The Incredible Obsession Of Lewis With The Destruction Of Somalia's Unity

[Ace of Spadez]

Originally posted by Baashi:

She had just cleared up the misconception others may have about the secessionist as she put it they are all for “developed and stable Somalia”.

Baashi you seem to be quick to read things the way you want to read them. When Ms Londond said the above qoute, she means Somalia as Somali Proper and not what was the Former Somalia Democratic Republic. And just like her, I do believe in a developed and stable Somalia.

 

In addition you got the term secession wrong because Somalia and Somaliland never legally united. And to go even further, there was no unitary Somali state until the advent of colonialism. If you look into history, this whole idea of nation states never existed, even in europe before rise of the Wesphalian system. Its a withdrawal, from the voluntary union.

 

As to the Fu’ad type and his likes such as Jamac Qalib and Osman Kaluun why don’t we put them in the same basket eh?

The difference is, Fuad Aden Cade actually commands a constituency. He is leading forces that are just a mere 30 KM from LA itself. You were better off stiking with the bribery issue than comparing him with people with no support.

 

The premise of having strong and united Somalia is straightforward and simple. It can be defended from Islamic, nationalistic, and economic perspectives. It is the right thing to do.

This is the only place you started to talk about what Ms London asked you and that is all you could muster up. Somali Unity is good. lol Which in itself is not a lie, but what kind of unity is good? How do we get it? You don't just get something you strive for it, and you show your metal. However, you got one thing wrong. Somaliweyn is nationalism, it cannot be backed by Islam. I am terribly sorry. Your contempt for colonialism and the way Somalis have suffered in the world makes you look foolish when you advocate for Western principles namely, the nation state. All you have to do is look at what nationalism did to the Ottaman Empire.

[Sophist]

If nation is state is not the current practicable way of organising soiciety (save Islamic government) then what do you suggest would take place in its place?

 

I remember having a conversation with a fellow African chap couple years back. My African friend was enlightened in matters pertaining governance and anything to do with society and it's organisation. He lemented that the reason African countries are in the dire situations politically was due to its lack of "evolutionary process". He pointed out that there was lack of gorowing society to its mature years-- genetical modification of society had taken place. We had been injected with medicines that made us grow faster than nature intended. He continued to argue forcefully that the concept of Nation State was never needed in Africa, this was European conception. We were not mature enough (age wise) to adopt this way governance.

 

Perhaps the intensity of this argument may be persuasive, but I am left to wonder what the solution would be? tribal fuedal system within Somali context? Because that was what we had in Somalia before the White man arrived. She we go back to that; if so wouldn't woe betide us if we attempt such a thing considering the heated political hostility from our despised neighbour-- the ver neigbour that helped us to first organise ourselves as Somalis; Ahmed Gurey's Jihad is what I have in mind.

 

Sophist

 

Nabad

[Gabbal]

He pointed out that there was lack of gorowing society to its mature years-- genetical modification of society had taken place. We had been injected with medicines that made us grow faster than nature intended.

An interesting point of view to say the least

[Baashi]

Spadez,

First of all Ms London will clarify what by Somalia she meant. If I misunderstood her then I will concede that and call it an honest mistake. The legal argument of secessionists is their weakest point for they ignore the “irrevocability” of the document as was agreed then. Moreover, the vexing question of who wants to withdraw is on the table. Is it “Somaliland” as we know it or party of that entity? The simplistic approach you and other vocal minority had voiced should be reviewed for the sake of your credibility.

 

As to the notion of nation-state being European invention has some truth to it. However, dynasties and other imperial powers be it Islamic or Chinese had been in existence in different form long before modern European model.

 

You have a point in saying “Somaliweyn” is conceived on nationalistic platform in its conception. I’m also in agreement that Islam forbids any form of “assabiyah” be it tribal or nationalistic. My understanding is that Islam teaches us not to attach ourselves to land but to belief and if necessary we should leave our homeland for the sake of our faith. That being said, what Somaliweyn sentiments entail today is fundamentally different from what it entailed thirty years ago. Today that label is thrown at anyone who is for the Somalia that once existed before the anarchy.

 

What you need to understand is Islamists have compelling interest in having integrated not fragmented Islamic polity. What we have is secular nation-states, not on our own making but imposed upon us, scattered all over the world. In each country, the Islamic revival is virtually a national movement. They are operating within the confined imaginary borders they found themselves in and in which they want to abolish. Somaliweyn goals and Islamist goals converge in this intersection. If anything, breaking up Somalia is the worst “assabiyah” one could ever conceive.

 

As to making the case of Somali unity, it is simple: Somalis are one people united by ties of blood, history, language, religion, and interests. They ought to be united in one political entity which is socially and culturally Islamic, modern, and progressive. As to how we do this that is my friend the one billion question and we need people like you to help us come up ways to achieve this goal.

[Saxardiid]

the escape goat continues

 

I.M. Lewis's Daylight Gaffe

 

By M.M. Gure

 

Why would someone so critical of the SNM in its early days so suddenly become the mouthpiece of secession? Where does Lewis's apparent hatred to Somalia and Somalis spring out? Is he settling a score with someone, some groups or Somalia in general? Or is it just for the money since we know that he is on the secessionist payroll?

 

I.M Lewis starts his infamous article “Somaliland ' came into being as a British Protectorate in the late 19 th century, as treaties of ‘protection' were signed with the local Somali clans.” Not uncharacteristically, Mr. Lewis deliberately ignored the existence of three Somaliland territories divided between Britain , France and Italy . The word Somaliland was never limited to only the British occupied territories.

 

Secondly, he unwittingly admits that Britain had entered treaties with the Somali clans, of course not as one community but as separate communities with distinct leadership and fiefdoms. (edited here for tribal garbage by the poster). Therefore, legitimacy to secede requires the consent of the seven sub-clans in the region before any legal process is considered. Moreover, the marriage between the south and north can legally be dissolved only after the republic is restored and referendum of the five regions in the north carried out under the supervision of the international community .

 

Mr. Lewis also admitted that Britain had no intention of creating a sovereign Somaliland state in that part of the divided Somali territories. The fact of the matter is that Britain had encouraged its enclave to join their southern brothers when the later was poised to gaining its independence from Italy on 1 st July 1960 . Otherwise, the north would have remained in colonial hands for decades like Djibouti .

 

Moreover, the words of the late British Foreign Secretary Mr. Ernest Bevin whose plan was to gather the fragmented Somali territories into one sovereign state are still respected and honored by many Somalis. Mr. Bevin said “At about the time we occupied our part, the Ethiopians occupied an inland area which is the grazing grounds for nearly half the nomads of the British Somaliland for six months of the year. Similarly, the nomads from the Italian Somaliland must cross the existing frontier in search of water. In all innocence, therefore, we proposed that British Somaliland, Italian Somaliland and adjacent part of Ethiopia, if Ethiopia agreed, should be lumped together as a trust territory, so that the nomads should lead their frugal existence with the least hindrance and there might be a real chance of decent economic life as understood in that territory.”

 

If Bevin sought the reunification of all Somali territories in 1949 with the pretext of commonality and homogeneity, why would Lewis and his likes are so passionately reiterating the fragmentation and destruction of the unified territories, which Britain itself played an important role in its realization in the first place? What are the motives of those who are advocating for the creation of sub-clan based mini-states in Africa in the new millennium? What is the booty and who is funding their crusade against the Somali people?

 

The foreign supporters of the secessionism in northern Somalia can be divided into four groups:

 

1- Former colonial civil servants who remember little of the past and know nothing of the present. Though this aging group has no apparent motive, however, their support to secession could be more of a show of solidarity with their former Somali subordinates than wanting to revisit the region for safari adventures to shoot lions and leopards in the northern plateaus. This group gives moral support and helps in lobbying by establishing contacts in the government to encourage MPs and other influential individuals in the Labour government to at least give an ear to what the secessionists are saying.

 

2- Foreigners married to Somali women from the north- This faithful group is in support of their spouses, who themselves are under pressure from the secessionist leaders and continually demanded to press their foreign husbands to support the secession. This group, depending on their position in their organizations and contacts in higher places, are more dangerous than the above group. They can write articles, contact people in governments and even become activists in the secessionist movement. However, they are prone to bribery and could be recruited as advisers to the secessionists to make money out of the people's misery. The most notable figure in this group is Mr. Matt Bryden who published an article in support of secession in the ICG website in 2003.

 

3- The parliamentarians- Some parliamentarians in the UK and in other European countries who face political uncertainty are courted by secession sympathizers in their constituencies in return for their votes in the upcoming elections. The MPs need the votes but they forget that the majority of the Somali immigrants in the UK and Europe are from the south and northern regions which don't support secession. It is a gamble which could eventually prove them wrong as the majority of the Somali-British will vote against those who support the destruction of their homeland. The MPs' dilemma may be that they have been misinformed and fed with false accounts of the demography of the Somali community here in the UK . The MPs should reckon the grave mistake of supporting secession in Somalia before the elections come and Somali voters exercise their civic rights to elect their right candidate. What is seen an opportunity of few more votes could back fire if political calculations are based on false assumptions?

 

4- The bounty hunters - This group mainly consists of former advisers to previous Somali governments and so-called analysts on Somali affairs. The reason I call them ‘bounty hunters' is that they had made fortunes out of Somalia 's miseries. As advisers, earning high salaries in foreign currency, the hard currency needed to develop the poor country's economic infrastructure, they led luxurious life in Mogadishu , once referred as the pearl of the Indian of Ocean, not to mention the number of books written on Somalia , which brought them even more fortunes. However, they shamefully betrayed and misled those who trusted them by giving ill and destructive advices until they swayed from the right path to good governance and the Somali state collapsed. Once the state collapsed, some of them supported the secession in the north. Why? Of course not ideologically, but because they are hired and handsomely paid by the secessionists with the aid money provided by the international community for the development of hospitals, schools and other public services for the region. They are hired hands equipped with laptop computers and know how to fool their unsuspecting employers. They very well know that helping the north secede will have a dire consequence on the volatile region of the Horn of Africa and Somalia in particular. After all, they claim that they are Somali affairs experts and had served different Somali governments in the past four decades. The most prominent individuals in this group are I M Lewis and John Drysdale, who both served different Somali administrations and wrote number of books on Somalia .

 

Apparently, Lewis's article didn't demonstrate enough reasons why the north has to secede. He incoherently advocates that the north was a British colony and that the south is unsettled. Well, Mr. Lewis forgets or may be doesn't know that the south was in British hands from 1941-1950 after Italy was defeated in the early years of the Second World War. What logic does it carry or pretext does it give to secede because Britain colonized the north? Shall we demand the separation of united Yemen , because southern Yemen was a British colony for over a century? Or shall we force India , Pakistan and Bangladesh to be reunited because they were all once a British colony? Lewis's blunt talk has no leverage and lacks justification for the idea he so blindly supports. May be it is the money that makes him talk.

 

However, the injustices committed by the military regime were not limited only to the northern towns. Injustice and genocide of far reaching scale were carried out in the Mudug, Galgadud, Hiran, Mogadishu and Lower Jubba . But the unfortunate truth in the north today is that majority of all those who are in power in Hargeisa played an important role in the suppression, detentions and murder of civilians. For example, the regional administrator Mr. Riyale and his Interior Minister Mr. Ismail alias Faqas (criminal) were the head of the security apparatus which violated the human right of many northern people. Electing or allowing such men in leadership positions certainly raise legal and moral questions of why secession becomes the first option. If oppression was the cause of resorting to secession, why elect those who caused so much pain and committed heinous crimes against civilians? Or was it just motivated by sheer clannism?

 

The question of political settlement in Somalia is painstakingly difficult one. But that doesn't mean breakthrough of the current political impasse is impossible and from desperation, Somalia must be divided along side clan fiefdoms. Lewis and others who advocate for the creation of clan-based mini-states shamefully ignore the grave consequences that it will have on the volatile region of Horn of Africa and other multi-ethnic or tribal regions in Africa . It will create hundreds of basket case clan/tribal states which could easily be manipulated by organized crime, drug traffickers, terrorists, money launderers, etc.

 

As the world becomes global village and countries of mutual economic and political interests integrate, there is no point of creating more basket case mini-states in this part of the world. Lewis's dream of weakening Somalia to allow others in the region to flourish and dominate will not materialize. His wicked flattering of some parts of Somalia will not fool the great majority. His old tactics are very much exposed as his ideas become obsolete, unreliable and irrelevant

 

MM Gure

 

click here for link

[Baashi]

Maansha'Allah MM Gure hit the nail on the head.

[Gediid]

Baashi

Nin guurigiisu gubanayo hadalkiisu and his so called "intellectual" diatribe against Somaliland is meaningless.I would suggest MM Gure and their likes to invest their time and energy in solving their own problems(Nairobi fiasco is a case at hand)instead of pointing fingers like a band of fools wondering aimlessly with absolutely no hope to speak of.

As for the issue of Somalis sharing ties hore loo yidhi gacantada oo qudhunto(qurunto) waa leyska gooyaa,it causes more harm than good.I think people like you whose reasoning I respect will understand that.

[Sophist]

Gacanta xagee kagoyneysaa? Inteebaase quruntey walaale?

[Baashi]

Originally posted by Gediid:

Baashi

Nin guurigiisu gubanayo hadalkiisu and his so called "intellectual" diatribe against Somaliland is meaningless.I would suggest MM Gure and their likes to invest their time and energy in solving their own problems(Nairobi fiasco is a case at hand)instead of pointing fingers like a band of fools wondering aimlessly with absolutely no hope to speak of.

As for the issue of Somalis sharing ties hore loo yidhi gacantada oo qudhunto(qurunto) waa leyska gooyaa,it causes more harm than good.I think people like you whose reasoning I respect will understand that.

Gediid bro...the wise poet got it right in early sixties and his words still apply today. Speaking of limb cutting business as a metaphor for secession poet Abdullahi Suldaan Timacade summed up this way:

 

Gardaduub hadii loo xidhoo, gaadhna ka ahaato,

Gacantii nin lihi goyneyaa waa gumuduntaaye,

Nin walaalkii geed ugu jidhaa geesi noqon waa!

 

As a young intelligent Muslim, I hope these words of wisdom resonate....

[Gediid]

Baashi

Xamaasidii 1960's calanka koonfuur keentey wey dhamaatey and I'm sure Timacadde if he was alive today would regret having driven people to such an unhappy union.

[Baashi]

Gediid,

Sentiments aside, can you, by any chance, decipher the substance of the sonnet and the principles he is articulating.

 

I sure do see where u coming from as far as ambutation of the rotten limb is concerned. However, to perform that kind of surgical work all other options must fail first. It all comes down to medical necessity. What happen to the second opinion all sane peaople would have sought when the stakes are high or the mid-wife's wisdom suffice it in this case

[Gediid]

Baashi

What would you suggest..........????

I'm dying to know what people like you think is the solution to this problem.Sidee baad u aragtaa xaalka maanta Somali u bahanatey oo loogu soo daabaqo dhib jira maanta?

[Baashi]

Gediid bro,

I honestly don't know. I do know, however, secession is not the answer.

 

If I have to take an educated guess I would say the "bottom up" and "building-block" approach is one, among many practical options, that could work.

 

There is saying revered by engineers and that is Edison's popular qoute "I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work" At least we now know what won't work: Pseudo-democracy or clan-based democracy, communism, dictatorship, etc. As they say trouble is temporary but the experience it teaches is permanent.

[Kowneyn]

Baashi:

 

If u don't know then let those who do do their work!

 

Kowneyn

[Baashi]

Kowneyn,

Hehee I guess Col. Yusuf, Col. Riyale, A/Qasim and Co. are the ones who you think now what they are doing! What do I know! Perhaps if and only if I cease posting my take on our affairs...perhaps that will help them do an effective job ...dang! Kowneyn...c'mon dude!