The specch of a leader in the making....!

[General Duke]

Xoogsade, brother I hope no hard feelings we are only exchanging viws, I do respect your opinion. So by all means stick around.

 

Juma, thanks for the kind words, I will forward them to the whole family, Alhamdulilah everything is ok and we are very much pleased.

[Jamster]

Duke being a father! the boy will be a soldier. Keep it up man but don't make him a soldier; he will avail benefits more being an intellectual warior.

 

Amir or Amira

[Gabbal]

HORN -

 

Since Abdiqasim Salat is the best hope for Somalia, I'd like to know what good he brought for Somalia? What schools he built, what hospitals he refurbished etc. In essence, 'waxtarkiisa' as El Presidente..

It's not as much as what had done, as much as what he could have done had he been given half the chance. From the get go, way before his inaugration, there were obstacles and oppostions that he neither deserved nor warranted.

 

Here you have Abdulahi Yusuf, from the beginning, calling people to oppose the good fruits that were emerging from the Arta reconciliation. What did the reconciliation conference in Arta do to deserve that political harassment? Did Abdulahi Yusuf and his qabqablayaal peers (the warlords around the country) feel threatened that Arta was mostly ignoring the warlords (the accepted "powerbrokers") and instilling power in the traditional leaders? As Abdiqasim came to a hero's welome in Xamar, the warlords'(around the country) sense of being threatened turned to outright fear. Fear of losing the control, prestige (however infamous), and respect/fear they held over their domains and those affiliated with their domains around the country.

 

Let's look at how things happened. Mudane Abdiqasim Salad Hassan was legitimately chosen the president of Somalia, while mudane Jaamac Cali Jaamac was legitimately chosen, by the Puntland issims, to be the president of Puntland State. THOSE democratic processes were a condamnation of DEATH to the qabqablayaals and their control of affairs in their regions.

 

The qabqablayaals (chief among them being our senile current president) could not tolerate the sweeping changes affecting the country. The scrap merchants in MOGADISHU flexed the muscles they had accumulated during the long years of anarchy and held Abdiqasim at bay in one small area of Mogadishu. Their counter-part in PUNTLAND, backed by a small branch of his laf, was ready to go to war against Puntland and mercilessly sacrifice all that the people had achieved just so he could contain the democratic powers of the Isimo and continue his iron-fisted rule in the region.

 

In both cases, sadly but courageously, the democratic defense backed down because of their honorable wish of safe-guarding the peace.

[Jamster]

Oh so, just like if you could have been given the chance you would save Somalia huh! it seems, from the outset we are playing the game of 'if he had been'; you know what, Abdulqasim didn't fail because of the AY but indeed because of his inability to tame the wild dogs of Mogadishu. You see, the only reason he came to the power was he belongs to such herd and such he would be able to tame his brethren. But that proved to be nothing. AQ was a weakling has been who neither had the power nor the will to not throw the bone for these dogs. He was given options by his fellow brethrens and indeed unfailingly he succumbed to their political tinkering. Such is his record that a lot of good hearted people hold him responsible for the failure of his government..

[Gabbal]

Abdulqasim didn't fail because of the AY but indeed because of his inability to tame the wild dogs of Mogadishu.

Someone didn't even read my post :rolleyes: The only thing that brought Cabdulahi Yusuf in an Abdiqasm picture is because of my comparison between what had transpired in Muqdisho and Puntland in the same time frame.

[Sky]

man this is just a speech of a man talking to his clan. not an attack on others, after all he's just a man with a clan. and he says that his clan should build on their own land and develop it instead of running to muqdisho and build outside the clan domain or even risk losing everything again to the thugs like in 1991. he also talks about the pain he felt as a clansman when he saw his kinsmen die in the civil war. this is a very intimate speech to his clan that reflects what a smalltimer he was in 2000 compared to now.

 

this whole speech is a minor example of how he was successfull in mobilizing the northeastern somalis into unity against a 'common enemy', in this case c/qassim and the rest of the thugs. this is the kind of talk somali people expect from a leader. without this kind of approach to the people, he would never be able to stay president after jaamac cali jaamac was elected, the people knew what a slime jcj was. it was jcj who turned it into a omar-osman battle, while it was not. it was a proxy war orchestrated from c/qassim's desk.

 

the insults, that's his problem. but i think the people he directed the insults at had it coming.

[Emperor]

He we go again, as if Juma knows better.

Sxb are the civilians in Garowe, Qardho and Bosaso just to mention few not accounted or is it that they were brutally murdered By Yeey hence it makes it legal and justified

Sxb every body knows what happened there, Again Puntland is not like the streets of Madina, Bakaraha or Abduqadir beebe's controled Area(thou I have no idea where is that) everything is counted for, and for your information during the entire confrontation of A.yey and Jama and then Adde not many died(on the scale of Somali wars), Alhamduliah praise be to Allah. The other thing your are forgetting is the real fight never happened in the cities, whether you say Qardho or Bosaso that's a fact. Most of it happened a place called Dhuudo which was open Area with even no trees let alone Hooyoyin iyo Caruro. It was only men, two armies one led by a former General called Adde Muse(Current Puntland leader) the other was another Colenel Yey. So where is the genoside you talking about tookplace?

 

Answer my questions bro:

 

If his attempt was a genoside against clans why would'nt he do it when he drove the other army outside Puntland Areas and camptured Bosaso, Qardho and Garowe as you mentioned because he was in power untill he was elected Somalia's top leader by none other than your lovely, brave good leaders. Surely he could have done it, he had full control of all Puntland after Adde's were in Ceelafwayn, no one witnessed mass murder in those cities why?.

 

My next question, If he was killing, fighting with cilivians or as you say was direct attack on specific clans, we know Puntland problems was solved through negotiations, why neither civilians nor particular clan was involved on this nogotiations of both sides, it all came down to the Army General with Army Colonel and their two armies recieved well each other with their technicals even. neither clans talk and nor civilians talk involved - and Where did you get the impression this man had always had problems(Committing massacre) with civilians and against specific clans.

 

The killing of numerous individuals who oppossed his rule and policy are therefore inconsiderate to you I gather. And for all that listed above by LSK, though he is rying to make it norm and moderate. , is not to be considered as crime against humanity to you Qorshel I wonder.

Nop Sxb, don't get me wrong at all, indeed they are crimes but not as bad as bombing Hargeysa or looting and then burning an entire city like Dhoobley or even kindnapping 4 year old kids as hostages in Mogadisho.

 

You should know the difference between crimes, if you are saying crime is just a crime no matter how small big it is fair enough, then never mention how big serious crimes the man commited just treat them all as same.

 

Am all honest with you, good reasons should be there, It's logic for a man to fight with another man of his level to gain some political/economic or power. For this matter Yey committed "crimes" for fighting against another army for killing rather big and poweful individuals (Traditional or Army leaders) who he felt threatened, It's crime ofcourse to do such thing but if you are not denying it's all commonsense. But let me ask what is the commonsense behind burning a city or bombing Hargeisa!!!! Political gain?? economical gain? oah yeah let me just not mention events of the hopeless Mogadishu!!!!! This for sure he hasn't done it.

 

But Sxb, if you have anything present it, I will try to be open minded as much as I can, and take your points, you never know they might change my views and consider him the man who commited genesides, but I doubt you have?

 

Nop im not paing this saint picture of him, but my words are simple and understable

 

 

Being sensible is best way to lie....

 

 

Aside the topic: Congrats to Duke too, thanks Juma for clearing up this - but what an amazement. Juma and Duke know each other, and im not sure but somehow related for real, If im not wrong I saw few times calling one to the other abti...LOL BUT WHAT A CONFILICTING VIEWS. God help me, between them happens heated battles on this forum, political(Shall I say personal) asassinations. This reminds of UK PM Blair saying " I have seen 14-15 years old kids who are extremelly intrested and have huge passion for politics, that was suprise to me" and then went on saying " I don't know whether this is a matter that we should be happy or worried about?"

 

LOL, Same thing boyz, astonished as I am, sometime I said to myslef is progress achieved, and then paused for a minute thought this could be not only different opinions of politics but that Cudur of Somalis is in the working - and then wait a minute still the family terms and qaraabo harmony is there ....

 

Well, I don't whether to be worried about this or not.... I find good reason to employ and qoute PM Blair's question on this occassion and ask:

 

" I don't know whether this is a matter that we should be happy or worried about?"

 

Please share on what you think you two Duke and Juma and the rest as well.

 

Hope is all politics but domestic issues and family values are still there.....

[wind.talker]

RAHIMA -

 

Abdiqassim Salad gave up the 'power' to rule a couple of Mogadishu neighborhoods. A truly remarkable achievement. Should we enlist him in the Somali Political Hall of Fame (to perhaps enjoy the same aura of respect Md. Adan Adde enjoys)? Yet, I wonder if he would've readily given up 'real' power - say, if he ruled all of Benaadir Region, would he give that up for some other 'president?'

 

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

Education, business and entrepreneurship are all at their peak.

Mogadishu is at its educational and economic 'peak' now? SXB, all progress must be rewarded but to say that Mogadishu is at its BEST today is not only an insult, but it is also foolish. Aside from the enterpreneurship of a margin of the population, the rest of the natives live a daily life where armed thugs control the streets. There is nothing close to semblance of law and order - so how can it be at its 'peak'? Generations of children are growing up with the sounds of bullets and missiles etched into their earlobes.

 

No, bro, only an ignorant man would claim that Mogadishu is at its 'peak' today. Mogadishu was East Africa's brightest star in the 1980s - today, its one of the most dangerous places in the world. Let's not kid ourselves with coffee shop pride.

 

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

It's not as much as what had done, as much as what he could have done had he been given half

the chance.

Given the chance, even I 'could' have done something. Speculation doesn't bring results, bro. 'What could've been' shouldn't be placed on a man's political resume.

 

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

Mudane Abdiqasim Salad Hassan was legitimately chosen the president of Somalia, while mudane Jaamac Cali Jaamac was legitimately chosen, by the Puntland issims, to be the president of Puntland State. THOSE democratic processes were a condamnation of DEATH to the qabqablayaals and their control of affairs in their regions.

The Arta Initiative was a failure because it sought to 'empower' the powerless - civil soceity. That's a highly unrealistic goal. The warlords pulled out of the talks - and honestly, I supported the Arta government before Abdiqasim Salad's interior mental design implanted itself on the Somali political arena. He focused on dismantling Puntland and the RRA administration more than creating an administration for Mogadishu itself. Why? Jama A Jama - although elected by 'some' members of the Issims - didn't have TOTAL legitimacy for the Puntland leadership. You'll have to remember that some Issims caught on to Jama A Jama's close relations with the Arta folks and openly declared their support for an extension of Col. Yeey's presidency. The Issims, in effect, were divided between Col. Yeey and Jama A Jama.

 

I'm still not convinced a man of Abdiqasim's character is the 'best choice' for Somalia. Why launch sneaky political attacks on peaceful places such as Puntland and RRA-controlled areas (Bay and Bakool)? You'll have to remember that he succeeded in dividing up the RRA and look at what you have today. Different branches of RRA are always fighting in Bay Region. How can that be classified as a good (esp. when you realize it was Abdiqasim's sneaky tactics that led to the intra-RRA rivalry)?

[Sky]

walaahi some people heer need to get educated about the dooshbag c/qassim, this what people whom encountered him said about him:

 

- he's a notorious groper of women

- while somali men were on the front in ethiopia fighting the xabashi, c/qassim was accompanying barre's wife in xamar, they were seen shopping together

- he embezzled money in every ministry he worked in

- he had a disastrous relationship with everyone in each ministry he was minister of, to a point he needed to be transferred from ministry to ministry.

- he stole millions of dollars in the sugar factory in jawhar together with the other baboon galaydh

- he was the only somali ever to be a minister an an influencial member of a rebel group at once in the late 80s begin 90s as minister of interior he supported the usc

- there were three wings in the usc, the wing that wanted to kill the guilty members and intellectuals of the D-tribe, the ones who wanted to expell the D-tribe from 'their land' and baasta and the last was a combination of both, c/qassim belonged to the last one.

- c/qassim fled for his life for caydiid when caydiid was killing many ambitious usc members

- c/qassim became 'president' in carta, djibouti and used that title to wreck more havoc in already troubled somalia

- c/qassim damaged the peace in puntland and the rra areas, rra is becuz of him divided in splintergroups

- c/qassim fueled the war in the south by supporting the alien militias of his subclan in shabeelaha hoose and south muqdisho and also strengthening the alliance in kismaayo to keep opressing the innocent for financial gain

- c/qassim, after millions of petrodollars and 4 years gets humiliated by his archenemy c/yussef

- c/qassim is a rebel to c/yussefs government, stirring up the people in xamar to make it harder for c/yussef to do his job

 

 

that this boy still walks freely flabbergasts me, let alone people seeing him as the 'last hope for somalia'. com'on enough with the jokes.

[General Duke]

" I don't know whether this is a matter that we should be happy or worried about?"

 

Brother all is not what it seems. Juma and I are close relatives, neighbours and friends. We have known each other forever and all you get in SOL is the unusual extension of our relationship but with the gloves off.

 

We share a difference of opinion regarding the current political situation of the nation that we belong to. This I believe is a good and healthy state to be in. Even though he is my cousin he should not always support my opinions especially when he thinks they are wrong. On the other hand I try not to make it too easy for him here; to get the best performance out of talented individuals they must always be kept on their toes.

 

To answer your question I believe that most Somali’s have become politicised or show dire symptoms of intense clan affiliation the only remedy to this in my opinion is normalising the situation back home so instead of just supporting clans they can be busied with the affairs running their lives.

[General Duke]

double post pardon

[Jumatatu]

Qorshel you are going in circles, u admit yet you say he did not commit atrocities. Tell you what we will expand on that once u come to realise you are lying to yourself.

As for my relations with Duke sxb, it is no secret, and it is not as you perceive 'sidi in aan toreyo isku heysano'. We disagree on certain aspects and its implementation, but we agree on the primary objective that Yeey should remain President for the sake of dynasty of Mudug to continue.. .

 

 

Sky:

- while somali men were on the front in ethiopia fighting the xabashi, c/qassim was accompanying barre's wife in xamar, they were seen shopping together

Warya what is with you and your adeero Yeey about wifes. He, Yeey, was on for about five minutes in the speech about how he knows C/qasims wife and you here say he toook Barre's wife to shopping. War hedhe isku xishoda oo xaasaska gobta hadalkoda ha kenina.Mida kale Marxumka marki aad xuseysid magaciisa waxaad tirah 'Xooghayah Guud ee XHKS ahna Madaxweynaha JDS' marka aad intaas tirahdiid waxaad xijisa "Allah uu Naxaaristo'.

[J.Lee]

Originally posted by Duke_Valantino:

 

MsWord, wonderfully confusing as ever, she states the

Garowe and Qardo

as example of massacres, when and we have some people from those places here dear. The question is do you people even know the meaning of the word?

Could it be that you're confusing yourself for there wasn't a single sentence in my previous post, and you can quote me if you find evidence to prove your claim, in where I stated Garowe and Qardho are examples of a massarcre.

[Emperor]

Juma

Qorshel you are going in circles, u admit yet you say he did not commit atrocities

You are not presenting any evidences here sxb, Are you. I gues qof walba tiisa ayaa kuqafilan

 

As wise Somali proverb says " Ninkastaa qumanisa qoorta ugu jira"

 

but we agree on the primary objective that Yeey should remain President for the sake of dynasty of Mudug to continue..

'Xooghayah Guud ee XHKS ahna Madaxweynaha JDS'

LOOOOOOOOL Nice one

 

How on earth could a communist party go with a democratic government. Walahi Somalia meel walan bay ahayd, Sxb check this - Xisbiga Hantiwadaaga Kacaanka Somaliyeed(XHKS) and Jamhuuriyada Demoqradiga Somaliyeed... that was amazing runti, kafaa'idayso labadaba and then apply your own dictatorial rule....Fantastic Somalia we had

[General Duke]

You are asking for evidence, hmmm I guess the attrocities that took place in Qardho, Garowe and Balanbal(late 70's and early 80's) aren't enough evidence for you miyaa?

Forgive me sister, for wrongly implying to you the use of the word massacre when you clearly stated “atrocities†I must have been some where else. Now care to share with us the evidence which you have regarding the atrocities of Garowe, Qardo and Balanbale which President Yusuf allegedly committed?