President Riyaale and his not so publicised history!

[Qudhac]

Sooyaal

 

you are describing a fantasy world, this wasnt a fantasy were no one gets killed this was war, and lets not forget the SNM killed less than fraction of what the brutal regime that they trying to get rid of were killing, The SNM purpose was not to killed people unlike siade barre govenment but of course in war it is 100% certain that people will be killed its unavoidable.

 

why did Nelson mandella and his ANC kill alot of innocent people to get rid of the brutal facist regimne. look south africa now, look Somaliland now so does the end justify the means with certanty it does.

 

 

but if people are saying we should tollerate evil and let the killing go on then, then thats typical appologist, thats how alota bosnians were massacared cos there were typical appologist saying, "lets not do anything cos people might die"

 

 

thats how saddame gased alot of people cos there were bunch of appologist saying the same thing.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Mobb_Deep:

 

I believe Morgan is a criminal who

massacred innocent people while he was the head of the military in the north. He did whatever he could to win the war and his killings were done indiscriminately.

Mobb his killings were not indiscriminate but were especially targeted at some SOMALILANDERS but we are making progress. Most of us are just thankful for the ones that survived his cruelty and there are documents available that show what his plans were and the way his house was left untouched shows the destruction was not indiscriminate as it might appear.

 

 

Originally posted by Mobb_Deep:

This is the crucial moment I and many nomads on this site have been waiting for na'mean.

We all wait for your clear answers calmly ...

Mobb you have answered one of my questions but you still have not touched the second. I'll put it to you for the third time and as many times as I can till you cant duck no more:

 

Can you explain once and for all what you meant by "this bull about genocide and mass graves"

 

In the mean time, I TAKE BACK the claim that you believe Morgan is "innocent" and wait for answer to the question above.

 

 

Originally posted by Mobb_Deep:

I am gonna send a complaint to the admins. this is getting nastier than I thought.

While you are at it, please remember to to tell the ADMIN that someone called Konweyn a suspected murderer and accused me of being at a marfish. :cool:

 

 

Hornafrque

Apologies mate that was not call for. Next time correct my SP before you misquote me, will ya?. :cool:

 

 

Originally posted by Sophist:

Morgan is as criminal as Ina Mire, Ina Kaahin Habane and Dhagaweyne. Let us not be blind guys. If you think these men are not criminals then don't be astonished when people ACTUALLY say Morgan isn't a murderer but indeed a hero for the Somalis--just like these men are heroes for their kinsmen.

Sophist the SNM was much more than those individuals and included teachers, doctors,poets, musicians, journalists etc who had the courage to fight Siad's regime. All of those men risked lives and limbs for nothing other than to end the brutal Siyaad regime and they all have my gratitude. The likes of Fuad Aadan who we know lost at least a brother against SNM don't make the outrageous claims being made by Mobb Deep. If the SNM was only about qabiil war why did they stop when Siyaad's regime fell and why did they not do what the USC did when captured towns? Why would the SNM spare the likes of Riyaale when they caught him if they were killing everyone who was not their clan?

 

Sophist if check 'pictures from Puntland' thread there is more than one picture of Morgan in there and its time for Morgan's PR men to come out of the woodwork and defend their actions.

 

I don't no, one can compare the SNM to any anti-Siad movement and let alone MORGAN.

 

Sophist how many times have said Maxamed Cabdallah Xassan was your hero? Was it because he killed thousands of innocent Somalis belonging to other sub/clans than yours?. He is your hero in spite of his brutal history against other innocent people I think because he fought against the colonist , and I call all those SNM fighters who fought the just war my HEROES.

 

love , peace and nafaqo.

[Curly]

Okay I’ve had enough of this dim-witted childish argument!

 

Everyone has already expressed their thought on this topic, you can’t force feed people your opinions…no matter how right you think it is!

Nor should you go around offending other people with immature banter, about tribes and other discriminative views that have obviously been warped for the gains of other people.

 

Mobb deep I hope you realise that you’ve managed to offend me greatly and I'm sure you’ve also offended many other people on SOL whose families have been major contributors to SNM and have died for a cause they believed so strongly in. I can’t believe that you’ve compared good God fearing individuals who have lost their lives to protect their families and others to drunk and intoxicated sick individuals who get off on seeing others suffer and will do anything to gain power and status!

 

But hey that’s just my opinion!

 

Lander okay I admit I have been a little hasty to believe articles solely on face value but I still think that Riyaale was undoubtedly apart of this regime we separated ourselves from, whether it was a huge role or a tiny role! And for us to have him as our leader is pure hypocrisy.

 

And I think what I'm trying to say is that it’s funny that us Somalilanders are so eager to demean the non-Somalilanders and call them warlords and savages when asked to unite but they’re not savages and murderers when they’re asked to lead us. (It doesn’t make sense at all!)

 

Personally I’d like to see a united nation one day…but with all this ridiculous senseless discussions about a matter that should either be dead and buried like the people or confronted and resolved in an unbiased fashion, I doubt we will see us united any time soon.

 

And if that's the case and neither of us can fix the problem then Allah is the judge of all judges and everyone will get their just desserts in the hereafter!

[N.O.R.F]

^^^Sue, if i told you that the sky was red, that i hate football, that Tony Blair loves us, that Bush was a good samaritan, that birds dont fly,,,,etc etc,,,u would'nt believe a word i said and should'nt give me the time of day,,,,,try practicing this same method more often, namean,,,, :rolleyes:

 

We all know what the SNM were about and what they did to rid us of Siad's dictatorship and anyone who believes that the SNM were not there for a specific liberating purpose, has been brainwashed, simple as that mate,,,,,

 

Ppl lost loved ones on both sides,,,,,,

[sadeboi]

Mobb deep I hope you realise that you’ve managed to offend me greatly and I'm sure you’ve also offended many other people on SOL whose families have been major contributors to SNM and have died for a cause they believed so strongly in. I can’t believe that you’ve compared good God fearing individuals who have lost their lives to protect their families and others to drunk and intoxicated sick individuals who get off on seeing others suffer and will do anything to gain power and status!

[/quote

 

 

Offended you?????????? wow abayoo why start a topic that you know people will express their opinons and then say they have offended you??

good God fearing individuals who have lost their lives to protect their families

If that was the case why is The self-proclaimed state of Somaliland governed by the person who was head of the The Siad Bare secret service in Waqoyi???? Who had the same blame for the killings in waqoyi that took place 1988.

 

Remember the you guys will always be part of Somalia not matter what you guys call yourself

 

SOMALI-land= the land of the Somalis :confused: right? That what it means i mean i think its spelled like that.

 

 

But hey i don't really care if you guys become a state or not. Cano iyo malab hadi aa kaahelaysiin

be your own country...

[Rokko]

Sue, I am glad ya are voicing your feelings about this subject in a civilized calm way.

 

Sue, walaal, we are all human beings and when I mention the SNM, do ya honestly think I believe every single SNM soldier who fought against Siyaad was there to kill innocent people or was a tribalist consumed by hate? That defies logic. I would never think that na'mean. I am very sure there were many fighting for the right cause with taqwa in their hearts na'mean.

 

I was just making a statement against the murderer minority who took away the lives of innocent people in the name of "MUJAHIDS". Many of these criminals were doing exactly what Siyaad Barre was doing to the people.

 

Sue, your good family's struggle against the monsters like Morgan and his father-in-law was about getting rid of evil and not glorifying or denying other's suffering as many on this site like to do. Your family's suffering is not synonymous with the word SNM either walaal because many murderers calling themselves SNM did heinous crimes your good family would never comprehend na'mean.

 

The SNM name was a broad name used by many people for different reasons na'mean. Nowadays the name SNM word has also become the favorite word for the tribalist and those who are nostalgic about the past crimes againt innocent people. It is probably a different word now from what your father and mother were used to. That is why not many Somalilanders emphasize it too much.

 

Sue, I am sorry if ya misunderstood my comment. I didn't mean the way you took it. My message was only targeting the criminals who were part of the SNM struggle na'mean.

 

AYOUB, to Maskiin Macruuf, it is bull when the genocide against his family is denied or down played by others while always talking about other genocides. I believe the worst genocide occured in Bay and Bakool and it will always be the ugliest Somali tragedy no matter what anyones says. That is why I thought he is tired of this bull because I would be tired of that also. Thanks for taking back your "morgan is innocent" comment against me na'mean.

 

word.

[AYOUB]

^^^Mobb no hard feelings I hope and apologies to all for some of the language I used.

 

 

Back to the topic

 

Originally posted by *Pessimistic-Sue*:

I admit I have been a little hasty to believe articles solely on face value but I still think that Riyaale was undoubtedly apart of this regime we separated ourselves from, whether it was a huge role or a tiny role! And for us to have him as our leader is pure hypocrisy.

I agree with Ameenah on this one if he was good enough to be Vice-President then I think its a bit strange for the opposition parties to be making all fuss now because he was in the same government when Silanyo was Finance Minister and at the elections I think the people’s decision was not based on Riyaale’s past. Maybe if Silanyo took this moral stance earlier more people would have done the same at the elections.

 

Originally posted by Ameenah

I'm not a great fan of the UDUB administration, not because of whom it’s run by … but because of the sheer idiocy of their policies

I second that. Although some members of this administration have done a lot with the little available to them, others have done more damage to the point I started questioning their aims. Let judge all members of this admin by what they are doing now not by suspicions we have about their past. Having said that there are a few characters in this administration that might - as the boys in blue might put it - 'help us with our enquiries'.

[Saxardiid]

Originally posted by Qudhac:

Sooyaal

 

why did Nelson mandella and his ANC kill alot of innocent people to get rid of the brutal facist regimne. look south africa now, look Somaliland now so does the end justify the means with certanty it does.

sxb citing too much SNM propaganda and although you sound honest about what SNM did during the civil war, you giving them too much significance. i don't know where did you get the information that says ANC win because of their sabotage activities. on contrary that hindered their cause what they did win was their good leadership unlike SNM. Now ANC runs their country down from the president but where is the SNM .

 

but if people are saying we should tollerate evil and let the killing go on then, then thats typical appologist, thats how alota bosnians were massacared cos there were typical appologist saying, "lets not do anything cos people might die"

surely there are other ways to get rid of the dictator other than kamikaze type attack of populated cities and killing civilians to gain political ends.

[lol]

Mopp: Markada waaye sxb.. shinida iska dhici hee.. abaa aniga waa ku fiirinooyaa lee!

[Qudhac]

sxb citing too much SNM propaganda and although you sound honest about what SNM did during the civil war, you giving them too much significance. i don't know where did you get the information that says ANC win because of their sabotage activities. on contrary that hindered their cause what they did win was their good leadership unlike SNM.

I never said it was their savatage atacks only that help the ANC defeat the facisht goverment but it was part and parcel of their campain, as for giving the SNM too much credit am not sure were exacly i did that, other than stating the black and white fact that the SNM got rid of a dispotic and babaric dictator in the current somaliland, as for propaganda i would once again kindly point out exacly which of my argument is a propaganda piece if not please argue base your argument of factual information rather than trying to pull something out of the hat to win the argument.

 

 

Now ANC runs their country down from the president but where is the SNM

when SNM took cotroll of somaliland they could have easilly kept it themselves like the southern groups did, but here is where i think the SNM excelled even more than their millitary achievements, they handed control back to the civilian administration, rather than just ruling it with an AK47 like so many others did, so to answer your question of where are the SNM now, the SNM were civilians like everyone else who took arms to get rid of an dictator, when they achieve this they became civilians again and gave power back to the people.

[LANDER]

Sooyaal,

I'm tired of this chit chat about the SNM, admiting people died at the hands of SNM seems to be an invitation for those who hold gruges against them to propagate their own misinformation. I previously stated that SNM slashed throats which is somewhat of a graphic depiction of trench guerilla war fare. Let the truth be known and be told so that those of you who would like to run their name through Mud hear this too. They killed the SNA (Somali National Army) for the most part and specially the leadership of the SNA. Alot of times they spared the common foot soldiers who where just following orders, and sent them to other movements such as the USC. Was it a crime to kill those SNA soldiers? most certainly not, it was a war declared on them by the Government and not only on them but their families and their entire Qabiil. SNA ranged in its composite qabiils, but the foot soldiers where ordered to eliminate a common Qabiil etc etc....need I repeat all these historical facts? If so I would be glad to give some of you a few links to read up on the history of the SNM. I notice some who are against the SNM are chit chating based on emotional testimony you might have heard from somebody whitout any substancial facts. The SNM where warriors based on qabiil, they were not politicians and where not ment to run a multi-qabiil entity such as Somaliland. That is why they voluntaraly dismantled, and the republique was established run by a civilian government. Some of you opponents have never wondered why the SNM is held in MUJAHID status among its folk, meanwhile everyother somali movement is either forgotten or liked to be forgotten by its own. The SSDF was beaten into submission by Barre and there was apparantly some understanding among elders based on common clan lineage that followed, the USC achieved its goals of topelling the government but than turned on its self and blasted each other into oblivion. I won't judge the any of these movements, I am simply refuting the historical facts. That being said, can any of them compare to the SNM?ask yourselves where would Somaliland be today whitout the SNM? Where would the SNM's qabiil be today? would they share the distinct honor of being the first major somali clan to be virtually extinct? Problem with you folks who talk of matters such as this is that you really don't know how to relate to others. You are quick to judge everything and perceive matters through your own selfish eyes. Try to put yourselves in the shoes of others for a change and please tell me what answers you come up with. What should have the SNM folk done? should they have never picked up arms to defend their own? if so who would've stopped Barre from pillaging and raping through their land? Would you have volunteered to rescue them?

 

 

May Allah have mercy on the soul of all those who died in somali conflicts.

 

May Allah accept the deeds and forgive the sins of those who died fighting with the SNM, outnumbered and outguned they achieved a bitter victory for their freedom.

[Rokko]

Originally posted by LANDER:

Problem with you folks who talk of matters such as this is that you are quick to judge everything and perceive matters through your own selfish eyes. Try to put yourselves in the shoes of others for a change and please tell me what answers you come up with.

Good point Lander. Let me see if this applies to you as well. Here is some raw info you won't hear from your families.

 

 

WHO SUPPORTED SIYAAD WHEN PUNTLANDERS WERE BEING MASSACRED?

 

Fact: when the SSDF was fighting Siyaad, guess who was waving the flags for Siyaad? None other than the Northern states. 40% of his army stationed in Puntland was made of people from the North. Most of the generals who were ordering the killing of innocent people, the destruction of wells, the systematic rape in Puntland were originally from the north. It is written in the history and the people of Puntland haven't forgotten the blantant support Siyaad enjoyed from the Northerners.

 

 

Fact: At the height of the SSDF struggle against Siyaad, the Northerners used to call the people of Puntland, Mahbar, kulmis, fallaago etc. Their trucks bringing goods from Mogadishu never used to Stop puntland states if they could. Many of the truck used to over-turn because of the high speed they were trying to achieve in order to get out of this area. Puntlanders used to hate the ruthless commanders than Siyaad. Talk about support for Siyaad.

 

 

HOW DID SSDF CEASE TO EXIST?

 

Fact: SSDF was mostly weakenened by Ethiopia's claims to the Somali areas the SSDF captured. We all know the conflict of Galdogob when the Ethiopians raised their flags and the SSDF was extremely offended and the subsequent fight that broke out which left thousands of Ethiopian soldiers dead. Since that fight, the SSDF was doomed to fail, Abdullahi Yusuf was jailed and couple of his commanders killed by the Ethiopians. They never recovered and they saw no clear mission to fight against Siyaad na'mean. Internal conflicts developed later on and everyone was leaving one by one. They just dissapeared into their families.

 

 

WHO BROUGHT DONW SIYAAD BARRE?

 

Fact: Siyaad actually defeated the SNM and destroyed the cities they invaded killing innocent civilians regardless. Civilians were not spared by both sides. Somalilanders still debate whether it was a good idea for the SNM to have invaded civilian cities.

 

 

Fact: If the Somaliland camp claims that the SNM weakened Siyaad, then the SSDF, the most powerful and organized rebel group (Dhafoorqiiq) ever to face Siyaad Barre's Army must have done more damage in weakening Siyaad than the SNM because this rebel group fought like a nation fighting another nation in broad day light at the country side facing the most sophisticated and organized Somali army. The battles of Balanballe, Galdogob and close to Galkacyo are something Siyaad Barre's army still talk about. They enjoyed a popular support from the Ethiopians unlike the SNM which the Ethiopians actually kicked out of Ethiopa after Siyaad signed a treaty with Mingistu to kick them out which the Ethiopians agreed due to lack of any SNM successes in the battle field. The SNM sneeked into Hargeisa and Burco because they had no where to go since Ethiopia wasn't willing to shelter any more rebels. They didn't face any battles at the country side before they entered the cities. Tey just walked in unexpectely because there was no defense around the cites. Most people say the SNM actually made Siyaad Stronger because he destroyed the cities the SNM was getting the fundings from eventually giving him more grip on the North. If anything, the credit goes to the civilians in Hargeisa and Burco who faught better than the SNM.

 

 

Fact: The USC alone, not the SNM, ended Siyaad Barre's regime because they were successful in causing a chaos in the nerve of his administration: Mogadishu. By the time Caydiid came, all of the North was in Siyaad's hand. The only thing different was just that thousands of civilians were massacred and the cities destroyed. Nothing else. Some very few SNM extremist were running around in the country side in the North making a hit-and-run attacks on trucks travelling on the roads like they were doing before they invaded the cities anyways. Most of the SNM fighters gave up and returned to their homes by the time Caydiid came to overthrow Siyaad.

 

 

Facts are facts.

[Liqaye]

^^^^^

Ladies and gentlemen the topic has gone off track and has sidelined what the poster wanted to see, but it shows somaliland has gone through it stage of political virginity when everything was silanyo this SNM that, Ina kahin those...e.t.c.

 

My faith is that the SNM as an organisation and rebel group was head and shoulders of ALL other rebel groups both in their conduct of the guerilla campaign and in their post war administration and in the guurti system they pioneered which to my mind shows alot of political acumen, and a group that actually thought out what it expected from the the post war somali situation [ that it was a republic of somaliland is debatable] also that acts of revenge occured cannot be gainsaid.

 

My opinion is that if the other rebel groups had made such an attempt to be as rational and to premeditate their political platforms somalia would have missed out on what is going on now.

 

Intreasting how Caydiid has suddenly become such a geesi and tactician, or is the urge to win an argument over a somalilander so urgent that even the embracing of the bogeyman can be forgiven?

Yaab

 

As for the USC, it could not have done anything if it were not for years of guerrilla and conventional warfare in the north that sapped the power of siyaads autocracy dry.

 

Give credit were credit is due.

[Tuujiye]

Salaama Caleykum...

 

waa Ina baqti lagde ee aan labo eray iraahdo..

 

Mob-deep sxb wax ala waxa aad dhaheysid waan kugu raacsanahay..laakiin hal wax, nimankaan waa jiran yahiin maa iska deysid..please sxb..niman calamo wato waaye xarash u xoor..

 

waraada riyaale iyo moorgan ma is dhaamaan labadoodana sxb waaye..lacag eena ka sameeyaan doqomadan ayaga faansho..

 

somaliland ma wada aha dad xun.. hadase waxaa ugu xun kuwa oo aanan wiligood aadin oona arkin ama ugudanbeysay bari hore, dagaaladii ka hor..kuwaas waaye kuwa qabiil iyo waa nala laaye meel kaste lataagan..

 

siyaad bare alaah u naxariistee, qof uu cafiyey ma jiro, mana uusan dilin reer somaliland kaliya wuxuu dilay reer puntland because ayaga ayuu the most ka baqi jiray..everyone knows siyaad feared the most by his own "******* " clan..

 

So nin kaan sheekha wato waraa latag bax nac nac daada iyo waanala laayadaada..waxa hargeyso ku dhintay 1000 000 times more ayaa xamar ku dhimatay 2days gudeheeda..dhiiga somalida ku daatay xamar iyo meel kaste wuxuu la mid yahay kuwiina ku dhintay soamliland..

 

Cuqdo iyo qurun ayaa idinku wada jiro ee somaliland dad fiican ayee qabaan laakiin waa idinka oo kale waxa magaca xun siiya.

 

Somaliland in ee go'do aniga kama soo hor jeedo, maxaa dhacay hadii ee ku helaayaan nabad iyo xaq ha go aan..laakiin ayagii dhexdoodii ayaaba isku qayilaayo..we all know riyaale will not stay as a president and you guys hate him.. we all know the *********** clan will be treated as the lowest people in Somaliland as you could see how they have no power in the government of somaliland. so please don't act an angel and cry every were with your " we been targated crap" lots of people lots their lives in somali weather they have been targeted or not..

 

waraa nimankiina calamada waaweyn, lataga calaacal kiina meel kale because somaliya dhibaato waxaan ka weeyn ayaa heesato. dan yeesha ee waxbarta because waxaan aad sameynesaan waa jaahil nimo..

 

mob-deep sxb ragaan ha isku daalinin cudur ee qabaan oo wiligaa wax kama dhaa dhacaayo sxb..

[LANDER]

Originally posted by LIQAYE:

 

 

Intreasting how Caydiid has suddenly become such a

geesi

and tactician, or is the urge to win an argument over a somalilander so urgent that even the embracing of the bogeyman can be forgiven?

Yaab

 

As for the USC, it could not have done anything if it were not for years of guerrilla and conventional warfare in the north that sapped the power of siyaads autocracy dry.

 

Give credit were credit is due.

Liqaaye its called defeatist mentality, pathetic attempts at re-writting history that is well known to most others. Those who ran out of the north with their tail tugged between their legs are the only defeated cowards that spread falsified propaganda, maybe adeero Morgan is behind all this. I can't even respond to mobb because I wouldn't know where to begin, it might take all day quite the waste of time.