Yo, Family...Help me out, dawgs

[Fabregas]

Taako, you are deliberately making fairy tales to mislead the people. If you remember the Wadaads left Muqdisho and left the arms with the clan militia. You and other political opportunists such as General Duke are trying to imply that the wadaads are behind the animosity against Puntland, which couldn't be far from the truth.If the wadaads hated Puntland than hundreds of men wouldn't have fought alongside them!

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Jimcaale:

quote:Horn,perhaps,Kismayo is insignificant?

Faarax, you're about to win a one-way ticket to Horn's ignore list.

Not necessarily ( ) but what Faarax did was give credibility to my position. What constitutes significance and if any, how is that interrelated with what personally concerns a Somali, i.e his clan? Applying that, ponder why Kismaayo was in chaos during the ICU as opposed to a peaceful Xamar and the opposite today with the TFG.

 

Kismaayo and Mogadishu are the tests cases and Faarax, my unaware brother, has been an unforeseen help.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Faarax-Brown:

quote:Originally posted by ThePoint:

But some white guy writing in support of your case doesn't

necessarily prove your case but then again, you're a smart guy - you knew that already.

I dont get it either,What "some white guy" grasped and understood easily,a somali is unable to..

 

A classic case of "looking at the world through rose-colored glasses" Yeah??

 

edit: Horn,perhaps,Kismayo is insignificant? :confused:

In Mr. Bailey's article - he uses the terms 'Somalian' and 'Somalian tribes' and 'salafism' and much other(non-political in nature) that demonstrates a weak understanding of Somalia. I have a lot of doubt as to his genuine grasp of what is happening in the country. But if you're eager to grasp on to that rather feeble grasp - well you go for it!

 

And yes - Kismayo is an insignificant little tuulo !

[Taako Man]

Geel jire 12

 

You are going off on a tangent. Hundreds of men fighting with who? Remember the ones leading the 'shabaab' in Xamar are the same military commanders. Aden Hashi being the prominent one in the ICU and now whats left of them.

 

The acts carried out are at the command of the ICU.

 

You are making it seem like the ICU was perfect on their watch? Do you remember the senseless slaughtering of 5 men in Bua'ale? Of the djiboutian airline rep in Kismaayo.

 

Prisoners of war killed and a mere civilian. This is under the ICU's watch.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by Jimcaale:

quote:Horn,perhaps,Kismayo is insignificant?

Faarax, you're about to win a one-way ticket to Horn's ignore list.

Well,All i have to do is,Praise Kismayo again. if I go by history,I expect him to un-ignore me si degdag ah. The business of Flip-flopping that is

 

Taako,The wadaads left Xamar,they are running loose somewhere in Waamo. They left the city for the clans,they are not responsible for any of this shiet,let it go. You have said enough about the IUC being a clan org,i am sure your opinion will not change,let it go of that rather weak argument,will ya?

[Gabbal]

Faarax, I do not ignore/pay attention to trolls.

[Taako Man]

F.brown

 

 

I believed that the ICU=Clan org all along. Many of it's representatives fought in Raas Kambooni and elsewhere. However you do realize that many of it's fighters are in Xamar today, giving it one last go.

 

The commander of shabaab is still present and he coincidentally represents this clan.

[Kashafa]

Point-ka,

 

My point was intentionally simple: I was showing how that in the face of overwhelming local, national, and international(Liam is just but one, I can quote you many organisations, journalists, and analysts who are making the same exact case) consensus about the nature, agenda, and and unsurpassed achievements of the ICU, there will ALWAYS be some who driven primarily by a naked tribal agenda or in support of One Strong Man(Yey, Hiraale, Gheedi etc), will seek to a)distort, b)fabricate c)discredit and d) deny the record and historical accomplishments of the Islamic Courts. I don't mind legitimate criticism and debate, and Allah(SWT) knows there are many areas one can target, but what I've been seeing time and again since Decemeber is people throwing some pathetic "get a reaction" talking points and hope for the best from the back-up chorus line. Talk about intellectual dishonesty. Take the fool who called the ICU, "murtadiin". LOL. Hol' up, that needs another LOL. Dude prolly doesn't even know what the word means. He might've thought it was a good 'demonising' phrase. Xooooooox. "Dey is da bad guys, dey is da "murtadiin" Its istupidh ish like that turns the politics section into a cesspool(your own observation). I hope a few more posts will illustrate the madness thats been taken by some as 'normal'.

 

Horn,

 

Duqa, I do reason comprehensively. Just because I've been shining the spotlight on what I consider the crucial areas of the this conflict, doesn't mean I'm disregarding the utter complexity of all things Somali.

 

 

You asked:

 

 

Is Mogadishu resisting Ethiopia or the clan perceived to be empowered by the TFG? Perhaps Mogadishu is resiting Ethiopian, the clan perceived to be empowered, and in favor of Islam and Shareecada? Do you think is a more centralist stance?

First of all, you cannot say Mogadisho and expect it to mean one entity/thing. There are two parts to Mogadisho. The clan(Beesha dagan). And the Muqaawama(Shabaab, Courts etc) Lets agree on that horta. Cool ? Cool.

 

Before these recent clashes, MOST(key word) of the attacks against the Tikrey/TFG alliance were being carried out by the thoroughbreds of the Muqaawama represented by all Somalis. To say otherwise(Clan Courts etc) is a simple denial of reality. Not only is it a denial, but it's a insult to the men currently fighting against the Etho occupation of Somalia. It's a insult to say: No, you're not fighting for Islamic idealogy, you're fighting for Clan purposes)

 

Let's be clear on that. Intellectual honesty demands it, if nothing else.

 

NOW(ie, these past few days), the conflict took a turn to the tribal side. A clan leader from Mogadisho's house was raided by a Yey's militia, next thing you know, the Beesha(not the Muqaawama) named a spokesman, organised formally, and started fighting as a tribal unit against Yey and the Ethiopians. On their(Beesha Moga) side, yes this is clearly a clan conflict. They have a list of grievances trigerred by what they view as Yey's lording over them by way of Etho might

 

Muqaawamada aa kuu soo hartay. What do you expect them to do since the clashes turned tribal ? Sit on their hands and say "Ok, we'll wait untill the dust settles and then continue our fight against the Tikrey/TFG alliance ?" Heck no. If their interests converge(kicking the Ethos out), it would be a strategical error on the Muqaawama's part to refuse to fight. However, They did fight as a distinct unit and as matter of fact, were responsible for most of the casualties that happened to the TFG/Tikreys. Isku mid ma ahan somebody fighting on principle, and somebody fighting on tribal allegiance

 

I hope that clears up your confusion and lumping up Mogadisho as one single entity.

 

As to why isn't the insurgents active in Kismayo, that's a moot point. The fight for Somalia's survival is now a-happening in many places but is concentrated in Moga. Trust and believe that it will reach K-town soon.

 

Edit: Btw, to those who are tryna 'figure me out' and twist my words to fit them in a tribal slot, er ahem don't try, you'll fail. Born and bred abroad all my life, my parents hail from Jigjiga and Gedo(keep y'all bums guessing ) , as far removed from Mogadisho as possible. Unlike many here, I didn't dial 1-800-Tolka to find out my position, Unlike say, Kooshin Balaqbalaq.

 

Principled men cleaned out the filth of Mogadisho and I promise you principled men will clean out the filth of Yey/Gheedi, Inc

[Fabregas]

No saxib am not going of on a tangent. You and i know hundreds of "Puntland" men died fighting the Ethiopians and vice versa. The majority fought for the Ethiopians(t.f.g) though. The I.C.U had many flaws and made mistakes like all human beings. However, one cannot buy the argument that the whole I.C.U was a clan from South Muqdisho. You cannot argue there was nothing Islamic about it. ALthough you clearly have an agenda in doing so. The fact that you concentrate on the tribe of Hassan Dahir Aweys and Ceyrow, show that "your" thinking is tainted by tribalist(puntland lenses). These two men are probably less clanish than all of the t.f.g put together. The al shabab wing being led by Ceyrow was one of the most diverse groups in Somalia. Ask Sakhar about this he wil tell you. Even when Professor Galaid visited Muqdisho he said " the most enthusiastic i.c.u ideologist" he met in Muqidshp were from Hargeysa. Of course there were some tribalist people from in the I.C.U. But you cannot argue that the whole thing was a mere clan movement. Regurgitating the fact Ceyrow maybe be present in Muqidsho doesn't change anything.

[Jacpher]

^And TFG 4.5 is not clan oriented?? Taako you amuse me walaahi. Did you phone Bosaaso to get the list of 12 schools? Just kidding.

 

Horn, I didn't want to go there buddy but I think qaad was a major factor on those demos in Kissima? I wouldn't either characterize it as mass demo. Iraq war had a mass demo across the globe. I know how you feel about it but hey that's just my opinion.

[Faarax-Brawn]

In Mr. Bailey's article - he uses the terms 'Somalian' and 'Somalian tribes' and 'salafism' and much other(non-political in nature) that demonstrates a weak understanding of Somalia. I have a lot of doubt as to his genuine grasp of what is happening in the country. But if you're eager to grasp on to that rather feeble grasp - well you go for it

Aggah!,Adeer,You are dismissing the whole Point because of terminologies? :eek:

 

I dont mean to disrespect such a smart Nomad as you,but,I have no choice but to refer to your statement as Hogwash.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) did something that many before them had tried and failed. They brought peace and security from complete chaos and total violence in areas under their control in southern and central Somalia after July 2006. For the first time in fifteen years children could go to school safely and hospital's could treat the sick instead of wounded. And with no gunmen on the streets to charge truck drivers fees for safe passage food prices dropped.

Sure Mogadishu was better off under these religious warlords, but have they not destroyed the stability of other regions? They attacked the government which acknowledged the good work they did in the capital. They attacked central regions that were peaceful like Hiiraan . They attacked Puntland which is wrong in some many ways that need no explanation. they have strengthened selective warlords from their clans that were oppressing other clans such as indo. They attacked Kismayo. They empowered ignorant wadaads who instead of helping these people recover, talked about what offenses merited amputations and beheadings. they put little disillusioned children in the front lines of a meaningless war and a war on peoples culture that included bombing and shooting children watching soccer. forgive me if I don't see any "Pacification" in this program.

But perhaps with Somalia's history of inter-clan violence an extreme faith in the country's religion is needed to supersede the tribal traditions of warlord rule.

Simply not true and is similar to telling a burning man what he needs is more fire. Puntland and Somaliland make 60% if not more of what is Somalia and their success had nothing to do with religious extremism.

It is a farce to expect rival warlords and clansmen cobbled together in Kenya as the TFG to govern Somalia without any unification , after years of inter-clan violence. The UIC is of course made up of rival clans but they have their extremist belief in the Islamic faith in common, giving them a unity which they have proven capable of governance.

How ignorant to suggest that the members of government and delegates who formed this government could have nothing in common and that the religious extremism that members of the courts had was more binding! simply put, members of the government have a lot more in common, for good or for bad like restoring our statehood but few bad apples are inevitable. The view that only extremism could unite people is a very cynical world view.

 

At any rate Somalis have a history of anger against foreign forces on their soil , as they showed with protests at the outset of the Ethiopian invasion.

 

Their feelings toward the foreign intervention were displayed again in Mogadishu Mar 21., as an angry mob of militiamen and civilians, including women burned the bodies of uniformed soldiers and dragged their corpses through the streets in barbaric jubilation.

never has the conflict that has engulfed southern Somalia been about foreign intervention. Any suggestion of it can only mean that it is being used as a red herring to draw attention away from the central source of the conflict. Too many people avoid the causes of the state of our nation and have nothing to say but some nonsense about Ethiopia this and Ethiopia that. People, the government was attacked and you do not attack someone and tell them how they should defend them selfs. That we have people in the north who used to say "the boy born in Addis is closer to us then the one born in Mogadishu" all the sudden care about an Ethiopian "invasion" should really leave little doubt as to the real cause driving the anti Ethiopia group.

[Gabbal]

You are a man to be admired Kashafa! My belief was that you, like Xoogsade and Alle-Ubaahne, cannot differentiate between what is tribal and what is religiously oriented and that the line that separates the two might actually be blurry for you as it is for the aforementioned men. However, you have handled yourself and you did not disappointment.

 

Adeer if you are in a religious fight against occupation count me in (!) but if you are a tribe in disguise with tribal objectives the only thing between you and I is the Islamic greeting especially when the Ethiopians are told we have no problems with you and you can stay with us but that clan has to go!

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by N/AA:

Faarax, I do not ignore/pay attention to trolls.

But you do flip flop,regularly?

 

I believed that the ICU=Clan org all along.

And that wont change anytime soon will it?

[Taako Man]

Geeljire

 

Firstly, the TFG has an army from clan from all over Somalia. Yet some one hinder on the fact of 'puntlanders' everywhere.

 

 

It does not take a genuis to know that the ICU was a clan movement.

 

It's leadership apparatus were from one clan exclusively.

 

It's most prominent men were from one sub sub clan.

 

What do Indhacadde (a druglord) Hassan Aweys, Ceyroow, etc have in common? Why was Abdiqasim screaming Allahu Akbar?

 

Why did Qanyare, Qeybdiid, Yalaxoow, Dheere etc put up a fight? Why did Goobaanle and Seraar give up their weapons without a fight?

 

Ofcourse there a people who perceived the notion of the ICU being a pan-somali movement. They drew many members from a far and wide. However as days passed by and Indhacadde was not reprimanded but promoted, it became clear to the greater majority of Somalis what the ICU represented and who they were.