Rebels with out a cause

[Blessed]

Those of you living in the UK (and other parts of the western world) are properly familiar with police discoveries of yet another terrorist cell in London and other parts of the UK.

 

Judging from the latest news flashes it appears that the only criminals out there are Arabs (North Africans), Jamaican gunmen and the odd freaky white dude- but they don’t count

 

I am really annoyed with these so called ‘mujahids’ who seem to have adopted an aggressive approach to what they call ‘jihaad’.

 

First there is no clarity on who the enemy is? Is it the civilians or the government? I ask this, as usual the targets of these ‘mujahids’ are innocent civilians.

 

Secondly, the perceived results of such acts of faith are rather ambiguous. I mean what do they hope to achieve from suicide bombings? ……. pissing off the worlds super powers and what are their bargains? :confused:

 

I am no fan of America. And as much as I’d love to see their empire fail, I can’t help it but to think that the very people who are fighting against Americanism are as a matter of fact helping them.

 

Not only, does the killing of innocent civilians contradict the Islamic teachings it also makes things worse for the Muslims Ummah. A hadith of the prophet (saw) advised us “do not to be delighted by the actions of anyone until you see how he ends up”

 

A swift glance at the post Sept. 11 Muslim world indicates that these so called ‘mujahids’ are in the practical sense striving against the cause of Islam –peace.

 

We have Mr Bin Laden to blame for the fall of the Taleban regime (not ideal but better than most). More damagingly, these heroic acts of terror (if I may call them that) has given the very enemy of Islam a perfect excuse to wage war on the Muslim world and at the same time help America serve its personal interests :mad: :mad:

 

The recent incident involving the suicide bombing of a holiday resort has lead to a more ferocious treatment of the Palestinian people at the hands of Israel. In a sense, this stupid act of heroism also constructed some proof for Americas speculations regarding terrorists in the Horn of Africa.

 

 

Finally, these risen or is it ricen producers in London couldn’t have immerged at a more perfect timing. Just as the British government is debating it’s new (and not so friendly) Immigration policies and the war on Iraq. Our ‘heros’ plan a perfect scheme to (erm..ahem) perhaps upset Western control over affairs of the world (best my little brain can come up with- sorry).

 

The only perceptible result of this plot is more hostility towards Muslims, arrests of several Muslim men, declined public opinion of Muslims and ethnic minorities and a set back for all those truly striving for the Islamic cause. I am sure Blunkett is feeling rather smug at this moment in time. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Now, my question is. How do we the average Muslims deal with such a bizarre and confounding situation?

[Thinkerman]

Finally, these risen or is it ricen producers in London couldn’t have immerged at a more perfect timing.

 

Na Mean.

 

 

Now, my question is. How do we the average Muslims deal with such a bizarre and confounding situation?

 

• Very Good question sis, cannot honestly say i have the answer or whether there is 'A' thing that we can do as such to counter act this situation as a whole.

I cannot honestly say that i agree fully with what your saying totally because essential you your position would be omitting the simple, but important factor that these muslims (whether you agree or disagree with their actions) are @ thw end of the day Human beings. And whilst they are pursequted (excuse the spelling) in their respective countries the will undoubtly retaliate, they shouldnt remain inactive whilst they face purseqution, Torture, humiliation from puppetary regimes sponsered by the west, America in Particular i beleive this is also what islam teach's.

 

However as you quite rightly pointed out by targeting civilians they do nothing but contradict Islam, and it becomes more of a personalised Vendetor against the west, Disbelivers etc etc.

 

For example the North Africans we have been hearing quite alot about recently in the news. Am sure you are quite aware of the 13 yr long civil war in Algeria, its cause and the role france played in it, the fact that its Metro system (underground) was bombed in the late 90's etc etc.

 

These ppl dont do these acts under the banner of islam. its just that the media, and this is crucially important (( Especially in the current context )) will simply label any person of middle eastern or muslim Background, caught in such acts as an islamist, or islamic terrorist??

Islamic Terrorist, surely the term is contradiction in its self for anyone with the slightest knowledge about islam.

 

Now, my question is. How do we the average Muslims deal with such a bizarre and confounding situation?

 

That is indeed the question u asked and they way i see it (perhaps it maybe abit too simplified and crude for your question) is that any of these contiued news reports that you see on the Media, whether it be bbc that 'objective' insttitue of reporting , or the various broadsheets that are printed in this country, well simply ignore them for @ best the seek to highlight muslims as only being Terrorist, backwards, etc etc.

 

Instead Just stick to what you can do, and wha is most efective. Reading the quraan and following the sunnah of our rasulluh (PBUH) as closely as you can, becomw more knowledgable of our deen and what it says about all matter, including this unfolding drama (( because this is not the first time this has happened in history to the muslim Ummah )). As an average muslim we should strive to attening this position so that we become a good exmaple to those disbelievers in this country. So that they might have some chance of seeing through the Misty propaganda that pours from every mediam in this country

 

Thats my peace.

 

Ciao

[shyhem]

AMEENAH

Finally a sister who is making sense.Most of us the muslims have let our emotions led us to hasty generalization and not to mention poor judgements.We're indeed way too obssesed with jewish or Israelis to the extent we can longer function as normal people.We have become a nation paranoid citizens that start every conversation with the israelis this and the jewish that.

 

Its good to stand for u'r rights but if that will cause more harm than benefits than it ain't worth it.

Prayers are helpful but prayers alone won't do us any good.It's time for self reflections,its time we as muslim ummah tried to be rational in our thinking.

Screaming at the top of our voice "down down down USA " in the streets WON'T TAKE US ANYWHERE.What we is need is good leaders not a self proclaimed leaders like saddam,the saudi kings&queens,hosni mubrak or the warlords in somalia.

[Armstrong]

First of all Salamu Alaikum to all,

 

Not for one minute will the real Mujahidiin condone the act of killing anyone or thing except for a just cause such as the killing of a murderer, adulterer (if married), homosexual (if caught in the act), the apostate (one who leaves Islam) and Qitaal to make the word of Allah supreme. As we are taught in the diin, only fight if they fight you for the sake of Allah not for a flag or nationalism.

 

The root word of Islaam is 'Salama' denoting peace by submitting and surrending to Almighty Allah. As most of us understand, the real Mujahid or Mujahida is one who is fighting with

himself/herself. In that I mean, fighting his/her own evil desires, trying to pray more, wearing the authentic hijaab, being in a state of Taqwa and Ikhlaas and enjoy the good and forbid the bad.

 

Walaahi, just the thought of a day when the children would be grey, and the mother would give birth and leave her newborn, when the sun is brought near up to the head and the fire is brought near should be enough of a detterant to engage in badness. And the promise of overflowing gardens, thrones set high, cushions, pearls and gold, young servants serving us, wine, fruits of all kinds, and fulfilment of all desires like sitting next to The Messenger (SAW) and the real joy of seeing 'The Face of Allah' should be our goals to achieve and we should initiate the action of performing good deeds for the sake of Allah to get admission to eternal happiness and satisfaction.

 

Anything not done according to Quran and Sunnah fails. Look deep into yourself and just be concerned with yourself until you can call yourself a proper practising Muslim. Meanwhile, pray for our brothers and sisters and do what you can to help them, send money, raise awareness of their situations and etc.

 

 

Ya Allah ! Set Bait Al Maqdis free, help all Muslims who are oppressed and give us victory both in this world and in here-after - Amiin

 

P.S. Sorry for digressing from the topic but that is my piece said :cool:

 

 

 

Mujahid over and out !

[Valenteenah.]

Darling,

 

This is a juicy topic, which I'll have to come back for, insha Allah.

 

Mujahid:

 

Look deep into yourself and just be concerned with yourself until you can call yourself a proper practising Muslim. Meanwhile, pray for our brothers and sisters and do what you can to help them, send money, raise awareness of their situations and etc.

That's good advice bro.

[N.O.R.F]

salaama calaycum,

 

interesting topic, i agree with every one of u guys, a strong ummah needs strong unity, we should all be working towards achieving this unity and using it as a vehicle in achieving our objective and helping those who have more extremist views to join us and disown them, remember at the end of the day allah (swt) is the judge!

 

insha-allah this will be soon! ameen!

[Blessed]

Shujui!

 

Bro, I didn't say that we or any muslim should sit back and allow humuliation, prosecution etc. My point is that these people who are claiming to be fighting under the banner of Islam ( Bin Laden, Xibu Allah etc) are in fact using counter-productive methods.

 

Like Shyhem said, we have no leaders and we have no unity... so why creat problems for an already fragile nation? Surely, if you are planning a mass attack on the enemy ..... should at least take time to think about the out-comes of your actions..... how will bombing a hotel resort in Kenya help the Palestinians in Gaza?

 

 

As for the media... Most people can actually see through all the propaganda. You know what they say, any publicity is good publicity. I got this letter from an islamic publication the other day... apparently since Sept.11 the number of inquiries regarding islam has more then doubled.

I think it also shows 'moderate' gaalo loving muslims.. what ppl think of them. Hopefuly, this should give us more reason to unite!

 

 

 

Salaams Mujahid.. Long time bro

 

>As we are taught in the diin, only fight if they fight you for the sake of Allah not for a flag or >nationalism.

 

Thank you! But most muslims fight soley for their countries and not only that; The majority of so called muslim states support gaalo over muslims to serve their financial interests.

 

What is interesting, is that they use the 'islamic brotherhood' when theyget into trouble. As we see in Iraq.. for years Saddam killed and totured muslims. Now he is claiming that his ex-best friend America is attacking him beacuse he is a muslim... what a lax!

 

 

 

>Anything not done according to Quran and Sunnah fails. Look deep into yourself and just be >concerned with yourself until you can call yourself a proper practising Muslim. Meanwhile, pray >for our brothers and sisters and do what you can to help them, send money, raise awareness >of their situations and etc.

 

True that, good advice... We should all be striving for to do just that ..... In sha Allah.

 

Ya Allah ! Set Bait Al Maqdis free, help all Muslims who are oppressed and give us victory both in this world and in here-after - Amiin

 

Amiin, walaalo Amiin!

 

 

Barwaqo,

 

Until then my sweet qumayo

[Baashi]

"Rag hadaad colowdaan asaad ciidan badan weydo Hadba waxaad ku ciil bixi kadho yaa kuu cawo adduun ah" Overpowered and overrun by his rival tribe, Somali poet once lamented. He meant anything will be done to exact a revenge!

 

Ameenah, Abaayo the law of the jungle follows a simple logic and that is to survive u have to struggle. If u elevate that logic and apply to states, religions, and nationalities then u would have to just accept the fact that pure instinct takes over.

 

U either sing the songs of John Lennon and start imagining a world of no wars or Rag waxuu ku xaali jidhey yaa kuu banaan and that is "Lix halkaad ku joogtaan dagaal laabta ka ogaada. Hadii luqunta leydin jadho lugaha meermeersha"

 

What terrorist gained is more defeat. They facilitated the implimentation of long planned strategy. Having a military bases in all oil rich Islamic world, US have to thank them. Ur point is well taken but I will assert that would have happen no matter what according Neoconservative thinkers led by Wolwovits (did I spelled right)..He issued that paper in 1991.

 

The Point! Well powerfull nations have nukes and they like to be sole owners. Nukes effectiveness is measured in human lives...that is how many lives can it take per seconds and how much destruction can it bring upon the target. They will not hesitate to use it if other nation had done to them what Palestine had endured and had to put up with. Hizbullahi you mentioned as if they were a terrorist organization. They want to be left alone and they think of themselves as freedom fighters..others disagree they called them terrorist! Horrors at Shatila were not broadcast around the world as sept 11...victims were both civilians but one had a nation that cares about them and the other helpless warriors.

 

Who will write the histoty and whose value should be propogated? That is what is at stake. Bush said civilized nations will write the history and it will prevent Evil doers (meaning ?) to have any say in that. Bush's logic is simple and his Neocons articulated in the so called 'preemptive doctrine' and his religion just confirmed its support and issued a justification for his effort the so called 'Just War' manifesto.

 

Your premise is flowed (I said that with respect sis Ameenah) because American Entreprise Institute had been talking this way before that oval day. It just strengthened their hand.

 

Almost all convictions and moral standards agree that civilians should not be harmed in any way. That will happen only when all civilians are protected. When powerfull nations protect theirs and disregard the fate of other civilians...reactionery elements will strike back.

 

In his famous essay 'The Moral Equivelent of War' William James talk about war and its moral.

 

History is a bath of blood. The Illiad is one long recital of how Diomedes and Ajax, Sarpedon and Hector killed. No detail of the wounds they made is spared us, and the Greek mind fed upon the story. Greek history is a panorama of jingoism and imperialism -- war for war's sake, all the citizen's being warriors. It is horrible reading -- because of the irrationality of it all -- save for the purpose of making "history" -- and the history is that of the utter ruin of a civilization in intellectual respects perhaps the highest the earth has ever seen.

 

Those wars were purely piratical. Pride, gold, women, slaves excitement were their only motives. In the Peloponesian war, for example, the Athenians ask the inhabitants of Melos (the island where the "Venus de Milo" was found), hitherto neutral, to own their lordship. The envoys meet, and hold a debate which Thucydides gives in full, and which, for sweet reasonableness of form, would have satisfied Matthew Arnold.

"The powerful exact what they can," said the Athenians, "and the weak grant what they must." When the Meleans say that sooner than be slaves they will appeal to the gods, the Athenians reply, "Of the gods we believe and of men we know that, by a law of their nature, wherever they can rule they will. This law was not made by us, and we are not the first to have acted upon it; we did but inherit it, and we know that you and all mankind, if you were as strong as we are, would do as we do. So much for the gods; we have told you why we expect to stand as high in their good opinion as you." Well, the Meleans still refused, and their town was taken. "The Athenians," Thucydides quietly says, "thereupon put to death all who were of military age and made slaves of the women and children. They then colonized the island, sending thither five hundred settlers of their own

.

 

Bush envokes God and so often said he is doing a humanity a favor by getting rid of the evil doers and forcing them to accept our values. Do u see how history repeats itself.

[Baashi]

disregard this.

[StarGazer]

I'm sorry I couldn't read all of your responses on this very important, relevant and HOT topic. Partly b'coz I just got in from work.

Ameenah my dear sista, firstly Iska waran? Good I hope.

 

"How do we the average Muslims deal with such a bizarre and confounding situation?"

 

As others have previously mentioned, I truly believe acquiring more knowlege about the deen will help better comprehend what's going on in the muslim world. That said, I'm angry that I don't see many Imaams, Sheikhs, or Muslim activists questioning the actions of these few extremists who seemed to have hurt the Ummah more than help. I liked what Shyhem stated: "Most of us the muslims have let our emotions led us to hasty generalization and not to mention poor judgements" Sure we're frustrated by the fact that we're (muslims)constantly being bashed by the media while our brothers n' sisters from many parts of the globe are suffering at the hands of the Kufars. Why is it that we pick n' choose to senstionalize certain countries or regions in the muslim world n' ignore others, ex. Palestine over Kashmir,Bosnia, or even the drought in Ethiopia. Islam knows no color or race and we should equally care about ALL about our bro/sis. If we want to start caring about our "image" then we ought do something about it. Don't get emotional over it and rot hating America 4 life. What am saying is start questioning about intentions towards the general Ummah. Do you get angry everytime Islam/muslims are lashed out at b'coz you feel humiliated or do you really care enough to make a difference as a muslim by stopping the ignorance that exists within the community.

Please excuse any run-on sentences or typos, maybe I shouldn't be writing when am this tired. But I couldn't resist

[RaMpAgE]

ameenah nice topic..

But i wanan ask you can u tell me who are these terrorists u refer too?

First of all no body is a terrorist, alot of these so called terrorist are people who simply

opose what the , is that a crime , after all anit they ie americans and allies saying this is a democrate world where anyone has a freedom of speech? when a muslim person opose what they are doing hes automaticly a "TERRORIST".

 

since 9/11 i don't think much has changed, palestian was/still occupied, iraq is still under sancations, and the rest of the muslim countries are all disfucntional. but alot of good has come out from 9/11, alot of non muslims strated to learn more about islam and embrace it aswell, and the unity which they had is falling apart.

 

We have Mr Bin Laden to blame for the fall of the Taleban regime (not ideal but better than most). More damagingly, these heroic acts of terror (if I may call them that) has given the very enemy of Islam a perfect excuse to wage war on the Muslim world and at the same time help America serve its personal interests

Osama this osama that is all i hear, but iam 100% sure that sheike osama had nothing to with terrorism, he only spoke the truth by telling muslims its time to stand and realise this can't go on any longer like this , hey atleast someone is trying to motivate the sleeping muslims.

 

Now, my question is. How do we the average Muslims deal with such a bizarre and confounding situation?

The way we deal with these bizare situation is too work hard in knowlege wise and our religion as a individual.But the most affect method is educating islam to the non muslims and that islam is not as its portraed in the media.

 

sorry if i was too long . but thats how i view this situation

[Samafal]

Hi! Ameena How u doing. Interesting topic I must say, and one, which needs to be debated and discussed. First of all it should be clear for every Muslim that Islam do not support terrorism and if any one do so then the action counts non Islamic. Our Prophet SAW whenever he sent armies to war his advice always has been ‘ not to kill innocent people, not to kill any one who does not fight you and not to harm people in religious worship Jewish or Christians they are. I don’t know who can authorize these kind of acts of killing innocent people after our Prophet (SAW) and the Muslim leaders who followed after him (RA)

 

Originally posted by Ameenah:

[QB] Those of you living in the UK (and other parts of the western world) are properly familiar with police discoveries of yet another terrorist cell in London and other parts of the UK.

Judging from the latest news flashes it appears that the only criminals out there are Arabs (North Africans), Jamaican gunmen and the odd freaky white dude- but they don’t count

 

Ameena all these so far proved to be only allegations and no body in particular out of those people arrested have been convicted. I believe most of these arrests coincide with the much desperation of the Tony Blair to convince his public attacking Iraq. It so hard to believe whatever we read in British Newspapers. Remember that Algerian man arrested after September 11 , they said that he was member of Alqaeda and jailed him for several months but afterwards proved to be fake allegations.

 

 

Originally posted by Ameenah

First there is no clarity on who the enemy is? Is it the civilians or the government? I ask this, as usual the targets of these ‘mujahids’ are innocent civilians.

Secondly, the perceived results of such acts of faith are rather ambiguous. I mean what do they hope to achieve from suicide bombings? ……. pissing off the worlds super powers and what are their bargains? :confused:

 

In Islam decisions are made by the Sultan (Ruler) of the Islamic State. Since there is no unity in Muslim world and there is no Islamic State in place, self appointed individuals take things in to their own hands mostly out of anger without looking in to the real Islamic standpoint. In that situation it is not clear for them who is the enemy or how to tackle them and they resort to the terrorism.

In my view we know who is the enemy, America and its likes do not want Islamic State and they will do everything in their power to prevent that materialise. For us to defend our Faith and dignity we should go back in to our Diin and work on ways we could unify ourselves under one umbrella and build a Islamic State which protect the Muslim Ummah from oppressors and invaders. We have to be clear that Jihad will always be necessary to defend our faith otherwise there will be many mosques destroyed as Allah Subahannah tells us in this Ayyah ( I haven’t got its proper translation) Suratul Hajj ‘ wallawlaa dafcullahi naasa bacdahum calaa bacdin lahudimat sawaamicun wamasaajidun yudhkaru fiihaa ismullahi’, .

 

We most of the time question America its acts of terrorising muslims a basis of which I can understand but it seems to me very lame argument. America are Kaafirs and they will never like us peaceful we are or not as Allah explained to us in His book but we have to reconcile all our actions we undertake with the Holy-Quran and do Justice to humanity and we should not let our emotions over react and overlook Justice.

[Haashim]

Originally posted by Ameenah:

[QB]

 

Sis, Ameenah It's interesting topic and many Bros & Sis gave their views.

 

Your not the only confused muslim we're all in different extends confused about the muslim issues perhaps as Shyhem and yacquub pointed out lack of real leadrship. but as far as i know in my short experience neither america nor israel needs an excuse to do whatever they want to do. simply because america is the most powerful country of the world and israel is the next!

 

there are so called an excuses and even these excuses we hear from their media so we don't know weather it is true or not.

 

 

 

We have Mr Bin Laden to blame for the fall of the Taleban regime (not ideal but better than most). More damagingly, these heroic acts of terror (if I may call them that) has given the very enemy of Islam a perfect excuse to wage war on the Muslim world and at the same time help America serve its personal interests :mad: :mad:

Originally posted by Ameenah:

[QB]

 

 

to be honset, untill now i suspect who is behind the sep. 11 attacks, I DON'T KNOW AT ALL and we may after 5, 10 or 20 years hear that unexpected side was behind these actions.

 

 

The recent incident involving the suicide bombing of a holiday resort has lead to a more ferocious treatment of the Palestinian people at the hands of Israel.

Originally posted by Ameenah:

[QB]

 

 

I wonder if israel ever halted the killing of palestinians or needs an excse to launch air and missile attacks on everywhere in palestine, the only thing we can say is this is the revenge of the Israeli massacre in Gaza and other palestine cities and towns.

 

having said all taht i agree with you that there are many muslims who don't know even what they want let alone how they can achieve it. and we as a muslim could become victim of their irresponsible acts.

 

............................................

 

MINEEY FATUURO FIIQ TIRAA NINKII FADHAA ASMAA FAYOW

[Blessed]

Oh I say, yous lot have had a field trip with this one :eek: Not exactlt the reponse Ive anticipated. But man sha Allah I see some really good feedback .... can't say much more .. just finished work and me wants to go home and get some food .....

 

 

will be back though,

 

[Blessed]

I almost forgot about this topic

 

 

Seems like some of you have understood my opinon as being anti-jihaad and pro American. Allah forbid!

 

 

Basically what I was saying, was that some muslims are misguided to the believe that terrorism is the way forward for the muslim community. Though, I understand that many of us are left with no other choice but to resort to desperate measures. What these brothers fail to see is that terrorism / or what ever you call it ... is counter-productive and as we are witnessing making matters worse for the muslims.

 

 

Muraad n Rampage

I too have my lil theory about Bin Laden but I won't share it with ya'll... my mates reckon I been watching too much 'crime films'. If it was him, then Allah help the brother.

 

There are some groups that advocate jihaad n turn their back on muslims when it comes to the crunch.

 

And coming back to your Q. Rampage. A terrorist is someone that instills fear on others to achieve a political solution. Bush n Blair are the biggest players at the moment, only their form terrorism is some how legitimated by 'International Laws' ... made by whome and for who.... Allah knows. The iorny of it all was that 'terrorism' was introduced to the world by the ppl who now claiming to 'fight' it.

 

 

Basshe,

 

Islam is not about following your instincts though is it? The Prophet of Allah (saw) was himself mistreated by the gaalo. But, he (saw)

didn't run arround killing innocent ppl ........

I think we can learn alot about our history!

 

 

Tamina,

 

I hear ya. We are a some 'reactionists' I must admit. It hard to ignore something when it is staring at you in the face. But, I guess what we are all saying here is ... to educate ourselves about Islam.... I hear that. Remember :

 

 

 

"Allah does not change the Condition of people, untill they change themselves"

 

 

check this out:

 

http://www.harunyahya.com/32terrorism_main_soc05.html