Times discussions on Somali Pirates

[Somali Pirate]

ashkiro,

 

the piracy issue is certainly a somali issue. but you cant deny the fact that it;s related to puntland region. it's pretty obvious that puntland gains alot from pirate money. that's just facts and in no way labels clans are the root cause.

[Allamagan]

^ Its not Puntland anymore it is Pirateland. Watch this vid

[NASSIR]

The truth is that America's foreign policy in Somalia is for the anarchic choas to continue unabated. It's a policy outlined by the Clinton admintration after their humiliation of the Restore Hope program.You can easily see the context by which this policy comes into a full view for all to see and read by their actions.For instance, they support and acknowledge the TFG's legitimacy, yet they are reluctant to helping it build its Navy, trust its capacity or even assist local admins' security apparatuses. . Instead, the money is forwaded to a special mission program known as ATLANTIC, which clearly violate Somalia's Sovereignty.

[Allamagan]

^how can small seven or eight million somalis can claim ownership to such a vast land and huge territorial waters? sxb, justice has to be done and whats better time than now when Somalia is beyond salvage. Sorry to say but quite frankly we are under the hammer (auction)...sooon to be gone (history) lets face the reality.

[Che -Guevara]

Originally posted by Mintid Farayar:

 

I'm still waiting for the Puntland "Amiin" corner to propose some solutions on this thread instead of the reflexive my clan is better than your clan response.

At this stage, does it really matter?

[Somali Pirate]

Originally posted by Allamagan:

^how can small seven or eight million somalis can claim ownership to such a vast land and huge territorial waters? sxb, justice has to be done and whats better time than now when Somalia is beyond salvage. Sorry to say but quite frankly we are under the hammer (auction)...sooon to be gone (history) lets face the reality.

truly unfortunate when i share the same ethnicity like you. give up. lie down and accept as you put it the auction. you should have been a kurd.

 

a stateless kurd.

 

don't even call yourself a somali

[Duufaan]

yaa soomaalida iyo marayka ugarnaqaya? ilaahaw adaa naleh. can you punish somalis to behave? can you teach them not to mess with the only frustrated superpower? defenitly not. let us see the end game. the four pirates has frustrated A merica.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Somali Pirate:

quote:Originally posted by Allamagan:

^how can small seven or eight million somalis can claim ownership to such a vast land and huge territorial waters? sxb, justice has to be done and whats better time than now when Somalia is beyond salvage. Sorry to say but quite frankly we are under the hammer (auction)...sooon to be gone (history) lets face the reality.

truly unfortunate when i share the same ethnicity like you. give up. lie down and accept as you put it the auction. you should have been a kurd.

 

a stateless kurd.

 

don't even call yourself a somali

Somali Pirate, thank you for answering him. The statement from that physically-Somalian guy has really got my blood pulse running so fast, out of furry and anger!

 

My grandfather, may Allah have a mercy on him, used to say, "Af aan igu oolin edbintiisa ayaa i dhibtay."

 

As for the topic, the war at our seas is a legitimate one that requires our total support in defense of our national resources. The powerful countries should know that we can wage a lasting insurgency at sea with the minimal force in our disposal. The fact that we don't have a viable government to protect our resources doesn't mean that we can't stand up to the big theives who are exploiting our resources.

 

Yes, we can protect our seas without a government!

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Piracy emerged following the collapse of the Somali government in 1991. With the government gone, European ships began dumping millions of barrels of toxic waste into the ocean off the Somali coast. At the same time, illegal trawlers began fishing Somalia’s seas with an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year, depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen. Following the 2004 tsunami, hundreds of rusting barrels washed up on shore leaking toxic and nuclear waste with more than 300 people dying. Through interception with speedboats, Somali fishermen tried to either dissuade the dumpers and trawlers or levy a “tax” on them as compensation. In an interview, Sugule Ali, one of the pirate leaders explained “We don’t consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits (to be) those who illegally fish and dump in our seas.” Inevitably, due to economic conditions in Somalia or greed, some fishermen eventually took to piracy for their own financial benefit. The western powers are the terrorists. The NYTimes is a propaganda organ for the elites. Get US out of Somali waters.

 

^^Here i found alle ubaahane lecturing about the root causes of piracy

It seems AU has become a bit predictable here. I thought I was more harsher than that. By the way, the following is my official take that I previously presented to a large crowd of Americans in one of the major Schools here, but sorry that I can't insert the Powerpoint for technical reasons:

 

Intro:

Somalia locates on the Horn of East Africa,

 

Population: 9 to 11 millions (U.N.)

 

Land size: 246,199 Square Miles, comparable to the State of Taxes

 

GDP: $4.597 billion (2004 U.N. est.)

Ethnic: Somali,

 

Language: Somali

 

Religion: Islam 99.9%

 

Coastline: 3,985 Square Miles

 

The marine resources include seabirds, whales, whale sharks, and various dolphin species and turtle species offer promise for ecotourism,

 

Question: Anarchy As Degradation: How does the absence of government in Somalia contribute to the depletion of marine resources?

 

(Again, can't insert the chart here, but will show a depiction of how the sequence of factors were feeding into one another)

 

Central Govt. collapsed

In 1991

• No coast guards to

  protect resources

• Attracts global fishery

  corporations

• Creates an open

  Access & overfishing

• Adverse impact on the

  local fishery industry

• And finally, the advent of piracy

What the so-called U.N. says, in thumbnail:

 

In section XVI, article 300 of the General Provisions of the convention, it states: “States Parties shall fulfill in good faith the obligations of the assumed under this Convention and shall exercise the rights, jurisdiction and freedoms recognized in this Convention in a manner which would not constitute an abuse of right.”

 

Also, in Article 194 (1), it clearly affirms that “States shall take all measures necessary to ensure that activities under their jurisdiction or control are so conducted as not to cause damage by pollution to other states and their environment, and that pollution arising from incidents or activities under their jurisdiction or control does not spread beyond the areas where they exercise sovereign rights in accordance with this Convention.” Source: U.N.

Justifying my position from the literature point of view:

 

On Moritaka Hayashi take, a Waseda University Lecturer, contends that the “existing legal instruments are not adequate in dealing effectively with the current challenges to the management of deep-sea fisheries.” (Moritaka Hayashi).

In another occasion, critical to the loopholes in the Law of the Sea, he suggests that new measures are required at the international level since the current provisions are imperfect and can’t address the future challenges.

However, in Somalia’s case, there is no government, which means the society, not the State, does not have the economic “resources” to control its territory. (Anthony Vinci).

Pictures: Oh, I can't even insert them here. Someone should tutor me how to use this website when it comes to loading files, pictures or documents! But the pictures were showing Men laminating a barrel of toxic waste which ended up on shore, likely dumped in the Indian Ocean just off the Somali coast by an unnamed European nation. However, The consequences of these chemical dumping in the coast of Somalia has led not only environmental devastations, but they have also effected the health of locals, especially communities along the coast.

 

Chart: Can't even present it here, since the system doesn't enable me so. But it was showing the how the cycle of exploitation were contributing to the decline of fish catch over the years.

 

The Geopolitics Factor (What is missing here are my elaborations and reasons that enhanced my case):

 

• Ethiopia is landlocked and wants to gain access to the Somali Coast

• Somalia and Ethiopia have unsolved border disputes

• The geopolitics of the region is one with security dilemmas

Economic terms that I utilized to explain my contention from sustainability point of view:

 

Carrying capacity : This issue is apparent as the degree of ecological damage has arguably become irreversible.

 

Imposing restrictions: This tackles the open-access issue and accommodates some conservational measures to take place.

 

Intergenerational Equity: It is hard to address this when the current generation are suffering and have no incentive to preserve anything for the future generations.

 

The tough part of my research in terms of quantifying the resources lost in this exploitation were the following:

 

• Since there is no monitoring, no one can estimate the monitory value of what is lost, nor the environmental degradation.

• Lack of international support to address the plight of the local fishermen, (EU, UN and U.S. are only concerned about the security of International Trade)

 

Policy Recommendations

 

1. Enforcing the God damn laws of the UN to protect our seas,

 

2. Promote property rights,

 

3. Empower the locals with the means to safegaurd their interest in the sea,

 

4. Environmental protections,

 

5. And finally, minimizing the regional meddling.

 

(P.S. I wrote a small pamphalet about the subject of 30 pages and will surely post online as becomes available, Inshallah.)

 

Xiin's approach is an internationalist one, but for that, I only need NYTimes, NPR or the establishment view to inhale a doze of his solutions. So, Xiinow, let's celebrate our diversity in views!

 

 

]

[Alle-ubaahne]

http://www.alternet. org/story/135716/

 

"Pirates' Strike a U.S. Ship Owned by a Pentagon Contractor, But Is the Media Telling the Whole Story?"

[Mintid Farayar]

Like I predicted earlier, this got really ugly and it's going to get a lot uglier for a lot of Somalis...

[NASSIR]

Originally posted by Allamagan:

^how can small seven or eight million somalis can claim ownership to such a vast land and huge territorial waters? sxb, justice has to be done and whats better time than now when Somalia is beyond salvage. Sorry to say but quite frankly we are under the hammer (auction)...sooon to be gone (history) lets face the reality.

I hope it doesn't happen. The Obama admin seems to be taking a different strategy from the Clinton's

 

----

Monday, April 13, 2009 WASHINGTON — The U.S. military is considering attacks on pirate bases on land and aid for Somalis to help stem ship hijackings off Africa’s east coast, defense officials said.

 

The military is also drawing up proposals to aid the fledgling Somalia government to train security forces and develop its own coast guard, said the officials, who requested anonymity. The head of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command said the successful rescue of an American captain held by Somali pirates could lead to more violent acts by pirates, and people familiar with them agreed. "This could escalate violence in this part of the world,"

 

Navy Vice Admiral Bill Gortney said Sunday. Pirates are holding about a dozen ships with more than 200 crew members, according to the Malaysia-based piracy watchdog International Maritime Bureau.

 

While piracy is common off Somalia, crews have seldom been harmed.

 

Source: Star-Telegram, April 13, 2009

[Somali Pirate]

i think even though america used the element of force yesterday, they do recognise the root causes of piracy. There was that report on senate committe on somali piracy. So there is hope.

 

Strength the government in somalia. Help them build security personnel and train somali coast guards to not only protect somali waters from foreigners but stop piracy too.

 

I sincerely hope america does help get somalia back on its feet. Remember guys sometimes america does see things differently than the rest of the world

[Ashkiro]

^Your dreaming kiddo, to hope the very exploiters of Somalia to help 'save it."

[Somali Pirate]

i don't think america is the type of country that allows its companies to illegaly fish or dump toxic waste in our waters.

 

The american central command have alot of pragmatism and see the situation of piracy as one born of injustice.

 

It's european and asian companies that exploit somalia. Even china wants to get into the action.

 

Right now i trust american more than europe and asia when it comes to somalia.