::.:: Islamic History ::.::

[Qac Qaac]

my other qustion.

 

who was the FRECHN CHIEF, who defeated the army of the amir abd ar-rahman Gafiqi and the muslims.

at the battle of Tours in France. conquest take ur best shot bro, i think u know.

 

i want the name

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

miz unique u answered first question correctly,however the prophhet(s.a.w.) said to ali on that dayi will give the flag to some one who loves God and his massanger,and God and hismassager love him

as for what God prohibited in that battle it was the eating of the donkeymeat.and according to ahlul sunah the temporary marriage(mut'a.qac qac i think the last battle was huniyn,i am not sure.

othe comments.

yfullah, bro becareful all the umayyad leaders were not all bad, Muwiyah the 2nd, was a buis person too, he only had the rule for 6 months. because he was so religious that he left the rule. so pls bro make sure u know ur stuff. don't be like so emotional like the muslims are shown on cnn. talking out of anger and look bad.

we are not talking about indivtuals here qac qac.we are talking about thier general policies and behaviours,were theypeople who followed the teachings of prophet (s.a.w)were theyeven the right people to lead the moslims?why did they legislated the cursting of ali and his family on the khutabas before omar binu abdi azizi?somany questions needs sasfactory answeres

[Kowneyn]

Sayfullaah:

 

Its unfortunate that many muslims don't realize that the sons of fatima bint rasuul scws are part of the diin. This house being the house ALLAH chose over all others and no salaat is complete unless blessings are sent on them.

 

Kowneyn

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

definitely agreee with u kowneyn.it is big unfortunate that many moslims and even moslim scholars did not understand the importnce of this exceptional family.the only family who are part of our diin.and as u kowyneyn said no salat is complete if we do not mention the prophet and his family in last tahashut.

some people compare ali with mu'awiye,other compare hasan and husien with yaziit binu mu'awiye.that so sad.why did muslims allowed banii umayat to curst ali and his family?did not they realise what we for sure know?or there alot hypacrocy going on?why did moslims seat back to defend hasan and husien?doesn't that indicate how umayat ruled the people with murders and irons. we have to think again about this,histroy is repeating itself once again.

the rules that umayat layed down is still practiced in large part of moslim world. and subsequently created the totaltrianism and dictatorship in moslim world.or can u say anyother reason why 25 islamic states all economicaly politicaly and militry backwrd?

i do not see.

we need to change the systems

[Nur]

Sayfullah Br

 

Salaams

 

you write a hadeeth that reads:

 

" I will give the flag to some one who loves God and his massanger,and God and hismassager love him"

 

 

Question:

 

Are you suggesting that this hadeeth implies that Ali Radiyallahu anhu should have been the first Khalif, followed by his children and the 12 imaams of the Shia?

 

Nur

[Kowneyn]

Sayfullaah:

 

Muslims will eventually come full circle to Ali karamallah wajhu and his progeny cs, by way of the last Imam.

 

Kowneyn

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

Salaams

 

you write a hadeeth that reads:

 

" I will give the flag to some one who loves God and his massanger,and God and hismassager love him"

 

 

Question:

 

Are you suggesting that this hadeeth implies that Ali Radiyallahu anhu should have been the first Khalif, followed by his children and the 12 imaams of the Shia?

bro nuur,

thanx for the question and i realy like ur posttopic,any way the hadeeth is absolutely clear sign or evidence of ali's karamalahu wajhaha rank,the hadeeth gave him undisputeable recognistion for ali.that is something no one shares him.and especialy in context that abu bakar and omar failed to successfuly defeat the enemy in khaybar before ali lead the arm of islam and defeat the enemy.what was the is is porpuse that prophet want to clarify in this hadeeth? ( God knows ) but one thing is very clear,ali had been praised more than any other compaion.was he right caliphat after prophet? why did moslims did not support him?did all the mosllims of madina elected abaa bakar?and if they did on what basis?were there any opposition to the calliphat of abaa bakar?why if so?question after question.histroy must be rewrite. can any one tell why only after less tthan 30years of prophet's death moslim mascared each other?what was reason behind that battle in which thousands of moslims lost their lives? were both sides on right track? one thing is for sure one side was on wrong side,and was agressors and other side wa on the right track.which side is that?

read the islamic history u will find surprise !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

I think that you are trying to

spark some arguments hear

that would be COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

Inshallah, I can respect what you are saying, Sayif, but most of us in here will disagree with you on some points b/c most somalis

follow the SUNNI madhabs.

I'm not negating what you are saying

cause you bring about some good questions.

 

You know muslims speak about this often

and the truth is the the Ummah after the rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) passed away,

began its DIVISION and its never been the same since and won't ever be UNITED like it was.

 

"Islam began with a few and it will

end with a few"

 

I think inshallah, that what we can learn from HISTORY b/c HISTORY does repeat itself

OVER and OVER and OVER again.

Inshallah, we can learn from HISTORY that

it really comes down to BASEERAH/VISION.

Each Mujtahid/Imam has their own level of BASEERAH

and this is what guides them.

 

You can read the same HADITH or Ayat of Quran

but Ibn Taymiyya saw something different in that

particular Ayat/Hadith then Imam Jafar Sadiq

or Shiekh Abdel Qadir Jilani.

 

The same goes for the Sahabah, Ulama and Awaliya.

 

Inshallah, people diff. in BASEERAH/VISION

(their level of UNDERSTANDING) and the

WIDER the BASEERAH, inshallah, the more

encompassing of other ideas within the MATRIX/PARAMETERS of TAWHEED.

 

So like the ayat in Sura Al-Imran and many other verses in teh Quran,

we need to inshallah hold on to the

ROPE OF ALLAH (Rabitu)and for that sake,

appreciate DIFFERENCES and RECOGNIZE THE COMMON BOND (TAWHEED).

 

Fi Amanallah

[Muhammad]

Originally posted by sayfulaah-almasluul:

it is big unfortunate that many moslims and even moslim scholars did not understand the importnce of this exceptional family. the only family who are part of our diin. and as u kowyneyn said no salat is complete if we do not mention the prophet and his family in last tahashut. some people compare ali with mu'awiye,other compare hasan and husien with yaziit binu mu'awiye.that so sad.why did muslims allowed banii umayat to curst ali and his family?did not they realise what we for sure know?or there alot hypacrocy going on?why did moslims seat back to defend hasan and husien?doesn't that indicate how umayat ruled the people with murders and irons. we have to think again about this,histroy is repeating itself once again.

the rules that umayat layed down is still practiced in large part of moslim world. and subsequently created the totaltrianism and dictatorship in moslim world.or can u say anyother reason why 25 islamic states all economicaly politicaly and militry backwrd?

i do not see.

we need to change the systems

dear sayfulaah; you are asking many why questions that can't be answered by the nomads in this forum because none of us where present in that time. It is beter to ask questions that can be answered.

 

when I first posted this thread, I was not expecting that we would come to this. I know History is a very difficult subject for some, that people don't always agree on a same subject. what is important is that we use reliable source and logic in our reasoning if we want to get to the truth.

 

 

the household of the prophet, may Allah be pleased with them, is a blessed house, honoured by Allah. The question some Muslims miss is was this household blessed because of Ali(as) or Muhammed(saw)?

 

Ali(ra) was a very noble man, but he was not more honourable than Abu Bakr(ra), Umar(ra) or the rest of the Sahabah. Ali would never have liked us to claim he was mor noble than any of the Sahaba, the same way the prophet never liked his followers to claim he was more noble than the earlier Prophets and Messengers of Allah. We must becareful and not follow the footsteps of the christians and not claim falsehood as they have done to Isa(as).

 

it is true that our Ummah is backward today in all fronts, but to claim that the Ummayyad had anything to do with our current situation is not fair nor is it true. the ummayyad was one of the caliphate that was responsible for the birth of the Islamic Civilization, it was in this age that Islam reached the current borders of today, except south east asia. It was one of the most rich and powerful empires of its time. we can't blame them for our situation, if do that we would be deceiving ourselves.

 

How can have the Ummayyad created the dictators of today? What about the Caliphates after it, the Ottomans, the Mughals, the Safivids, are they all,(sorry except the safivids ofcourse), also responsible for our backwardness? or maybe you are saying it was the ummayads who invented the Sunni branch of Islam?

 

you see akhi, it is time Muslims began to take responsiblitiy for their actions and do something about it. we are not ignorent because our grandfathers were ignorent, we are not poor because our fathers were poor, we are what we do and unless we change nothing will change.

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّى يُغَيِّرُوا مَا بِأَنْفُسِهِمْ ... الرعد11

 

Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they begin to change it themselves (with their own souls). (al-Ra’da 13:11)

[Qac Qaac]

hey sayfullah pls bro are u suggesting that ali should've being the caliph after the prophet.

r u shici bro.

 

r u saying abu bakr, and omar couldn't lead the army, so when ali did they won. this all are shiat ideologies, so pls don't bring this to us. coz i study shiats, i read books that ibn katheer, and abu hanifah wrote about shia and how corrupted they are.

 

explain this to me bro, do u know that ali gave alliegence to abu bakr. or u saying that is a lie.

 

now pls bro don't hide under the pushes, and just tell us if u r a shiat, then maybe we could have debates, if you r not. then your friends are shias. so careful bro coz shias believe that if they are lie to a sunni person, they will get ajar from it. they might have lied to u

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

lets remember that its Ramadan inshallah

and to use restraint and show a bit of gentleness towards each other.

 

Please don't turn this place

into S. Net.

 

Lets not attack other muslim groups

and say vicious things about them and people.

You don't Agree with them, thats fine

there is no need for all that negative

and slanderous sunni v. shia talk in here.

 

Trust me, you're not uncovering anything new by your statements b/c some sunnis do believe what u said and likewise it can be said of some shias.

All that its brewing is HATE and FRAGMENTATION/BREAKING UP our sense

of UMMAH.

 

Fi Amanallah

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

originally posted by conquest

How can have the Ummayyad created the dictators of today? What about the Caliphates after it, the Ottomans, the Mughals, the Safivids, are they all,(sorry except the safivids ofcourse), also responsible for our backwardness? or maybe you are saying it was the ummayads who invented the Sunni branch of Islam?

well i really do not like to create meanless argument in this nice thread,and i hve to say that i am against any argument of that sort.i would like however to shed light on one main thing, which i think,is not new to many of u,but i have this question which is,is

the islamic religone something we create or it is teachings and guidiance that we follow accordly?we derive our islamic thought from two main sources namely:alquran,and sunah.if we do something out of this two source then our deeds are not islamicly correct.we have to face a very diffcult matter which is,do we keep silent about why and what happened between the sahaba for sake of unity which is not there?or we face the truth and say what happened and why?to hide the haq is by itself a sin,we must give the correct verdict of what happend.we are entitled to do so? i am sure as khayr said that many scholrs from ahlulu suna clearly tried to solve the proplem. jazaa humulaahu khayran of course conquest, the actions of those before us( -meant-umayat and those who followed-)has direct effect of our today's way of live if we do not change what they made wrong and follow what they made right.for one very important reason,which is the royalism system was initiated by umayts,an untouchable royals,what ever they do,is right.no one can question them of what theydo.is't that waht is happening now in many moslim countries?any rebelion agaisnt them is considered a step out of islam!!!!!!even if they are corup,my God is that what islam teaches us?all i want to say is let us not argue but let look for the reality.

to QAC QAC:

bro i am not shiate,nor my friends are,i do not like to call myself shiate or suni but a moslim.i am embrasse to hear diffrent names for one umah.and to tell u the truth i am from a family who are broud of their sunism,but let me tell u one thing sunimshor shiateism won'tsave one on the day of chagement,only God's grace and Good deeds can do so.and reality isthat

prophet mohamed p.b.u.h did not leave his umah without caliphat.how can that be possiple while clear hear and reads that prophet use to say if three of u-sahaba- go somewhere one of must be leader ?did prophet did not undersatand what all his campaiond did?which is all of the caliphats did named their successors before they pas away? we won't reach the unity of this umah untill we say the truth,and of course many scholars from both side are doing exactly that.

[Muhammad]

Insha'Allah lets move forward to the next question »

 

please can someone ask a question.

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

ok let move on, and my question is,

in the battle of mu,atah who was the first leader?the second leader and the third leader in line? what name did prophet p.b.u.h gave the first leader?

my second question, who torndown the declaration of makkah,in which qurash sanctioned the prophet p.b.u.h?

goood luck

[Muhammad]

Originally posted by sayfulaah-almasluul:

ok let move on, and my question is,

in the battle of mu,atah who was the first leader?the second leader and the third leader in line? what name did prophet

p.b.u.h gave the first leader?

my second question, who torndown the declaration of makkah,in which qurash sanctioned the prophet

p.b.u.h

?

goood luck

The 3 commanders were:

 

1. Zaid bin Harithah (ra)

2. Jafar bin Abi Talib (ra)

3. Abdullah bin Rawahah (ra)

 

I don't know the other two question.