Profiteers, too, fight government in Somalia

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Castro:

 

War is profit and this one is no different. The loot many mention around here is mostly barren lands and demolished homes worth a pittance. (Homes and land whose pre-Afweyne owners may claim were ill-gotten to begin with.) Where is the

real loot that all these men, women and children are being bombed for? In Iraq, it's clearly the oil. What is it in our case? Foreign aid? Regional hegemony? Access to sea ports? Resource mining?

What utter BS! So the fight to dominate Mogadishu for the past 17 years was merely all about bringing benevolent rule there? And where the hell do you come with a sweeping statement like 'mostly barren lands and demolished homes'. WTF. I've never seen so much concentrated crap in a single one of your posts.

 

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

 

You can add to the facts saxib that entire sections of Muqdisho was flattened in the early 1990s, thick forest had grown in entire sections of Old Xamar and no one lives there.

 

Also, if it is about property that people in Muqdisho want to keep, they wouldn't have supported the ICU which had an islamic platform, and which would require everyone to give up any loot. It is notewrothy that many properties were returned to those who went back in the ICU days. My own mother was on the waiting list to recover her land, a land onwhich someone built a small home. Illegally built homes on other people's property were destroyed in Kaaraan district. The sheekh was on BBC talking just about that during those old days of the ICU.

 

These individuals on SOL with the "LOOT" monotonous comment know where the looters are: In bed with their clan president and he loves them, among them Qeybdiid, Yalaxoow, Qanyare and the rest of Muqdisho crooks.

What the hell does whether a structure remains have to do with receiving your just property - property includes land and buildings.

 

And in the 6 months of ICU rule - little was done on this front. Presumably you would've thought the ICU would start with their own leadership on this front let alone ordinary citizens if they had credibility. Oh oh - I better stop short of mentioning the dreaded I-word.

 

Looters are everywhere - on the TFG side, in Puntland and Somaliland, in the diaspora. And for sure there are many looters dying to hold onto their ill-gotten gains in Mogadishu today.

 

I must say I like the deflection of 'you(TFG) have looters too'..... Yeah - I can't argue with that. But it seems you can argue against(or minimize) the looters in Mogadishu with nary a reasoned argument much less logic.

 

PS - A sincere advice - stop bandying about 'clan president' unless you want to have that thrown back in your face.

[General Duke]

the past few weeks, these profiteers have been teaming up with clan fighters and radical Islamists to bring down Somalia's transitional government, the country's 14th attempt at ending the free-for-all of the last 16 years. They are attacking government troops, smuggling in arms and using their business savvy to raise money for the insurgency. And they are surprisingly open about it.

 

Omar Hussein Ahmed, an olive oil exporter in Mogadishu, the capital, said he and a group of fellow traders recently bought some missiles to shoot at government soldiers. Taxes are annoying, he explained.

Taxes are annoying, he explained. They really are and they are coming.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by peacenow:

It's not from the IHT its from the NYT! Agreed, this article is pure diversion. It serves no purpose. The guy who wrote it, is not even a proper NYT reporter. He is not constrained to check his facts and sources high enough. Rotten tricks.

 

Would nominate this post to be deleted. It serves no purpose, other to misinform.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/jeffrey_gettleman/index.html?8qa

 

Check that out and email him for his 'fact-checking'. It's better to investigate rather than making ****** statements. Or better yet stick to topics like Somali gays etc.

[General Duke]

These people can cry all they want the people who lost out on their properteis, those who have not looted are on the majority and they will win in the end.

[Fabregas]

So, these people are all dyind and resisting to keep the alleged looted property?Then why raise this property to the ground with weapons fron North Korea? Clearly, this is very bad economics, no?

[NASSIR]

The loot profiteers benefit from is not limited to household properties alone but holding national properties, as well as resources and infrastracture for the past 16 years. It will be difficult for someone to give up "the diamond of our national belongings".

[Xoogsade]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

 

I must say I like the deflection of 'you(TFG) have looters too'..... Yeah - I can't argue with that. But it seems you can argue against(or minimize) the looters in Mogadishu with nary a reasoned argument much less logic.

 

PS - A sincere advice - stop bandying about 'clan president' unless you want to have that thrown back in your face. [/QB]

I must have touched a raw nerve to draw such emotional pleas from you, and to me to stop calling the lowlife warlord for what he is: A clanist bigot who represents only a minority as corrupt as he is.

 

I don't need to comment once more on the facts in my previous posts. The record of the ICU is there and it will take another decent group of somalis to do what they did of justice and community service. Where there was peace, there is chaos today, where the children who came from as far as London went to school peacefully in Muqdisho, to learn the culture and islam, where women celebrated their newly found security from the ruthless warlord's taxation, rape and robbery, where there was beach gatherings for the returnees, where the people pursued education, where somalis who suffered from the trangressions of their fellow somalis opened exclusive schools for their community, to teach their young girls to walk high and reclaim the equality somalis denied them for generations, today, there is genocide perpetrated on behlaf of the maniac called A/Y who is happy to see the above mentioned acheivements by the ICU gone and replaced with permanent fear, death and destruction. This what motivates the people who are fighting, to reclaim their dignity, security and safety, to eject the filthy Xabashis from their homes and live as free as they were born and as brave a real somali unlike the stooges.

 

Dee nin yohow, wixii odagaas dulliga taageersan waa isagoo kale.

[Jacaylbaro]

Sheekadii ma Pro TFG iyo Pro wax iska caabin baa loo bedelay ??

[Peacenow]

The article has already been blasted and comprehensively rebutted. No need to go into further debate on the merits of it.

Quite frankly, I'm disappointed with the NYT. It has been against what is happening in Iraq, consistently. What little very precious column inches they devote to Somalia. They have used lazy assumptions that toes the Bush line.

 

My original post, still stands, this post, serves no purpose other than to misinform the people and should be deleted.

[Ana_Juwa2]

Those who contribute such misinforming articles should be ashamed of themselves.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

quote:Originally posted by ThePoint:

 

I must say I like the deflection of 'you(TFG) have looters too'..... Yeah - I can't argue with that. But it seems you can argue against(or minimize) the looters in Mogadishu with nary a reasoned argument much less logic.

 

PS - A sincere advice - stop bandying about 'clan president' unless you want to have that thrown back in your face.

I must have touched a raw nerve to draw such emotional pleas from you, and to me to stop calling the lowlife warlord for what he is: A clanist bigot who represents only a minority as corrupt as he is.

 

I don't need to comment once more on the facts in my previous posts. The record of the ICU is there and it will take another decent group of somalis to do what they did of justice and community service. Where there was peace, there is chaos today, where the children who came from as far as London went to school peacefully in Muqdisho, to learn the culture and islam, where women celebrated their newly found security from the ruthless warlord's taxation, rape and robbery, where there was beach gatherings for the returnees, where the people pursued education, where somalis who suffered from the trangressions of their fellow somalis opened exclusive schools for their community, to teach their young girls to walk high and reclaim the equality somalis denied them for generations, today, there is genocide perpetrated on behlaf of the maniac called A/Y who is happy to see the above mentioned acheivements by the ICU gone and replaced with permanent fear, death and destruction. This what motivates the people who are fighting, to reclaim their dignity, security and safety, to eject the filthy Xabashis from their homes and live as free as they were born and as brave a real somali unlike the stooges.

 

Dee nin yohow, wixii odagaas dulliga taageersan waa isagoo kale. [/QB]

Raw nerve? Hardly my boy. It's that I was, uncharactersitically, very shrill - after a day where poor reasoning was everywhere on SOL and off it.

 

I like how you didn't address any point that I made with regard the loot. You go on and on about ICU and your perception of their record. NOT the issue. But obviously on that score you have nothing to offer.

 

As to my point - of your repetition of A/Y as clannish. It is neither here or there and he is hardly alone in that. And if you want the debate, such that it is with the nonsense you posted, to degenerate into 'you're clannish' , 'no, you're clannish' - stop injecting clan into this. This is not the ccnversation of thinking adults if you care to engage in that.

[Socod_badne]

ThePoint,

 

What loot?

[ElPunto]

SB - don't worry bout it

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

SB - don't worry bout it

I'm not worried at all. Just trying to get to the bottom of this looting reference you and others constantly harp on. It's bizzare fixation because the looters are always some amorphous group who own undocumented looted properties and the two factors are, allegedly, conspiring to keep the civil war going (a civil war that didn't start in 1991 by the way). But where is the compelling evidence for this?

[Xoogsade]

^ ThePoint is telling you that the rape of somali women in Muqdisho, their massacre, the destruction of their homes, the dismemberment of their kids, their displacement, all done on behalf of A/Y whom he is related by blood are justified. Wherever you read "loot" on SOL, it means: "I am for all violence, death, destruction and displacement visited upon clans of Muqdisho who don't hail from Puntland. I am for the tigre army doing what I always wanted to do but couldn't, and out of bitterness I support them, out of hatred I come out and accuse the victims who are not related to me by blood to be "looters"".

 

 

It is that simple.