Darfur: Arab supremacy at its ugliest

[NGONGE]

Wind talker (love the name by the way ), you need to ask the Bosnians of what the Arabs did to help them, saaxib. On one hand you’re asking the sister not to compare Somalia to the entire Arab world and on the other, you want to compare the Arab world to NATO?

 

Anyway, if you’re really interested in knowing about the Arab help for Bosnia, I’m sure a quick “google†will answer all your questions (and then some). Oh, they’ve also done the same in Chechnya and Kashmir. Of course, the state of the world as it is today, they couldn’t send official armies, but they turned a blind eye to any Mujahid’s who wished to go and fight alongside their brothers in those regions. Plus, in terms of money and aid, the Arab world was the largest contributor of Aid to all these places (worth asking the government of Abdelqasim in Somalia how many dollars he got from the Arabs! I bet president Yusuf is laughing too).

 

Saaxib, there is a lot that does not get reported in the Western press but it does not mean that these things did not take place. Like I said, should you need any more, a quick google will answer all your questions.

 

Plain hatred and empty words are not conducive to a fruitful discussion, my friend. Time to raise your game a little, methinks.

[wind.talker]

^^ First of all, thanks.

 

Secondly, I think we're on the same page but reading in two differnt languages. Why can't I compare NATO to the Arab world? Do you have any idea how much political clout the Arab world carries if they came out as a united front? Perhaps militarily NATO might seem overwhelming, but I do think a united Arab world would make the blueprint for the most formidable opposition to NATO's plans for global hegemony.

 

As far as Arab money for freedom fighters, I never contested that. But why turn a "blind eye?" Why can't they just come out and say: We support the PLO or the Chechen rebels or whatever? Are they afraid of what the West would think of them? Oh, the Arabs are supporting terrorists! But the West already thinks of them this way. So its time they came out the closet.

 

And I know you look at the Darfur crisis strictly from the standpoint of the West (and Christian allies in Africa) attempting to destablize a Muslim country. Granted, however, the title of this thread implies that the Arab-led Khartoum regime supports the murder and displacement of thousands of Black people by Arab supremacist militias. Its an ugly episode and one that will bring more prying eyes into Sudanese affairs. I'm not preaching hatred, bro. If anyone is hateful, its the Arab militias who continue their genocidal campaign against the mostly Black Sudanese.

[NGONGE]

^^^ The Darfur issue is not one-sides, saaxib. The rebels are as vicious as the Janjaweeds. The hatred and “supremacy†as you call it is mutual.

 

As for the Arabs against NATO, well, like I hinted, open warfare is not possible. However, what you’re asking for is exactly what they did. You need to go back and read about the opposition to the Bosnia massacres and see who were the loudest voices there. Like I said, they did all they could, short of military attacks.

[juba]

NOGONGE

very well said. the list u have made about the darfur issue and largely the sudan one was well put and the simple, sad truth.

 

OG girl

look at that list, ESPECIALLY #6 then u will understand what i have been trying to tell u!!!!! yes to ur shock and surprise arabs enslaved blacks!

 

Classique

u misunderstood completeyly! no one thinks arabs r responsible of the worlds calamities. yes some words that have been said sound a little deragatory but not racist as bilan said."Arabophobia" pple are afraid of arabs! looool thats new to me

[NASSIR]

Mutakalim, are you in that category?lol

 

 

Enslavement is not just a past issue. It is still happening mostly in third countries and even in India.

 

 

OG-Girl, i don't like your say that "Blacks enslaving blacks". We were only involved in the trade and not the physical enslavement of blacks, which was an ugly history.

 

 

Since some people are confusing the concept of slavery with the concept of race, particularly the black race. I will post relevant and crucial topic about the "Slave community", clearing the parochial knowledge of slave history.

[Salma]

Wind Talker:- (Classique u misunderstood completeyly! )

 

Really, Did I?! What I saw in your words is what I understood fella. And what I saw is that this topic which is supposed to be about the current tragedy in Darfur is not discussed as it should be (Except 2 or 3 nomads here who are really discussing it right without prejudice or bias). This is what I got from your words (not literally):-

 

1-Sudanese Arabs attacking the Blacks in Darfur. (Why taking us back to the Dark Ages by using the word “Blacks†as if the Sudanese in the North are White Russians and not black too :confused: This is aint ethnical cleansing its like a Civil War and Iam sure 100% there are outsiders who are supporting this war and increasing hate and damages for their own purposes).

 

2- The complete silence of the other Arabs who are not doing anything but watching this tragedy with cold blood (coz as you see it Arabs are supporting the Arabs Sudanese while nobody is supporting the victims in Darfur)

 

3-The Black History of the Arabs regarding the Slavery Trade.

 

4-The Great support of America to the Bosnians and completely disregarded Arabs' support to their Bosnian Brothers.

 

5-Then you call the Qatari News Channel “Al Jazeera†a biased News Channel while the Americans and Westerns News channel that you are taking your information from are not biased.

===========================================

 

A little kid can figure out the prejudice against the Arabs in your words. Then you wondered when I compared the Darfur situation with the Old Somali situation as tribes fights. (Coz I believe its just what happened in Somalia, two blind brothers who are fighting each others without concetrating on the damages and loss, not two different ethnic groups). And when I mentioned the West injustice towards the Islamic World just to clear my point to you. Your replied me “Stick to the topic, Classiqueâ€.

Now you tell me: Who opened the Slavery and the unnecessary talks in first place. Do I have to check my eyes or what?! Am I reading wrong here to understand wrong. Corrrrrrrect me if Iam wrong sir, I would be really pleased to be enlightened.

 

You said not to take the discussion from the personal view and discuss it from the political side, d’accord:-

 

I wonder why all the fights, wars and any other internal problem in the Arabs Lands considered always as Arabs Vs. Non-Arabs (whoever living in their lands). Certainly we don’t want for Darfur to become another Halabjah (The Kurdi Massacre in Iraq, coz many people consider it as Arabs Vs. Kurds. While it was in reality a Criminal President vs. his whole nation whether they are Arabs, Kurds, Shiites, Sunnis, Assyrians, Christians…etc. Unfortunately, nobody really understood it exactly right. And till now your so-called liberal & tolerant West records and sources show the matter as Arabs Vs Kurds. The same happened in 1912-1916 in the Armenian Massacre (Arabs vs. Armenians).

 

Nobody is justifying the Sudani Government mistakes, hell no. They did mistakes just like any other government in this world. Politics is not always good and clean. But I disagree with you when you consider all this tragedy caused by them and referring to them as Arabs murderers. I believe its like Ngonge have said: There are many sides to this story and many players.

 

Bottomline Whoever wants to judge this crisis should be fully aware of it. Try to get the full picture and don’t blame on side alone.

 

Ma fahamtay?

[NGONGE]

OG-Girl, i don't like your say that "Blacks enslaving blacks". We were only involved in the trade and not the physical enslavement of blacks, which was an ugly history.

 

 

Since some people are confusing the concept of slavery with the concept of race, particularly the black race. I will post relevant and crucial topic about the "Slave community", clearing the parochial knowledge of slave history.

This I’d love to read. Heh.

Looking forward to your historical facts, saaxib.

[- Femme -]

The Janjaweed militias, Muslim like the African groups they attack, have destroyed mosques, killed Muslim religious leaders, and desecrated Qorans belonging to their enemies.

Government forces oversaw and directly participated in massacres, summary executions of civilians-including women and children—burnings of towns and villages, and the forcible depopulation of wide swathes of land long inhabited by the Fur, Masalit and Zaghawa

The attackers portray themselves as 'Arabs,' the civilians being attacked are called 'blacks' or even 'slaves.'"

Its Rwanda all over again. How many more have to die before something is done? It is a genoicide...and just like the case in Rwanda...people are refusing to acknowledge it as such.

[LANDER]

A lot of Hoop-la is being made about all this, don't get me wrong what is happening in Darfur is very wrong and merits intervention. The Sudanese government should be held accountable for any implication in this conflict, however one cannot overlook at the deliberate attempt by the US to over-simplify this crisis. The word GENOCIDE is being used very lightly in this case by international standards and Colin Powell is the only prominent international figure to have done so and one has to wonder why? In the early 80's, over 100 000 East Timorese were killed by the Indonesian government without a sigh from the West and the US even augmented its military aid to Indonesia. Prominent intellectuals such as Noam Chomsky even went to testify in front of the UN committees on the deplorable situation in East Timor, yet the west still turned a blind eye. The Darfur figure of killed stands between 60 000-70 000 by most estimates so a comparable figure to that in East Timor, why wasn't the East Timorese situation labeled a "Genocide"? In Somaliland in the late 80's over 60 000 people by modest estimates were slaughtered in the Attacks on the major cities and over 500 000 displaced. Similar to the Darfur situation in Sudan, the conflict involved two Muslim populations so-called Muslims and it involved an ethnic or tribal conflict, why wasn't it labeled a Genocide? Could it be the US has special interest in Sudan? Did it have an important economic relation with the government of Suharto in Indonesia? Did major American oil companies sign contracts for exploration with Siad Barre? Some of you who are quick to regurgitate what is fed to you in the western medias, and yes that includes the newspapers and online sources should perhaps try to read some books on the background of the particular situation you wish to criticize. Perhaps than you might have an appreciation for the complexities of International politics and be more modest and guarded in your affirmations.

 

p.s. by the way the situation in Rwanda involved the systematic slaughter of 1 million in a little over a 1 weeks time. The figures for this crisis are more readily available because there were so-called "peacekeepers" on the ground at the time this genocide took place.

[Blessed]

^^Well said. All media out-lets have theirown gain and agenda. Funnily enough, I went to aljazeera.net and they seem to be getting mixed messages. But unlike others; they are very open about it and question what theyre being told by all sides.

 

 

:confused: I thought people only got group minded in issues pertaining to Somali politics BUT I thought wrong.

 

It's funny how the Nomads with Arab affiliation defend the arabs to death and those who don't have Arab connections support their African brothers in blaming everything on Arabs. :confused:

 

 

Whatever the history and whatever the decent of the Northern tribes of Sudan. It remains a Sudani / Muslim issue. Lives are lost, people abused, misplace and homes are destroyed: lets not trivialise it.

[wind.talker]

It ain't Muslim v. Muslim. The Southern Sudanese who've fled to Darfur and made the region a crisis center are mostly believers in Christianity or local African beliefs.

 

CLASS -

 

You telling me the Northern Sudanese see eye-to-eye with their Southern brethren? Southern Sudanese are Blacks and the Northerners are Arabs. Call them Black to their face and they'll put you in your rightful place of Cabid!

 

Where are the non-Black refugees of this war? Sudanese air force planes continually pound cities in the South because they're rebel strongholds. If this just and fair government of al-Bashir looks at this issue as a civil war, why do they arm and support one side (the Arab supremacist North)?

 

You say I'm biased yet all I've done is tell you what should be an obvious fact. Every story out of Sudan is Black people being maimed, robbed, killed and their cities pillaged by Arab intruders.

 

This ain't nothing new: "The hostility of southerners toward the northern Arab majority surfaced violently when southern army units mutinied in August 1955 to protest their transfer to garrisons under northern officers. The rebellious troops killed several hundred northerners, including government officials, army officers, and merchants. The government quickly suppressed the revolt and eventually executed seventy southerners for sedition. But this harsh reaction failed to pacify the south, as some of the mutineers escaped to remote areas and organized resistance to the Arab-dominated government of Sudan." SOURCE: Library of Congress, "Sudan: A Country Study"

http://memory.loc.gov/frd/cs/sdtoc.html

Click on subtitle: "The South and the Unity of Sudan"

 

Ever since that day, the Southern Sudanese (mostly Blacks) have been fighting a Northern Arab-dominated government and the Arab supremacists in power have sworn to continue a racial war that has transcended the line of morality. Yet YOU continue to support these Cowards in Khartoum! Give me a break!

 

LANDER -

 

I don't think the act of classifying a "genocide" has anything to do with the number of dead people. Sudan, esp southern Sudan, has a lotta oil potential so its natural that it stays the center of geopolitical attention. And fits into the greater context of the extermination of all regimes allied to elements the West considers as terrorists!

[OG_Girl]

For these who blame Arabs for every thing and every chance they get!:

 

Civil wars have taken the lives of thousands in Africa every year, But why suddenly western media care about African Suddanese?!!If the USA cared about the human lives , they wouldn't ignore Saddam when he gassed Kurdish (Oooh yeah I forgot that Kurdish were Muslims!!).

 

Now they telling us that what is going on in Darfur is a racial issue!and it is Nothern-Arab vs Black-African, but that is not true. Its all for oil. The war is economic war. So stop blaming Arabs every single thing going on in this World!

 

America is the #1 who violating human rights and takes innocent lives every day in Iraq and Palastine!.

 

What is going on in Darfur is indeed disaster but nothing compared to what happened and still happing in Palastine! Where western media about that?!!!

 

Ajeeb wallahi!

 

PS: I am not defending Sudan Goverment here but I have all right to question American true intentions behind it ... :rolleyes:

 

Edit:

 

Mr Talker,

 

To correct your baised information, Darfur is a huge area and most of its inhabitants -if not all-are Muslims. So the war as Ameenah said is Muslim brother killing another Muslim!I myself do not care what religion any person is or their origin.The reason of the war simply is human greed from all sides whom involved with it!.

 

Salam

[NGONGE]

^^^ Discussions become meaningless when your opponent is unsure or what their argument is. Wind talker has set his stall to be anti-Arab and that’s how he’s going to carry on with his argument in spite of all available evidence and overwhelming proof.

 

This Arab hatred is worth a thread of it’s own. We need to know the roots and causes of such hatred.

[OG_Girl]

^^ I'M SECOND TO THAT!!

 

I am really intrested to know why Somalis , well let me not generize here, have so much hate toward Arabs!!?

 

I admit that I am pissed off and tired of this Arab bashing !!

 

Come on people spill the beans and tell me why you so much-most without reason-hate Arabs!! :confused:

 

Isn't racism to hate and spread lies about Arab cause just they are Arab?

 

Salam

[Haddad]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

We need to know the roots and causes of such hatred.

The roots and causes of such hatred have a historical background. I have a feeling it's buried deep down in the subconscious, maybe even lost. Most of those who express such hatred cannot come up with a reasonable explanation.

 

Originally posted by OG_Girl:

I am really intrested to know why Somalis , well let me not generize here, have so much hate toward Arabs!!?

It's my observation only certain groups of Somalis have personal issues with Arabs. For example, the Somali Bantus, the people who live around Baydhabo region and the Somali Bajunis have no personal issues with Arabs. There are some individuals from those certain groups of Somalis who got no personal issues with Arabs.