Social Solutions Al Shabab Government Can Learn from Secular Father Of Turkey

[Nur]

Yaa Ghaaliya yaa LazieG

 

First of all let me express my great admiration, you are natural debater and eNuri and Company believes that you should be crowned as The Reigning Queen of SOL Islam Page Controversial Debates.

 

I could not stop smiling as I read your last response, and I applaud you for sharing your speedy opinions without wearing a seat belt, if there was a debating analogue of Formula One car races, I felt overtaken by Michael Schumacher, the only difference being that Mike is predictable when he turns corners, yours are very sharp and stealthy at that, you even drive outside of the racing track on the green turf, turning fast corners leaving me behind your exhaust fumes unable to see where you are coming from. I am stopping my Ferrari and offer to teaming up with you, or may be, make peace with you so that we compromise on this: Neither the Shabab nor the TFG should rule Somalia, instead, lets champion a fresh face, like Lazie G, and of course you need me as your Formula one, side mechanic for quick services before going back on track!

 

Ok, let me get this straight yaa Ghaalya

 

1. You say : "my personal view on this is that religion should be separate from the state"

 

A simple Question, If Lazie G becomes Somalia's FEDERAL President, and the UN Designated Secular parliament of Gayland province approves gay marriages in Somalia with a slim majority, as the Federal Sovereign of the secular nation, will you approve such a motion if the Supreme Federal Constitutional Court of Somalia approves it?

 

2. You say: ...."I want my country back(sounding like a teabagger) and if it means getting help from Brundi forces or Ugandas or Nigerians tomorrow or whoever is willing to lend a hand to this deficient administration and if thats what I must do, so be it, I am ready.

 

" I adore Sharif, I still feel the same way I felt about him when he was with the ICU"

 

 

Yaa ghaalya, who stole your country from your adorable Shareef? your Ethiopian brothers or the terrible Shabab!?

 

 

3. You say: " Matter of fact, I want Melez (now that he is elected for another term) to aid the administration and help them arm themselves again by sending troops to clean up Mogadishu. (when the axmaaro were present, we didnt have suicide bombers roaming the city freely)"

 

 

So, you are inviting back your brother Meles Zenawi, the Humanitarian and Kind Ally of Somalia who kept his goodwill soldiers in Mogadishu over 2 years helping the poor and needy and protecting them from the evil of the Shabab terrorists. Wouldn't that be so kind of you as the next President of the Federal Secular Somali Nation?

 

 

4. You say: As far as your question about which is better, "secularism or Islam" is inconceivable, waayo, Islam is a religion and it can in no way be compared to a concept such as Secularism. I'm baffled by the uncertainty in your query yaa Nur.

 

Yaa Ghaaliya, Secularism is at odds with Islam, they are mutually exclusive, you can't be a Muslim and Secular at the same time, acceptance of either one, automatically implies the rejection of the other.

 

 

5. You Say: When the shabaabs have maimed, killed innocent bystanders, robbed women and children of their dignity, left them homeless and with ailing children to look after, you have left nothing for these civilians, not one shred of dignity and if you dont think thats worth a cease fire then you and I are further apart than I can care to admit and for that, I was wrong about you or was I?

 

Yaa Ghaaliyah, can you put your hand on Holy Quraan and say that statement under oath if you have Iman? just YES or NO for this question. Throwing words around does not befit you, choose your words more carefully sis, washing the hands of the TFG, the Ethiopians and the Warlords in the TFG who held Somalia hostage for 20 years, and accusing it all on the Shabab is not fair assessment of the situation if you aspire to lead Somalia one day.

 

6. You say: In summary, you are saying, "we will not put our arms down and agree to a cease-fire" because the so called "ugandan mercenaries" will kill us. You are saying" we will not stop throwing rockets from populated areas because we are justified in our PR propaganda".

 

No Yaa Ghaaliyah, that is not what I am saying, The Shabab are not worried about being killed for the sake of their faith, actually they seek martyrdom. What I am saying is that assisting a rapist in your house raping your sister is not a good idea, specially when you ask the same rapist, Melez to come back once more to Somalia to rape and kill your people so that you can build your dream Secular Somalia Nation in which what is left of religion is kept in private and all imaginable perversions are legalized (of course with AU and UN mandate)

 

 

Nur

[burahadeer]

Debating about sanity is a lost cause.Some died,some will die,but in the end the fiercely

independent nomad will reclaim himself,sooner rather than later.Let us see who laughs last.It's a waiting game--just that,a waiting game.

[Nur]

burahadeer writes:

 

 

Let us see who laughs last. It's a waiting game--just that, a waiting game !

 

 

Allah Says in Holy Quraan, Surah Al Mutafifeen:

 

34. But this Day (the Day of Resurrection) those who believe will laugh at the disbelievers

 

35. On (high) thrones, looking (at all things).

 

36. Are not the disbelievers paid back (fully) for what they used to do (To Believers)?

 

 

Allah further says in Quraan, Surah Hood

 

121. And say to those who do not believe: "Act (according to your ability and way), We are acting (on our capacity)

 

122. And you wait ! We (too) are waiting."

 

 

Nur

[burahadeer]

Originally posted by Nur:

burahadeer writes:

 

 

Let us see who laughs last. It's a waiting game--just that, a waiting game !

 

 

Allah Says in Holy Quraan, Surah Al Mutafifeen:

 

34. But this Day (the Day of Resurrection) those who believe will laugh at the disbelievers

 

35. On (high) thrones, looking (at all things).

 

36. Are not the disbelievers paid back (fully) for what they used to do (To Believers)?

 

 

Allah further says in Quraan, Surah Hood

 

121. And say to those who do not believe: "Act (according to your ability and way), We are acting (on our capacity)

 

122. And you wait ! We (too) are waiting."

 

 

Nur

A believer stretching himself ova baby grave yards!!!!

Bring more surahs to cut ur corners!

[genius pauper.]

^^~~~ mob psychology has the lowest degree of rationality. when many say out of their feelings without clear opinions as to why, it makes the whole issue of talking nonsense and results in loss of sight.

 

knowledge should be in full force and should trigger the reasoning.

 

the problem sets in when some muslims dont know, what makes someone a muslim and what not and failing to know exactly what being a muslim entails. no sane muslim shall ever advocate for secularism or western ways of living, ONLY IF THEY KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN.

 

 

p.s irrespective of who thinks what, islam is the only true way of living. and come what may, it shall raise and rule.period

[burahadeer]

You will not get Islamic state peacefully & with the consent of the people----SO YOU TRY WITH THE BARREL OF THE GUN.You will never get it--so keep talking.The fact u took the gun to make the end justifies the means,itself shows your treacherous mission.

Talk is cheap.Let us stay tuned.

Mob psycology fits the gun trotters.No rationale & my way is the only way.

[LayZie G.]

@formula one and the feeling is mutual ya nur.

 

Marka kale, I'm glad you brought up the question about the 'alternative lifestyle" as I can not call it anything else, waayo, I believe that a union should exist between a man and a woman, not woman and woman or man and man, therefore I will give you the long and short answer.

 

The short answer is the case will not reach the high court because such voting on the local level will be considered unconstitutional.

 

 

Waayo:

 

The long answer to your first question will be as follows:

 

The composition of the court will not just be limited to the appointment of career lawyers/judges with liberal views, instead it will be diversified and have Islamic Jurists appointed alongside. In turn, it will assure the Umma that a fair judgement is reached on cases that fall under the jurisdiction of the court.

 

On the one hand, it will not fall under the jurisdiction of the high court as its a local issue and will not be problematic. On the other hand, we have the Qur'an on our-side, which forbids alternative lifestyle choices.

 

In the Quran, it explicitly stated that relationship between men and women can only exist in marriage, therefore forbidding promiscuity, homosexuality, etc, etc

 

In addition, we will make sure that the Somali constitution is consistent with the basic Islamic beliefs and concepts, making it illegal for such voting to take place on the local level and if it does reach the high court(through a loophole, in a civil or criminal manner), our court will not decide in favour of our local governments(tuulos) defining what marriage is, instead it will set precedent in such a way that the text will be explicit in detailing how a marriage is defined, which will be consistent with how the qur'an defines a marriage not the individual.

 

 

....and I cant help but laugh@the rest of your questions but answer me this one question:

 

 

 

 

 

Who should take responsibility for firing the mortar shells that injured that little angel on the picture who is struggling with her breathing and have to be fed through a tube? WHo should I blame for the death of her family members and the thousands others that face the same predicament and the hundreds that already died from mortar injury? who? You tell me? give me names

 

 

PS: I have no desire to seek public office now or in the future, especially in Somalia. The private sector suits me just fine. (one family member is enough)

[Nur]

Lazie G sis

 

You write:

 

The short answer is the case will not reach the high court because such voting on the local level will be considered unconstitutional.

 

Answer: How can it be UNCONSTITUTIONAL sister if the people of Sodomyland adopt it locally and as I said the constitution approves it?

 

 

You write:

 

On the other hand, we have the Qur'an on our-side, which forbids alternative lifestyle choices. .... On the one hand, it will not fall under the jurisdiction of the high court as its a local issue and will not be problematic. On the other hand, we have the Qur'an on our-side, which forbids alternative lifestyle choices.

 

Answer: Isn't the State a Secular State? How dare you quote Quraan in a secular State? how about the rights of Somali Christians and Atheists, do you really understand what Secularism means? if even today's Somalis are against Sodomy marriages, under Democracy, what will stop sodomy if it gets support from the UN , USA and EU who will demand if Somalia does not recognize Sodomy Marriages, that it will be classified like the Shabab and Taliban repressive regimes? what will stop them to get a UN mandate to send Volunteer American Gay Soldiers to stand up with their brothers and sisters in Somalia? will you stand up to these powers if it gets to that level? hana I dhihin "ma dhaceyso" yaa Ghaaliyah, because Secularism is a trap, once IN, you can't get OUT, better hold to your principles before being told that you have agreed to it.

 

 

You write: Who should take responsibility for firing the mortar shells that injured that little angel on the picture who is struggling with her breathing and have to be fed through a tube?

 

Answer: The Shabab never target populated areas, its the cowardly Ugandan and Burundi troops who have fired these shells in heavily populated areas, claiming that they are striking back at freedom fighters. Major responsibility on this crime falls on the shoulder of the USA and EU who pay the funding for the ailing TFG who are on a similar life support of their own and who only exist because the USA wants them to fight the Shabab group the USA doesn't like, not because they can harm USA an iota, because we all know that is a big joke, America with over 4000 nuclear warheads is afraid of Shabab? but because their main crime is speaking freely against the USA policies in the Muslim world which is a taboo not allowed in a "free Democratic world"

 

you write:

 

....and I cant help but laugh@the rest of your questions

 

Answer: You mean the funny REPORT of Ethiopian Soldiers helping Somali girls in Western Somalia? or the funnier Report Ethiopian Soldiers slaughtering Somalis like goats!, of course it happened "legally" during their friendly stay in Somalia under the cordial invitation of your adorable Sheikh Sharif's TFG government ?

 

Waxaan hubaa inaadan keligaa ku qoslaynin dhibka ummaddeenna heysta!

 

 

Nur

[LayZie G.]

Brother Nur, I strongly advise you to go back on page 2 of this thread and re-read what I wrote.

 

When it comes to the separation of state and religion, I answered it in two folds.

 

On the one hand, I expressed my personal opinion of the subject, which is why I told you that I believed strongly that state and religion should be separated. On the other hand, I expressed to you the need to have compromise.

 

I'm not looking some sort of constitution that explicitly states that we need to preserve the right of individuals over religion and for the state not to profess its preference of Islam nor advocate for plural state.

 

I believe the compromise that the government should put on the table is one which they have already voted on, which is to recognize Islam as a state religion. At the same time I believe that its in the best of interest of all parties involved to recognize some version of Sharia Law and allow it to become one of the sources of legislation of the country and for local governments to be given local autonomy to choose the form of legislation that their tuulo should adopt.

 

Ideally, what I want is different from what I'm advocating that the government officials should adopt.

 

By bringing secularism into the discussion, you are in fact looking a way to get out and not be held accountable for what you support. I told you, you can not equate secularism with Islam, a religion over a concept.

 

I'm not here telling you that we should put culture and language over everything, as quebec constitution dictates. I'm looking for a compromise.

 

You want to legislate morality, which is what this topic was all about and I want the bloodshed of civilians to stop gushing on the streets of hamar.

 

You want to blame melez for all your problems(along with the United States), I want your boys exterminated for what they have done to civilians and what they continue to do so.

 

As for the picture of the little girl, by now you should know better than to start pointing fingers.

 

Unlike you, I blamed both sides and when calls came from independence sources blaming one side for the destruction of civilians, its something worth looking into but you can't ask me to refrain from making outlandish charges only for you to turn around and do the same thing. You just blamed AU forces for this girl's injury and absolved your homeboys from any criminal wrong doing? (atleast be consistent ya nur)

 

 

Remember at the beginning of this discussion I said I believed in you to be objective but only if you wanted to be? So what happened? Dont leave me hanging ya nuur...

 

 

PS: Isn't it a good idea to establish security before you worry about gay soldiers that the UN may or may not send? How did we get to UN sending soldiers? This is why I'm laughing at your answers and line of questioning because of the absurdity thats at the centre of it.

[burahadeer]

What a nonesense!Gays have no place in somalia-whether secular or not.Talking real issues!!!!

No dictatorship under any name is going to come- Shabab & the likes have no chance what so ever-that's if u follow the reality on the ground.

Let us stay tuned---everything else is he said,she said.

[Nur]

Lazie G

 

You write: By bringing secularism into the discussion, you are in fact looking a way to get out and not be held accountable for what you support. I told you, you can not equate secularism with Islam, a religion over a concept.

 

Answer: I did not bring secularism to the discussion, you did, here is what you wrote: "my personal view on this is that religion should be separate from the state"

 

Separation of Religion and Politics is the simplest definition of Secularism. As for my opinion and what I think is right, since when did we made it a crime for a person to support Islam? because that is the only principle that I fully support with all of my mind and heart.

 

 

You write: You want to blame melez for all your problems(along with the United States), I want your boys exterminated for what they have done to civilians and what they continue to do so.

 

Answer: So your brother Meles Zenawi has nothing to do with Somalia's problems? Insteadt you want Melez TO GO BACK TO SOMALIA TO EXTERMINATE THE SHABAAB FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO CIVILIANS? It never occurred to me that you see the Shabaab as pests! and Melez as CEO of a Pest Control Company! so you can have your cake and eat it too! in your new hybrid Sharia-cum-secular dream house ! . The Chinese have a saying: Man open mouth too long before fried duck fly in his mouth

 

 

You write: PS: Isn't it a good idea to establish security before you worry about gay soldiers that the UN may or may not send? How did we get to UN sending soldiers? This is why I'm laughing at your answers and line of questioning because of the absurdity thats at the centre of it.

 

Answer: Its not a good idea to build your house on a cliff, not looking beyond your nose can get you in a bigger trouble later on, so its prudent to survey the terrain and the landscape on which you plan to build your house.

 

Allah SWT teaches us in Holy Quraan, Surah Tawbah verse 109-110 : Is it then he, who laid the foundation of his building on piety to Allah and His Good Pleasure, better, or he who laid the foundation of his building on an undetermined brink of a precipice ready to crumble down, so that it crumbled to pieces with him into the Fire of Hell. And Allah guides not the people who are the Zalimun (Unjust, transgressors, oppressors).

 

110. The building which they built will never cease to be a cause of hypocrisy and doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. (i.e. till they die). And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise

 

 

As you have admitted earlier on the thread, that you have short memory or attention to details, here is how the UN will enforce an International Law on any weak country ( Powerful countries walk away with murder all the time)

 

1. Somali Government accepts Democracy, separation of Religion and Politics and protection of minority rights.

2. UN observers attend to make sure that voting is fair.

3. UN gives Somalia a good rating.

4. UN funds and demands formation of civil societies to represent minority rights in Somalia to become a true Democracy.

5. Parliament votes in favor of the formation of civil societies.

6. The UN sends a list of organizations that need to have an advocacy NGO. the list includes "Laga roonayaasha"!

7. Initially there will be a hesitation in parliament, but after a while, it will be slowly accepted just like in USA and Europe since they are your model to follow.

 

 

Nur