Comments on Somali Unity by Jama Mohamed Ghalib

[Rahima]

Fair enough, I am only talking about my home North central that’s all, sister stop using “disputed region†there is NO disputed region, dhulka dad baa leh, we can say occupied region, I get angry when foreigners portray NFD, Palestine, Western Somalia, Kashmiir as disputed regions, I say there are no disputed regions because planted on every regoin people, in reality there is only occupied regions

Like I said, ones viewpoints are determined by which side of the fence Allah chose for them to be born of (and often folks forget that it was not a choice of their own making), NFD, Palestine, Western Somalia and Kashmir I say are not disputed because it is Muslims vs Kufaar, biased perhaps, but I am not ashamed to admit so. These two regions however I care not in terms of who lays claim, at the end of the day it is a land of Muslims where one can pray and worship Allah in peace, that really is all that matters. If one part want to stay with Somalia then let them, if another want to secede let them, just draw the borders, as they should. Similarly, Mudug is a disputed region, half claim it is part of PL and the other not, they've drawn an imaginary line for themselves and it seems to be working, maybe these regions should do the same. I don’t get what all the bickering is really. Once upon a time all these borders did not exist, now they’ve become untouchable and cause civil wars. It is unnecessary that one should kill a fellow Muslim over such an issue.

 

Well that applies to everyone whether he/she is from Borame Hergeysa, Laascaanood, Boosaaso or Mogadishu. It doesn’t apply only to one clan or region

I know, which is why I reject all stats that I have not seen proof of myself (like in Awdal).

 

Another inappropriate statement, why don’t you say if I asked a pro-union from borame/hergeysa like (me), about the union debate, they would support Somalia and reject secession

No, that which you state is innappropriate for likewise I could reason, how about a pro-secessionist who is originally from LA? Which there are, and I’m sure you know that . These types of people are rare and we all know it.

 

Well sister you blaming one side its grossly unfair,

I have :confused: , where and who have I blamed? And blamed on what premise?

 

Sister my home region alhamdulilaah presently there is relative peace, and there are no active wars and no my home region is not burning. I pray Allah, your region Banadir if I am correct, and all other Somali region to enjoy peace, progress, and stability Insha Allah

Your home my dear is burning. You talk about unity and not dividing, yet that is exactly what you are doing. Like I said, your room can be semi-clean (North central), but that doesn’t matter when your home (Somalia) is in a mess.

 

And yes my region is Banadir since that is where I was born- I hope that is what you meant,lool . Gotta love Somalis.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by me:

Somaliland was not forced or attacked; the people of the North in their wisdom during those early days of our nation have opted for unity. As it says in our first constitution: ONE UNION FOREVER. So convince me why Somaliland should secede?

Eeerm.. Majority of Somalilanders voted against that constitution in the 1961 referendum, why don't you come up with something to convince me with.

[me]

Dear readers,

 

Everyone is taking this discussion somewhere else.

We are here to discuss

• Why a certain part of Somalia has the ‘right’ to secede while others don’t.

• Whether secession will solve all the problems

• And the alternatives to secession.

T

Ayoub The Majority of the people in many provinces of Somalia voted against that constitution because it was flawed however in 1963 a new constitution was adopted. The people of North Western Somalia did not vote against the constitution because they where against the union. They voted against it because the constitution was wrong. The rejection of the constitution did not mean the rejection of the union.

 

Rahima, first of all you are recognizing the people of the North West of Somalia as a different people, people who are not Somalis.

 

Let me reassure you THEY ARE SOMALIS. They are Somalis just like me because it’s my region; they are Somalis just like the rest of us. If you want peace as you are claiming why ignore the other peaceful territories of Somalia. Why don't you in your infinite wisdom say? HEY I WANT A PEACEFUL SOMALIA, and the way forward in brining about a peaceful SOMALIA is uniting the peaceful regions of the country and setting up an administration in those region and administration that is fair and that has learned the lessons from the Somali Republic. An Administration that unites people and not divide or in some cases but an international border between brotherly people. Why say ‘The SOUTH’ a meaning less word or the others have to clean up their house. I am sorry but we all live in the same house. No matter how hard some people try to divide us.

 

After the war broke out in Mogadisho Somalia did not have to disintegrate. If there were any wise leaders this would not have happened, many regions where peaceful. A national government could have been formed in those regions.

 

Many of us Somalis always opt for the lazy solutions. I would like to understand why it is that you do not wish for better, do not hope for better and if you do why is it that you do not back it. Why are you so willing to give up on our homeland? I read through the lines and in you I see a person who has lost hope in the good of her people. As I said before bringing peace about in Somalia and uniting the Somalis is hard, but it’s not impossible. Uniting the Somalis today might be hard but IT IS NOT WRONG, to the contrary IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

 

Mr. Red Sea,

 

Abdilahi Yusuf and his TFG or the wadaads or the warlords or Pland do not matter to me. The matter most important to me is situation in the North West region. Why because it’s my land, that’s why, I do not want any opportunistic group dividing my country in its hour of need. And the issue of the secession is also one that hits me on personal levels.

 

What I am asking of you or the people of the North West is not to surrender to the likes of Abdilahi Yusuf. What I am asking you is why surrender to division and to secession? What I am asking is what’s wrong with UNITY?

 

Why are those people against unity and are for secession?

 

If the situation in parts of Somalia (The triangle of death) is bad. That is not a reason to secede.

 

If you say that we Somalis are clans and that every clan has to decide his or her own fate, I can understand. But I do not agree with it.

 

If you say you are for a peaceful united Somalia then why make ultimatums, why do the rest of us have to jump through hoops just to achieve unity? If you are sincere about unity you would not make any ultimatums you would just like me say the situation is bad and if we work together we can make it better.

 

So first you need to stand for unity only then can we look at the true problems. We can not solve our problems if we are not united.

 

UNITED WE ARE STRONG, DIVIDED WE FALL

[SOO MAAL]

Rahima,

 

This is what a wise brother from North West (Red sea) has said regarding North central (Sool, east sanag, and Cayn)in another thread

“All Somalis have distinct territories, we must respect these territories. For example, the tribes from Hargeysa cannot claim Sool and Sanaag for the most part, if they do, they are in error.â€

 

So I guess you are lost in this northern debate!

 

The issue is not who claims what? Because these days, everyone claims anything like properties in Somalia, ku qabso ku qadi meeside

 

the issue is about fairness

 

 

I know, which is why I reject all stats that I have not seen proof of myself (like in Awdal).

Well its you who started this whole issue of statistics, and then you couldn't provide the Source !

 

I have , where and who have I blamed? And blamed on what premise?

“ but do not object because others have chosen to not be with you†See here you addressing only one-side of the conflict, when it’s the opposite

 

Its the people of North central who have chosen not be with their brethren from northwest in the secession issue

 

 

You talk about unity and not dividing, yet that is exactly what you are doing.

Why you saying that I support partition of Somalia? Your statement is untrue

 

 

Ok I will repeat myself again, If all Somali people choose division over unity, I will continue supporting the unity of all Somali people peacefully, at the same time, I am against force for that reason although I don’t like to see any Somali region seceding, however I support any region to secede if the majority of the people from that particular region within Somalia support secession agenda. I am with my brothers whatever they want

 

Like I said, your room can be semi-clean (North central), but that doesn’t matter when your home (Somalia) is in a mess.

I thought you said you had a pride? Why you wish for to make north central part of the mess, or are you suggesting north central, Puntland, and Hiiraan to fellow the Somaliland example? And forget about the less peaceful regions

 

You saying my region is semi-clean, I don’t know why you can just say your region has a relative peace

 

Anyways, north Somalia, which in geographically includes Awadal, Northwest, North central, and North east (Bari) is already in agreement by keeping status que ( so don’t worry). And we hope the south will be very peaceful as well.

 

You have to realize that most of the regions of Somalia are relatively peaceful, 10 out of 18 provinces. And insha Allah Mogadishu is getting recently more peaceful with the courts (although most leaders of the courts decent people like sheikh Ahmed, however surprisingly courts are allied with another set of warlords like indhamadoobe)

 

Hopefully, in the near future all the 18 region will enjoy peace and prosperity, Insha Allah

[Liibaan]

at the end of the day it is a land of Muslims where one can pray and worship Allah in peace, that really is all that matters

The action matters not the victim, even if at the end of the day people can pray and worship Allah doesn’t matter really, because no one can justify the occupation of Muslim land by a Muslim outsiders, no excuse for haraam

 

Man is selfish but Allah is just "...and Allah means no injustice to any of His creatures." (Qur'an 3 : 108).

 

In Islam there is no church hierarchy no priests, ministers, vicars, deans, or popes. When a Muslim prays he prays directly to God not through any intermediary. When he serves God he is not serving an institution but God alone. Every human being is individually responsible for their own actions and their own beliefs. No one can take that responsibility away from you.

If you think that anyone is ordering you to act against what you sincerely believe to be the will of God you are duty bound to disobey that order and instead obey Allah. This is the principle that

Allah is the sovereign; and no one has monopoly over religion

 

The son of the Muslim governor of Egypt once had a horse race with another man, which the another man won. Angry, the son of the Muslim governor lashed the man with his whip. The man brought his case to Omar Ibnul-Khatab at the time of Hajj, the annual Muslim pilgrimage. In front of the general assembly of Muslims, Omar gave his whip to the man, saying, Beat the one who beat you. Then Omar scolded Amr, the boy's father and conqueror of Egypt, saying: When did you enslave the men who were born free by birth?

 

I believe we all born Muslims, alxamdu lilaah, therefore no side should use religion to advance their political platform.

[Rahima]

^What is up with all the twisting :rolleyes: . Mate I was not speaking of Muslims occupying , I was referring to a Muslim nation claiming what Ethiopia is now- that they wish to see a peaceful Somalia.

 

People tend to nab onto one point and then twist it to meet an irrelevant point. What you write is of absolute no relevance to the topic- you do realise that don’t you? :confused:

 

Rahima, first of all you are recognizing the people of the North West of Somalia as a different people, people who are not Somalis.

I am? That’s interesting me, you know that of me how so? Since it is not something I believe nor have stated.

 

Anyway thanks me , but I don’t need a history lesson, what SL does is their business and really if the whole of Somalia with all their illnesses wants to break up into families, I could not give a rat’s a’ss so long as the killings cease and peace is achieved.

 

Soo Maal,

 

You seem like a relatively intelligent person, so allow me to ask, what are you on about with this fairness stuff? All I’m saying is that I do not recognise the land to belong to one tribe over another, simply because many people claim it. You disagree, but of course you would, you are one of those who dispute over the land. Who decides which land belongs to which tribe anyway? Every tribe will claim that land Y is theirs, I am not one to determine, and hence it is disputed (as far as I’m concerned). What is it that you seem to want of me in terms of fairness? To say that Sool and Sanaag are part of PL and not SL? Is that it? Is that the fairness you refer to? I’m sorry to disappoint you my brother, but I’m not one to determine.

 

Well its you who started this whole issue of statistics, and then you couldn't provide the Source !

I’ve seen it for myself, I have been to Awdal. Dude everywhere you go there is SL flag in your face, if that is not support I fail to understand what is. Other stats I don’t care for, coz I know everyone throws them around to suit their agenda.

 

Ok I will repeat myself again, If all Somali people choose division over unity, I will continue supporting the unity of all Somali people peacefully, at the same time, I am against force for that reason although I don’t like to see any Somali region seceding, however I support any region to secede if the majority of the people from that particular region within Somalia support secession agenda. I am with my brothers whatever they want

Kinda sounds familiar . I could swear that I’ve been arguing the same point, over and over.

 

I thought you said you had a pride? Why you wish for to make north central part of the mess, or are you suggesting north central, Puntland, and Hiiraan to fellow the Somaliland example? And forget about the less peaceful regions.

PL and Hiraan have chosen to be part of the mess by choosing to stay with Somalia. They unlike SL, cannot sit back and say well my region is peaceful and prospering so to heck with the rest. Unfortunately for them, with the union comes the responsibility of cleaning the rest. And I don’t suggest anything, but I wouldn’t be bothered too much by it, it would just be icing on the decadent cake of the Horn .

 

You saying my region is semi-clean, I don’t know why you can just say your region has a relative peace

I was talking about a house and rooms my dear . You can’t exactly say that your room is relatively peaceful, it doesn’t fit the example. Be reasonable would ya, you’re even picking on language now. I cannot believe that the discussion has gone this low.

 

Let's leave it at that boys.

[Suldaanka]

^^You seem to be handling the folks quite well... but I just want to make a little correction here

 

"PL and Hiraan have chosen to be part of the mess by choosing to stay with Somalia. They unlike SL, cannot sit back and say well my region is peaceful and prospering so to heck with the rest. Unfortunately for them, with the union comes the responsibility of cleaning the rest. And I don’t suggest anything, but I wouldn’t be bothered too much by it, it would just be icing on the decadent cake of the Horn "

 

Your assertion here that Somaliland declared indepedence when the South descended into anarchy is wrong. At the time that Somaliland declared its independence, Mogadishu was quite peaceful (compared to what it is today). There were no warlordism, and no checkpoints and the city was built and not destroyed, although there was a political stand-off between two sides at that time. In those days, Somaliland was in rubbles, its cities were destroyed, freelance melitias ruled the streets and main roads...

 

So regardless of whatever the political events that unfolded in Mogadishu in the subsequent years turned out to be, Somaliland's declaration had nothing to do with it and the two are not connected in any shape or form.

[me]

Rahima the problem here is the vagueness of your arguments. You are not holding any position. You agree with everything.

 

You agree with secession, you agree with unity.

 

You don't mind being occupied as long as Muslim occupies you.

 

and you said yourself ""I don’t need a history lesson, what SL does is their business and really if the whole of Somalia with all their illnesses wants to break up into families, I could not give a rat’s a’ss so long as the killings cease and peace is achieved"".

 

Do you think that there will be peace if Sland is recognized? In my opinion there will be no peace, actually there might be a bigger war. The fact they the secessonists have not got the recognition they are after is a blessing in disguise for the Northen communities otherwise we would have already had ourselfs a nice war similar to the one in the death triangle and we don't want that.

 

You keep repeating in different words that you don't care about Somalia or the Somalis. In your opinion, we are diseased, ill minded, sick in the head etc etc. You are very kind.

 

So what are you arguing for, what are you for and what are you against, if we Somalis are diseased ill minded why do you care so much.

 

Choose a position sis, to help us, please make clear what you stand for and what you want or hope for in your next post.

 

Please continue to ignore this discussion about the unity of Somalia, the morality, the legality of the secession and even the catastrophic outcome if this stand off continuous. And ofcourse you say Awdal is pro-Somaliland, like the people there have any choice, do you think that people overthere can voice their opinion wiuthout being accused of treason? and maybe you forgot the war of 'liberation' in Borame.

[me]

Suldaanka welcome, I thought you deserted your cause since you couldnt defend it anymore.

[Suldaanka]

^^ Daami Boy

Marka maalinba magac ama nickname kale meesha lala yimaado, it becomes useless sxb.

 

I wonder what happen to Nayruus and the villager from Baffoonville and the other numerous folks that were obsessed with Somaliland.

[me]

Are you ok brother? Calm down, keep the name callings to yourself and join us in this discussion.

 

These vulgar comments that you are directing at me seem beneath you, keep your composure.

[Rahima]

Rahima the problem here is the vagueness of your arguments.

No, the problem is that you seem to have a deficiency in understanding what I write.

 

You agree with secession, you agree with unity.

You really are a simpleton aren't you me?

 

Unity is the ideal, but since we can’t, let secession take place. Hopefully you will be able to discriminate between the two. Ideal vs. reality. Ideally as a Muslim I would like to live under the rule of Khalifa. Reality- it isn’t happening; therefore I must support a government, which in many many ways is against that which was sanctioned by Allah, but at the very least there is hope of order. Does that then mean I am against the establishment of an Islamic state? Ponder that my friend

 

You don't mind being occupied as long as Muslim occupies you.

No I did not. I did not say occupy, damn it folks read, jeez. I said:

 

Mate I was not speaking of Muslims occupying , I was referring to a Muslim nation claiming what Ethiopia is now- that they wish to see a peaceful Somalia.

 

So what are you arguing for, what are you for and what are you against, if we Somalis are diseased ill minded why do you care so much.

This whole discussion started because I am of the opinion that people need to get over SL and leave them alone, if you guys care so much for the nation, care about that which matters now for Somalia- SL is irrelevant. That said, the rest of the discussion is simply you lot not letting me hold an opinion. I’m getting attacked for my opinions, I’m being told to accept a particular opinion and uphold the views of certain individuals and even more importantly im being told that I have views/thoughts that I don’t :rolleyes: . I’m just in a mode of self-defence here. My not-caring for of Somalia stems from disgust, not because I relish in the concept of not caring. No one really cares for the people or the good of the people. One group runs away (it’s a selfish outlet, but to survive you have to be), and the others eat each other not wanting any good for each other. What is there to have hope for or care about? I honestly do believe that Somalis cannot live with one another, with all tribes living in harmony UNLESS they clean their hearts. Till they do, they should all live separately and if that means declaring independence, then so be it, c’est la vie.

 

And ofcourse you say Awdal is pro-Somaliland, like the people there have any choice, do you think that people overthere can voice their opinion wiuthout being accused of treason? and maybe you forgot the war of 'liberation' in Borame.

How we love to delude ourselves. Once upon a time, there was a struggle in Boorama, now the tide has changed in favour of SL, go and check it out for yourself. Believe you me, there is no one holding a gun to peoples heads. The extent of the support sets aside any claims of force.

 

Somaliland's declaration had nothing to do with it and the two are not connected in any shape or form.

Thanks for the education Suldaanka, but as you can see, it matters not to me what the reason. If people wanna go, heck I’ll pack their bags for them. That said though, when all is fine, to divide Muslims even more is wrong- we all as Muslims know that. However, it is not for any of us to force others.

[me]

Yes I am a simpleton and this discussion is simple actually, the problem here is that the water is too muddy and allot of people really don't see how things are.

 

Secondly you say that UNITY is the IDEAL. I agree with you. So if unity is the ideal why not work for the ideal, why not achieve that ideal? why settle for a reality that is bad. Should we give up on the IDEAL?

 

If we give up on the ideal and settle for a reality that is bad what is the point of improving lives. Why don't we let everything in the world be as they are since that is how reality is.

[Rahima]

Secondly you say that UNITY is the IDEAL. I agree with you. So if unity is the ideal why not work for the ideal, why not achieve that ideal? why settle for a reality that is bad. Should we give up on the IDEAL?

Ah, now we’re on the same page . My disagreement with many of you is the way in which you guys are trying to reach the ideal. Demonising SL and putting them down will not achieve it- that only creates cuqdad and greater alienation. For, as I see it, the best way to achieve the ideal is to clean up your own home and when it becomes a home you are proud of, come to the table of unity, for then you know you have done all that you can. That my friend was the crux of my original point, which so many of you missed.

 

We need to get passed this Neanderthal mentality that so many Somalis have, that is to put down the 'enemy', downplay their success and not want good for them. Great example maal mahaan in this forum, the cheerleaders who seem hell bent on being anti-courts for ultimately they hate to see good for a region controlled by the 'enemy' or are hell bent on keeping good old adeer at the helm irrespective of what may be good for the people. We don't even have our priorities straight, till we do, forget others and focus on nourishing Somalia.

[me]

The problem is not letting others be, the problem is will the others let you be. Sland is claiming lands that do no belong to it. That is the issue that you have missed Rahima.

 

We have solved the main issue and when you see this issue we are done.