say that you can vote for Kufr, is this the same twisted view of the Salfi's?

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdalilah

 

It is an amassing matter that you seek evidences from me, which I have been doing, yet you refrain from providing any substantial evidence from your part.

 

Oh readers may Allah have mercy on u, notice how this individual shifts topics everything time is he disproved, May Allah reward you for your patience….

 

Truth Seeker

 

You claim that the kingdom is managed upon shirk…walilHamd... once again u fail to back up your statement, Akhil-Kariim, do u expect us to just take your word for it. Bro, who are you, your unreliable, supply us with authentic proves.

 

pertaining to those Hizb Tahreer, I already mentioned that the scholars, such as Shaykh Muqbil student of Albani has refuted them and can be easily accessible, also if u live in England can u contact ameer of hizb-ut-tahreer in england, omar bakri Muhammad, and ask him if they believe in the punishment of the Grave plus many more of their fallacies.

 

And no I don’t vote, never have and never will….stop changing the topic!

 

Until you refute my points I will not address you again, it’s a never ending fairy-tale with you, when you’re disproved you just bring up another issue…at any rate my time is valuable…and can not be wasted on the people of innovation.

 

imaam ahmad bin hanbel said:

"we believe in the punishment of the grave [nu'minu bi athaab-il qubr] and in munkar and nakeer, and that the slave is asked in his grave." see p 388, vol 1 of `fiqh-us-sunnah' by sayyid saabiq, pub. daar-ul fathi lili'laam-il-arabee].

[sahal]

OG Girl, Would you allow Somalia to be named after one of the Somali tribes such as Qurac because the president or the king belong to Qurac tribe?

 

If you say NO, you should not allow Al-saud family to name after their tribe to the TWO HOLY MOSQUE country.

 

this country was called HIJAZ and the upper part NAJAD, why they don't let one of these names?

[Truth Seeker]

Sorry if i have not answered your questions.

 

The issue of Saudi is they rule with other than what Allah (swt) has revealed. What we see is many examples of this e.g.

 

- Non Saudis are not alllowed residence

- They recognise borders

- Fahd is not a legitmate ruler from Islam

- They seek the judgement of the UN and US

 

The issue on ahad hadith is clear:

 

There are two types of hadith in terms of narration, Ahad where the narrations are 1 or fewer that Mutawtir. Mutawatir there are that many narrations that the hadith could not have been misreported. From these two definitions it is clear that Ahad may contain doubt as the narrations are to few and mutwatir there is 100% certainty.

 

Hence we now look at aqeedah, aqeedah is that which we have firm belief in therefore it cannot contain doubt hence you cannot take ahad hadith into aqeedah.

 

To give an example lets look at the collection of the Quran, it was collected with it being checked by many companions hence the defintion of the Quran is the revealed speech of Allah (swt) that has been given to Muahmmed (saw) contained in the Mushaf of Uthman (ra) through tawatur (mutawatir) narrations...

 

Hence we see that ahad narrations were not accepted into the Quran because it is something we have 100% certainty in. So how can we take ahad into aqeedah, we definately beleive in it but do not take something that may have doubt init into aqeedah.

 

I hope this has answered your questions, if i have missed any please advise.

 

A quick question though on Fahd, do you see him as Amir ul Muminoon?

[OG_Girl]

OG Girl, Would you allow Somalia to be named after one of the Somali tribes such as Qurac because the president or the king belong to Qurac tribe?

 

If you say NO, you should not allow Al-saud family to name after their tribe to the TWO HOLY MOSQUE country.

.

 

Heavy!... Is my country to decide or accept or NOT? Do I have choices?

 

My own I have NO rights , even to save my own A$$.

I am telling U this and I am out from this really dirty debade !:

 

We fed up from these Over Used and Abused cassetes... we been abused the name of Unity, Nationalism, NOW is this to ABUSE us Under the name OF our great religion?!!, Is this Other dictatorship UNDER the name Of Islam? Islam is Innocent all this ...just plain controling people with NO respect what so ever what other people's opinion or their concern!!.

 

Is just sad to be that Naive , U just making Islam just ur own idiology and ur own intrests.!!

 

This is hurt to see whom talking and reading Quraan with their mouths and bringing Hadeths... using Islam this way!!!

 

As they say : is right words being used to wrong thing" ( kalamat al-haq yorado beha bel batel)

 

Salam