Comments on Somali Unity by Jama Mohamed Ghalib

[Gabbal]

Rahima, don't let your frusteration cloud your judgment walaal. Ha walbahaarin, we will stand on our feet united as never before in due time inshallah.

 

Being divided, despite how it may seem now, only serves the Somali people's enemy.

[me]

Rahima sis although I understand your frustration, I can not understand that you are unwilling to see the basics of this argument.

 

1.) Divding Somalia will result in rivaling weaker states that are poxy colonies for Ethiopia just as Pland and Sland are today.

 

2.) The resources needed for the survival of these ministates are limited, far more limited then they would be in a united Somalia, which will lead to nepotism,corruption, mis-management and the rule of CLANS yes ( sub sub sus clan).

 

3.) Clans do not stop anywhere. Its starts at Somalia.

Then its Clan A, Clan B, and Clan C

 

Clan A is subdivided into

Clan A-1, Clan A-2, Clan A-3

 

Clan A1

is subdivided into Clan A-1a, Clan A-1b,, Clan A-1c

 

The same goes for Clan B and C.

 

The divisions will not stop until you get to the last individual. If we are to follow your advice these divisions will have to continue and everyman or woman should have his or her land.

 

For the Somali clans it is 'peace in wartime and warring in peacetime'

 

Today the mini-states might seem to be holding the peace but this is because they are in the 'war state of mind' the moment they feel at ease they will turn on themselves. That is the nature of the clan.

 

4.) If Sland can seccede from The Republic of Somalia then Sland can be subdivided into even smaller states. Self determination is not a right that applies only for some people but for all people.

 

The arguments of the pro-seccsionist camp do not hold water, they are stuck on the old British Somaliland colonial borders. They are mimicing a state, but we all know that this mini state is build on hate, self pity and discrimination. If a citezen from the North of The Republic of Somalia is not welcome in his home town where his family have lived for generations it shows you that this is nothing but a clan state and clan states have no future.

[RedSea]

Mr. Me, since you have posted this article. Let me school you or shall I say give a little history lesson on who exactly this man that we are dealing with. Although he migh have valid points in his writings , he is someone that has very dark history nonetheless.

 

He is a highly educated millitary general hence how powerful his writing is. He joined the SNM in mid 1980s and fought fiercely against the Barre regime. Later when dictator Siad Barre was toppled, he was one of the key members that anounced the UDI (unilateral declation of independence), although some people say he really never believed the whole seccesion thing, nevertheless, he was part and parcell of that situation.

 

in addition, being former police commander of Somalia, and being a member of the SNM isn't the the problems here, although some of you might have slight of different opinion on this, but he was consider the biggest reason that caused the civil war that occured within the I.S.Q. tribe in mid 1990s.

 

He was the one who single handlely took the hand of his tribe or sub clan and dragged them to fight head on against the Cigal adminstration.

 

some of you might ask why? well let say it wasn't for the sake of unitary, however, he was upset about Cigal who hailed from different sub-clan of being the leader. He wanted to be in that position to being the head of the state, hence if he was given that position, I am sure he would be just Riyale Kahin today of being the head of Somaliland and claiming to being a different country and his writing would be vis versa.

 

The truth is, Gen. Ghalib doesn't have much of face, it doesn't really matter how much he writes about the importance of unity and what is good for the Somali people, since he was the reason that hundreds of civilians from Hargeisa, Burco, Berbera, and Salaxley lost their lives after clan warfare that he himself fueled.

 

So, before he starts to put a pen on a paper, he needs to be asked why and why was he the root of the problems that as a direct result caused the deaths and displacement of thousands of innocent civilians from their homes in Hargiesa, Burco and Berbera which were the places that the fighting took place?

 

After he fueled the fire, what did he do? He did what any naftiise usheqayste would, which is run to western country and take Welfare checks. While taking welfare, he continue to utter rubish and nothhing that would benefit anyone anywhere except yes he himself, because of the money that he will gather from the prints of his books.

 

In conclusion, I say this man is utter useless big headed gacan ku dhiigleh iyo dira diraaleh ah. He has no face whatsoever in Somaliland and the rest of Somali peninsula except with few of those who are always in support of any negativity that is being said against the I.S.Q tribe. We need to look at the individual and what he is , and further we need to look at his dark past. because I know that he doesn't mean anything to Somaliweyne nor Somaliland nor anyone else for that matter except he himself.

 

Diraadiraa leh ma libaano.

 

Enough said.

[Rahima]

Are saying non-real SL (I guess you mean those who opposing secession mainly people from pro-union regions within north Somalia) cannot speak for their home region north Somalia?

No, not completely. You see, I have been educated by some in this forum (and correct me if I’m wrong), SL is made up of many regions, some which are arguably completely pro-secession and others (two to be exact) are disputed over, where half of the population is pro and the other is against. Now if ones objection is on these two regions been labelled as SL and therefore as part of the secession, I understand and respect. But if the dispute is simply because why should they secede at this time, then I disagree. I think it’s obvious what I feel about unity, Ideally I would love not only Somali unity, but the unity of the ummah as a whole, however since that doesn’t seem to be happening, I’d rather people part on good terms and get on with the job. Going by the current state of the Horn (SL included), the secession of others is of little concern- we don’t even have a government which is functioning as it should (and I’m not laying blame with any group here). How then can we sit here and speak about others who have managed to achieve years ago what we still strive for today? At the very least, we should be making positive strides, developments and get a functioning government and then come to the table of unity with something. Thus far we remain empty handed, are they meant to be held hostage by us?

 

That said, I also have some level of pride you see , as I see it if you don’t wanna be my friend, then ta ta and have a nice life. I don’t believe in such things- but then again that’s perhaps just me.

 

You mean tribalism, be straightforward, that could explain why some north Somalis are supporters of Riyaale’s clan militia and others are opponents and resisting the Somaliland

Yes tribalism, tribalism dictates everything about our people. From politics to friendships. Like I said unfortunate, but what can you do? The problem my brother is bigger then secessions, it’s sick hearts. I used to get frustrated, I now find it bitterly amusing- that is all you can do.

 

 

Salaan...

 

To some, slicing the country into many jigsaw pieces is no big deal. Nothing at all.

 

But Amxaaro ayaa xuduud beenaad kasoo tilaabsaneyso, all hell is loose. Suddenly, they are wadani. I don't know what they are wadani about since they don't believe any wadan at all, and to begin with.

 

Don't they also know breaking into that pieces a country like ours fits perfectly the Amxaaro/Tigreey political stratedy they have for our country.

 

Talk about misplaced national priorities.

I’ve never claimed to be fighting for national priorities or any of sort. If Ethiopia were a Muslim nation, I really wouldn’t have any problems with them entering and doing what they are claiming to. My objection to the Amxaaro is but one MMA (yes that's right i was woman enough to address you as MMA ), the administration is one of kufr, full of Islam, Muslim-hating kuffaar. We are all aware of the oppression of our people in the Somali areas they control, to the point that having a beard is a crime and carrying a Quran could be detrimental to your life.

 

Politics aside, this is what matters. Not what you or that cheerleader wish to portray it as. If the two of you are satisfied with such people who will punish you for simply testifying to the Lordship of Allah, then to each their own. I however am not satisfied. SL seceding does not impede me or my people from practising Islam or worhsipping Allah, as He deserves to be. SL seceding does not mean that I am at risk of harm or oppression.

 

I find it quiet disgusting that one would put the Amxaaro on par with SL (fellow Somalis who are MUSLIMS).

 

Being divided, despite how it may seem now, only serves the Somali people's enemy.

Boy am I aware of that HA (it's also against our diin anyway), but I’ve chosen to not care anymore. I don’t very much like Somalis .

[me]

Well Rahima bitterness all over huh?

 

Ok if you don't care then why bother us? I think you care, i think you have a biggggg heart and don't want to be hurt.

 

Anyhow. Disputed regions? There is nothing disputed here. Somalis are clans, you should have realized that by now. All clans have borders so we know where one clan ends and the other begins, so there is nothing disputed.

 

 

You are suggesting the division of Somalia while not looking at the conflicts that that would start. This might seem like an easy solution today but tomorow when the wars start and the 'peaceful' north starts burning it will be the fault of people like you who don't think things through.

 

Look at the advantages and the disadvantages. Just because its hard doesnt make its wrong. Yes today we might seem far away from a prosperous, peaceful Somalia where justice previals but if we do not take the first steps and confront this evil in our midst then we will never reach our goal. Stop this intellectual lazyness please and work and fight for those things that unite us and against all things that hold us back, that hold us hostage that make us hate each other.

 

I have never been fan of the so called umma, the umma has been the number one excuse for the cowards. It is a shield that they always hide behind. Umma this Umma that, I am sorry but what is this umma your talking about? Us Somalis are a part of the Ummah in a religious sense, we have never been a part of the umma in any other way.

 

I have come across so many brothers and sisters that appear to be normal on the surfice but when you engage with them, they do not want to talk about Somalia because Somalia does not exist for them. For them the idea of Somalia is wrong because Somalia is a Nation State and in their beliefs a nation state is against Islam. They say they want to give their energy for uniting the ummah yet they do not want to start with their own people. They expect that one day magically all the muslim world will unite and everything will be alright.WRONG. Allot struggle will go before that. Today we are further away from uniting the umma then ever before.

 

It is time that us Somalis wake up and smell the fish. there about 20something arab countries with moderate economies, with one language, with allot resources why don't they unite first. Why should we let our people suffer while we wait for an ummah?

 

For the sake of the argument if you say you are for a united Umma why are you so eager to divide Somalia? You say you have no problem with Ethiopia if Ethiopia was a muslim country. So it does matter to you who opresses you. As long as its a muslim its ok? are you saying that?

 

So for example you would rather be a slave to a muslim then to a christian, but then WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE A SLAVE?

 

If Somalia becomes occupied WE BECOME SLAVES.

 

My position is clear. 1 united Somalia comprimising of all the Somali regions of Africa.

My ummah are my Somali brothers and sisters.If achieving this goal means 10 other wars so be it. What happend to the once proud Somalis, cowardic is the order of the day. Everyone is afraid of something, since when did we became afraid of everything. It seems like Somalis with cigaal shidaad syndrome have taken over, I think Somalia P-baa ku kacday, bac baa ku dhagtay.

 

Dear Rahima I understand your frustrations but your arguments are all over the place. In my previous posts I have already made clear why it is that I am against Sland and why I know it will fail. Wether it is recognized or not it will fail.

Just like Somalia has failed and all the other mini-states will fail. The mistakes of Somalia will be repeated in all of the other mini-states.

 

Sland had 2 clan wars already that have costed the lives of countless people. And another clan war between Pland and Sland. The hate and anymosity runs so deep it would scare you. Between Some clans disputes that are pre-colonial still have to be settled. Anyways its not hard predicting Somali politics always bet on war.

[me]

Thank you for your reply Mr.Red Sea, you have provided me with information that I did not have before. Yes we are all motivated by peronal gains. Nothing altuiristic about most peoples actions, your actions on this forum are also motivated by personal ideas and gains just as are mine.

 

As you have already said the author of this article has some points. We are not here to judge wether he should be trusted of not, we are here to look at wether his points are correct or not.

 

If they are wrong it is not hard to disprove them. So far it seems that he is not far from the truth.

 

As you have already said he has allot of experience in Somali politics, he has been a part of the SNM and he knows both sides of the story.

 

So now that we have agreed on that, why don't we look at the content

 

Maybe we will find lies, errors or anything that would mean that he is wrong. If not then this means a huge blow to the virtual reality that is called Sland

 

Thank you

[Rahima]

Me,

 

Look at the advantages and the disadvantages. Just because its hard doesnt make its wrong.

I’m not pro-secession as a concept (seems like you missed my point ) I’m just not opposed to it in the current climate of the Horn (for any administration is better than anarchy) and as far as there is complete agreement by the people, I have no right to object (making noise about it achieves nothing). For the two disputed regions (which they are, they claim it and others claim it), I get the argument, but for other regions, really it is their choice no? I don’t think it’s right, but at the same time since we have bigger problems I see it as a non-issue at this point in time. I’m not sure if I can make it any clearer :confused: .

 

Stop this intellectual lazyness please and work and fight for those things that unite us and against all things that hold us back, that hold us hostage that make us hate each other.

I have never been fan of the so called umma, the umma has been the number one excuse for the cowards. It is a shield that they always hide behind. Umma this Umma that, I am sorry but what is this umma your talking about? Us Somalis are a part of the Ummah in a religious sense, we have never been a part of the umma in any other way.

Contradicting yourself aren’t you mate ? What greater unity is there than the Ummah? The Ummah I refer to is the one of Muhammad s.c.w and I’A will one day have a Khalifah. At least I’m only bitter as far as the sick Somalis go (but even then when I’m not pissed I am hopeful). I have faith that unity will happen someday (not only for Somalis but the Ummah also), but probably not in my lifetime. I can live with that, but the concept I still hold dear, although I know not applicable at this point.

 

Anyway what’s all this about the Ummah anyway? You’re taking it so out of context. I think all your points on the Ummah are irrelevant to our discussion so we can leave it at that.

 

That said striving for unification of the Ummah under a righteous Khalifa does not equate to slavery, as you seem to arguing. I disagree with you on that, for I believe the system of governance chosen by Allah for us is perfect even if people tend to distort it. I’m not saying that they won’t, but I sure do hope for one based on the foundations of our religion. Once again, I don’t believe such a perfect system has to end in slavery and really like I said is irrelevant anyway.

 

Nice conversing with you me ; I was just expressing my opinion not wanting to get into a long discussion, which is now seemingly venturing into areas of non-issue. I'll leave it at that whilst i'm still sane.

[me]

Dear Rahima,

 

On the point of the ummah, its irrelevant to this argument, lets leave it at that

 

On the other issues however:)

 

 

Quote: "I get the argument, but for other regions, really it is their choice no? I don’t think it’s right, but at the same time since we have bigger problems I see it as a non-issue at this point in time. I’m not sure if I can make it any clearer [Confused]

 

I am confused too, I really don't get what your saying. I dont want to speculate but I just can not help myself.

 

Are you saying although you know that the secession is wrong and that the people are against it, its still ok to secede?

 

I am now of the opinion that you are not being true to your religion. You are contradicting your religion. You say that the dismemberment of a muslim nation is ok while you don't look at the other alternative ways of healing the wounds of the nation.

 

If Somalia was a patient and you where a docter and the leg of Somalia was infected and simple anti-biotics would solve the issue you would opt for amputaion just because its better then the current situation? why don't you look at the alternatives before you draw radical conclusions?

[Qudhac]

hahahaha

 

how its funny to hear the hawls of defeated Afweyne Folks

 

 

 

kiss it you know you want to.

[me]

Dear Qudhac,

 

You are more then welcome contribute to this discussion, but I would like to ask you to contain your impulses.

 

SOL prides itself as a forum for all Somali people who would like to exchange their ideas and have fruitful discusions on issues that affect us all. Please use this forum to express yourself everyway possible as long as you refrain from drugotory remarks.

 

I am looking forward to your contributions to this tread.

 

Thank you

[Azmaya]

Me walaalo u have shown raagnimo and are a true gentlemen in this discussion proud of you!

 

you have raised excellent points and your opponents are unable to debate so they resorted to childlish antics and intellectual laziness of kiss this flag blah blah is that all yall can come up with to the points raised by Me and the article he posted? The jokes on you!

 

Nice job Me, your a winner!

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Rahima:

My objection to the Amxaaro is but one MMA (yes that's right i was woman enough to address you as MMA

),

Well, I've seen "someone" man enough to write two senteces just to avoid saying...Juma.

[Rahima]

Are you saying although you know that the secession is wrong and that the people are against it, its still ok to secede?

 

I am now of the opinion that you are not being true to your religion. You are contradicting your religion. You say that the dismemberment of a muslim nation is ok while you don't look at the other alternative ways of healing the wounds of the nation.

Me, you need to get real mate. There is the ideal and then there is reality. I believe that the breaking up of a Muslim nation is against Islam, in fact having so many Muslim countries in this world and not having them under the banner of one khalifa is against Islam, however what are we to do until we get there? Sit around and cry about it or get real and make foreword steps towards it? The latter is that which I hope you have chosen. The same reason why we have to support any feral leader we may have, any governance is better than none. Temporary solutions to achieve the ultimate good or to avoid greater evil are allowed in Islam you know, to say so does not mean that one is not been true to their religion.

 

Now for the case of the Horn, firstly, I don’t believe that all the people of SL are against it. I however acknowledge that perhaps even half of the population of the two disputed regions disagree, the rest are basically all in agreement (and they are, we should get real on this point also). Now with that been reality, what is to be done? The majority agree and want to secede; they have found success in this secession for they have achieved what we are unable to. Now I know that Somalis never like success or good for one another, but they have and kudos to them I believe. Once again keeping all this in mind what is to be done? We agree that as a concept disunity is wrong and against Islam, but at this point do they have an alternative other than to join the barbaric acts of the rest of us? I don’t believe that the average SL has so much hatred for his/her fellow Somalis that no matter what they would still want to secede, no, in fact I believe they have chosen this option purely out of necessity.

 

When we get out house in order and come to like I said the table of unity, if SL then still chooses to be separate, then yes objection (based on Islam) is founded. But right now, when you don’t have any supper, do you expect others to go hungry also?

[SOO MAAL]

but for other regions, really it is their choice

Rahima, how fair are you?

 

Are you saying some regions/clans have the right of self-determination and others not?

 

If Sool and Sanaag don’t want to be part of clan state of Somaliland? Why you believe the people of Sool Sanaag should be to part Somaliland

 

Can’t be you fair?

 

The issue is not who claims what? Somalia claims Somali region occupied by Ethiopia, the Transitional government claims all former Somali republic

 

 

Yes tribalism, tribalism dictates everything about our people. From politics to friendships. Like I said unfortunate, but what can you do? The problem my brother is bigger then secessions, it’s sick hearts. I used to get frustrated, I now find it bitterly amusing- that is all you can do.

If you saying the issue is about pure tribalism and not about unity and secession, if that is the case why think that north Somalia (a region with diverse and different clans) should be hijacked by one-clan militia led by riyoode

 

 

That said, I also have some level of pride you see , as I see it if you don’t wanna be my friend, then ta ta and have a nice life. I don’t believe in such things- but then again that’s perhaps just me.

 

People of North central (ssc) are expecting some pride from northwest brothers, northwest should say to north central if you don’t wanna be my friend, then good luck

 

 

SL is made up of many regions, some which are arguably completely pro-secession and others (two to be exact) are disputed over, where half of the population is pro and the other is against.

I disagree with you sister your claims are unsupported, tell me your source? because everyone can claim anything to support his position

 

I believe north Somalia is made up of four regions Awdal region ( 50% support secession), Northwest (80 support secession), North central (90% support unity with Somalia or they don’t want to part of so-called Somaliland), Northeast Bari (amazingly because of error they are part of the south)

Former British Somali colony is irrelevant right now

 

 

You are totally unfair to people of north central Somalia, how you can claim that 50% of the people of North central (Sool sanaag and cayn) support the secession, a false statement. If you want to know the truth go visit the north central region, ask people from north central their views, there are many nmad here in this forum from north central like soomaal, naxar nugaaleed, caamir, maakhir

 

Why you think that we can divide Somalia? And we cannot divide irrelevant former brinish colony of Somalia

 

Why think the majority of irrelevant former brinish colony of Somalia can secede from Somalia? And the massive majority of north central Somalia cannot secede from the irrelevant former brinish colony of Somalia?

 

Although I am sure that the world will not recognize the clan-state based in Hergeysa for obvious reasons, for hypothetical purpose if recognized, I think it will only lead another Somali horrific civil war in north Somalia between northwest and north central

 

Logically, if Somalia is divisible, Somaliland (an irrelevant former british colony) is as well divisible

 

Note: I don’t mind if Northwest secedes, that’s for northwest Somalis to decide

[RedSea]

Assalamu Calaykum,

 

Mr. Me, I would like to ask you where exactly is this Somalia and Somali unity aka Somaliweyne that you are braging about? isn't Djabuti, NFD, Western Somalis part of the deal? isn't the South (God help them) who are in turmoil until recently part of your agenda of Somali unity. Somaliland and Southern Somalia is not it. They are only 2/5 of the Somaliweyne.

 

I am in no way trying to defend politicians' cause by any means, but if I were to discuss the Sool and Sanaag situation which is claimed by both Somaliland and Puntland. Although some might say it belongs to Puntland, because of clan affliations.However the counter argument for that would be that it's part of Somaliland, because of colonial borders which was established by the British in pre 1960s. These same borders exist between Kenya, Ethiopia and all over the world, so it's not something that only regards the Somalis. Is it good that Somalis are divided? that I can't give a clear answer at this moment, because what did they accomplish when they were united, which was basically nothing to be recalled. Except few years of horumar that the dicatatorship regime has brough.

 

If we look at clan wise and deal with facts in Sool and Sanaag, I'd say western Sanaag including the capital of sanaag; Cerigabo is populated by the Hargeisa, Burco, Berbera aka "traingle" tribe, in Western Sool, Caynabo to be exact, from Oog to Caynabo city itself is also populated by the same tribe that is Burco and Hargeisa. Sool is for the most part belongs to tribe that lives in Puntland but many districts on the western corner are populated by clans from where you consider the "traingle".

 

With all that being said, the argument isn't really who relates to who or what clan resides in what area. But rather the argument should be why Somalis need each other? That should be your main aim. You will not win the argument that Sool and Sanaag cannot be part of Somaliland, because they don't relate to those living in Hargeisa, Burco and so forth. If that was the argument, then what is the difference between Awdal and Las Anod, both of them cities are populated by tribes different then those living in the "traingle" as you put it.

 

I believe as long as a worlord like Abdullahi Yusuf is in charge of "Somalia" of today, and a criminal is in charge of " Somaliland", then no one should talk of unity and greater Somalia, because by God that is far from being accomplished or being reached. As long as everyone is siding with their clan criminal and calling him a leader of a nation or a state, then what country do you have to be proud of? Let us be honest, the author needs to realize that there is no such thing as Somali unity as of today, it used to be back in the old days when everyone was nationally motivated. But today, everyone is tribally motivated and everyone would like to see his/her tribe succeed and not much care is given to nationhood if that is what you speak for in your argument. The current status quo shall stand until everything is reshaffle and recreated, meaning Abdullahi Yusuf should leave his post honorabily, call for vote.I think if you folks give much care about Somali unity, you would back the courts who are being supported by many people from Somaliland and Puntland, they have better chance of bringing the Somalis together. But for whatever reason you have apposed them, calling them terrorists and you have backed Abdullahi Yusuf and the dibad galeen government.

 

Some conditions have to be reached before you can posse any argument of such Mr. Me, show me a stable Southern Somalia, free NFD, free Western Somalis, Djabuti willing to unite with their Somali bretherens, then it would only be fair if these fellow bretherens come to the nagotiotion table and work out their difference in respectful manner.

 

Let us get a little dose of reality ourselves here and we are Somalis, we know exactly what is the other one is talking about. We can't fool one another, so let us be honest to each other and show actions rather than listening someone who has dark history whom is writing basic things that we have heard before behind computer screen who is trying to tell me what is right and what is not right?

 

To Ghalib himself: I cannot except anything no matter what package it comes in from someone who has put his own people in harms way for his own self benefit to tell me what to do. No one can except that, may be Somalis would be reunited without the people like his kind, like Riyale Kahins, Like Abdullahi Yusuf, like Cade Muse.

 

Finally, one last note, didn't you know that Allah doesnt' destroy nation or a people unless they have done some evil things? Yes this is exactly why the Somali people are destroyed, because of hatred directed towards one another, and until that changes, don't expect anything else to change. Allah doesn't change a nation unless individuals change themselves first. Somalis cannot be together until folks like Abdullahi Yusuf and Ghalib still exist in the society and that is a fact that needs not to be overlooked.

 

Assalamu Calaykum.